Circumcision ban is the 'worst attack on Jews since Holocaust'

people saying the child should be allowed to grow up and choose, doesnt the pain increase by like a 100000%?

people saying the child should be allowed to grow up and choose, doesnt the pain increase by like a 100000%?

I don't mean to fuel the terrible holocaust denial and deniers here but, on the topic of that, I do find it suspicious that the official Auschwitz sign outside the camp put there in 1948 in memory of those that died were completely edited from 4 million down to 1.5 million after the Soviets released the official records in '89. That and Hoss's testimony that they took the bodies out of the gas chamber 10 minutes after they had gassed them when anyone worth their salt knows that they would have died too, since venting Zyklon B takes a long time. You could assume they were wearing gasmasks but, Hoss's testimony also included the fact that they were smoking while they took the bodies out, that it was that matter of fact of a thing. Considering that Zyklon B, or rather the gas from Zyklon B that was used is both explosive and toxic, we can conclude that at least his testimony was false. It is possible he was trying to bargain a deal out of them, though, by confessing and embellishing. Or maybe he just wanted to sound impressive. From all accounts, the man was a major schizoid.

It's pretty obvious that the ChristianLady account is a troll.

1. Wrong thread. Absolutely wrong.
2. Nice try disguising your holocaust denial like this.
3. All of the facts you listed have plausible reasons. Your assumptions about Zyklon etc. are just plain wrong.

Except, you don't refute it. Really, I don't care all that much. The world won't operate any differently either way.

If you're really interested about data and arguments, this is a nice place to start:

http://www.nizkor.org

It lists claims by holocaust deniers and explains why they are wrong, including all the issues concerning the gas chambers.

That and the change in the sign, which was actually the thing I noticed that piqued my interest in the subject. I've never denied the holocaust happened, just that there are a lot of odd stories surrounding it, the most famous of which being the lampshade made of human skin and the bar of soap which are now generally accepted as fake.

The sign was put there by the Soviets, just another horrible dictatorial system. Western scholars have always rejected that number - yet the overall number of roughly 6 million dead jews is still right.

We are brought into this world through the union of our parents. Their struggle in protecting us, nurturing us, and helping us survive help shape our identity, so that we can even reach the age of being independent. So, if a circumcision is not botched, if a man can have sex and experience pleasure (like my hubby), produce offspring, and live a normal life without his foreskin, than for most people, it is not a big deal at all. Rather, most mature adults tend to focus on and appreciate the sacrifices their parents made for them. On my part, my Mom quit school when she had me. She sacrificed her studies to bring me into this world. Now, there are Moms who don't give up school, but most Moms do actually give up freedom in some way in order to take care of the little life that eventually pops out of their womb. If a circumcision was not botched, why would a man hold a grudge against the mother who cared for him and loved him, even if she allowed him to be circumcised?

There are Jewish people who are circumcised who turn their back on the belief in the G-d of their ancestors. Being circumcised definitely does not decide their religion for them. For Jewish parents who do believe in G-d and the Tanakh, circumcision is simply an act of obedience of the parents, not of the child.

The irony is that the majority of the people it targets are people who believe in God

Again, you have the right to circumcise your baby boy or not. I have the right to circumcise my baby boy or not. I do not have the right to force you to circumcise your child (nor would I want to force you!) You do not have the right to force me to not circumcise my child (regardless of your opinion).

My husband and my father's family do not see male circumcision as a form of abuse. Now, you of course can think it is, but since the men of my family who are circumcised do not see it as abuse, that is their right as well.

Some people see slapping a child in the face as abuse. I do. One of the reasons is because my parents consider it to be a form of abuse. Thankfully, my parents never ever slapped me across the face. However, other people do not consider a slap in the face to be abuse. I personally do not understand that, but it's just an example as to how people define abuse.

My Mom spanked me with a wooden spoon when I was a kid. She did not consider it abuse. I personally did not like that punishment at al. The last time I was spanked was when I was 10 for jumping on the bed. I thought she was so mean! lol. However, nowadays I do not consider my Mom to have physically abused me, though others do because she spanked me. However, I personally do not want to use spankings as a form of punishment when/if I have kids. I like "time-outs" better. However, I do not judge my Mom because

I know she was only doing what she knew in order to help me become a law-abiding citizen. Learning how to obey her laws helped me grow to understand to obey the laws of the USA.)

Parental authority includes the right to raise children up according to one's belief. Since it is already established that male circumcision can actually help in medical issues in regard to the foreskin, male circumcision is not abuse. (Otherwise, many doctors are abusing men who get circumcisions later on in life.)

A name doesn't leave a mark? It could leave an emotional mark. Have you ever heard the song "A Boy Named Sue" by Johnny Cash? It's funny. My Mom loves that song...I've heard it way too many times. Getting children immunized can protect them from future diseases, but you don't even know if they will ever be exposed to those diseases... immunizations for many people, at least in Western countries, is more for "just in case" scenario.

How do you know if the baby boy is not going to have a medical issue with his foreskin later on in life?

I was so mad when one of my little sisters was born and she started crying when the mean ole' nurse did the heel prick. However, as soon as possible, my Mom took my baby sister, nursed her, and my sis seemed perfectly content, just being in our Mom's arms and being loved and held and fed by Mom.

Now, I have never personally seen a circumcision, though I was there when my sis had her 3rd son. I wasn't there when they circumcised him though. However, when TJ came out of my sis (yuck, I almost fainted) he was comforted once my sister held him and started feeding him. I am sure that after he was circumcised, my sister held him in her arms and nursed him.

Babies need that. A circumcised baby boy stops crying when his Mom hold him close to her body and nurses him. He gets comfort from his Mommy who has had him in her womb for 9 months. He already knows his Mom.

So, because I have personally seen the love of a Mom for her baby boy, which I know continues during and after the circumcision, I know the boy is going to be ok, if the circumcision was not botched.

Circumcision for Jewish people who believe in G-d, as well as for Muslims who circumcise their boys, is an act of obedience on part of the parents who have sexually united and thus "created" the new human life.

If one doesn't have water or adequate cleaning methods, that would be an issue hmm? Not everyone has the luxury of regular washing, even in this day and age.

That's why it'd be interesting to hear from men (or women who have personal experience with a man) who got circumcised later on in life.

Sure
...

One complaint about circumcision is that infants have no choice in the matter. The surgery is the first major decision parents make for their sons -- involving the look and performance of the most outward symbol of what will make them men.

Although circumcision -- removal of a man’s foreskin, typically during infancy -- is rooted in cultural tradition (primarily Muslim and Jewish religions), some parents choose to circumcise their sons because they believe it’s “cleaner” or protects against sexually transmitted diseases and health problems.
Is Circumcision Emotionally Damaging?
As I discuss in my new book A Woman’s Guide to Men and Their Penis Problems, circumcision is currently a very controversial issue. Critics argue that circumcision is painful, may have psychological or emotional consequences, and dulls a man’s sexual sensation by removing the foreskin, which is rich in nerve endings. While evidence is mixed, some studies suggest that circumcision may reduce the risk of urinary-tract infections, penile cancer and sexually transmitted diseases including HPV and HIV. Other research shows no such benefits."

Now when "Circumcision:Is it Worth it?" was written, about 75% percent of American men have been circumcised. My male family members is in this number, and are fine. Most circumcised American don't go around moaning about being circumcised. They are fine with it. How can you tell? Because most Americans complain when they are not fine with something, and the majority of American circumcised men are fine. Many of them are actually "playboys" you could say, and have no problem enjoying sex or having babies or living fulfilling lives.

Are you judging their parents for circumcising them?

I think it's connected because 9 months in the womb plus 8 days out is still not even a year in a human's life. It's cool that you are personally pro-life. I agree with you there.

Thanks. All the best to you and your loved ones too!

Oh, I am going write one last post on this thread, and then I plan to only reply about circumcision on the thread concerning it in the religious section, since this thread has basically become a gang-up-on-Christianlady thread lol

Peace