The Rugby Union Society

LieDown

Haha by the way thank you for the rep Ethereal! :biggrin:

Strangely enough I get most of mine from the rugby threads. But anyway: yay!

What do people think of Brian Ashton being kept on?

I don't really know what to make of it.

I mean we can judge Ashton latterly upon his performance in the later stages of the World Cup - which he really seemed to turn it around. This therefore makes it easy to forget the disaster that was before the World Cup and the first few games etc etc... then again that may just have been his inheritance of Robinson's regime.

I think the 6 Nations will be crucial in defining how he will be judged over the next few years, I mean, it's a selection process where he needs to really showcase the new talent and show what he and his staff can do, to change us from 6 Nations 3rd Placers to Grand Slam winners...

I support him for this and hope he'll make the right choics and have confident English rugby will pick up over the next few years again, we've got a lot of talent coming through!

Reply 1382

Ethereal

OP

19

Did Ashton really turn it around, or was it the players?

Reply 1383

Ethereal

Did Ashton really turn it around, or was it the players?

How can we possibly tell? We realistically know sod all about anything bar what happened on the pitch.

Reply 1384

Consie

15

i seen cipriani play the other week and i agree he is a quality fly half. i think its stewart barnes who keeps going on about him and getting jonny out. id still have jonny at the mo, and maybe only open the space up more closer to the world cup, though i still reckon jonny would be the daddy at 32. ciprani has great distribution, as does hodgson and goode, but if you watch jonny, he fizzes em off with just as much finesse. i sort of agreed with dayglo when he said jonny needed to be at wasps or something instead of newcastle, even after teh all black disphoria to the premiership and people like hayman are playing for falcons nowadays.

i cant remember who they were playing the other week, but ciprani took the piss, i think he got man of the match.

Reply 1385

Think it was his first half display against Clermont Auvergne.....sadly he wasn't particularly great in the second half.

Likewise, I'd still have Jonny there......but have Cipriani on the bench to give him a good 20/30 minutes towards the end of at least one 6 Nations match, see what kind of impact he can have.

Reply 1386

Ethereal

OP

19

bikerx23

How can we possibly tell? We realistically know sod all about anything bar what happened on the pitch.

That was precisely my point (see the person posting above who said Ashton turned it around).

Reply 1387

LieDown

Jason Robinson got an OBE!! I'm so pleased! He is such a fantastic player, he definitely deserves it.
And Brian Ashton getting an MBE was good too, but yay Billy Whizz with an OBE!!

Reply 1388

TKnightrider

I believe we were very lucky to get to the final of the RWC 2007. We had had string of defeats before the RWC and we were all over the place. There seemed to be no order at all within the side. I truly believe the RWC came at the right time but was both good and bad for us.

It made the England team get a grip as well as the coaches. I think the whole team thought if we get a grip, we can get better and do good things. Now I knew from the start we weren't going to win because the RWC came too soon after the reforms in the team and the mess we were in.

However, this RWC has shown the sectors we have to improve on. It will take time as it has with previous teams. Take Wales for instance. They have taken at least a decade to get it right and I believe they are serious competition for us.

The next 3 and a bit years are the most crucial for England. We need to address the issues we had before and after the RWC and get it sorted in the friendlies as well as the 6 Nations.

In the next RWC we have to be ready. We will be a side again. If were not then we will need more than luck and a few inspirational speeches to get our fingers out.

Thanks for reading. :smile:

Reply 1389

username115564

16

So what does everyone think the team should look like the 6 nations? Out with the old in with the new, or keep continuity untill younger players have matured?

Reply 1390

TKnightrider

JW

So what does everyone think the team should look like the 6 nations? Out with the old in with the new, or keep continuity untill younger players have matured?

A good question. In my opinion i believe we should mix it up. Like an apprenticeship. Lol. Senior players leading the way with the younger players following behind.

Reply 1391

A mixture of the above really.

Front Row: Andrew Sheriden - Mark Regan - Phil Vickery
2nd Row: Simon Shaw - Ben Kay
Back Row: Lewis Moody - James Haskell - Martin Corry

9: Andy Gomarsall (as Ellis is still injured, poor chap)
10: Jonny Wilkinson
12: Toby Flood (possibly Barkley in a 12 Role?)
13: Dan Hipkiss

11: David Strettle
14: Paul Sackey
15: Josh Lewsey

Subs:
Danny Cipriani
Matthew Tait
Mark Cueto
Anthony Allen
Dylan Hartley
Matt Stevens
Nick Easter
Tom Palmer
Mike Tindall
Dallalgio (if he doesn't retire)

Would be probably how I'd do it - probably missed out quite a few though lol

Fluety available at centre at the end of the year a possibility for next seasons though!

Reply 1392

Jimi Haze

A mixture of the above really.

Front Row: Andrew Sheriden - Mark Regan - Phil Vickery
2nd Row: Simon Shaw - Ben Kay
Back Row: Lewis Moody - James Haskell - Martin Corry

9: Andy Gomarsall (as Ellis is still injured, poor chap)
10: Jonny Wilkinson
12: Toby Flood (possibly Barkley in a 12 Role?)
13: Dan Hipkiss

11: David Strettle
14: Paul Sackey
15: Josh Lewsey

Subs:
Danny Cipriani
Matthew Tait
Mark Cueto
Anthony Allen
Dylan Hartley
Matt Stevens
Nick Easter
Tom Palmer
Mike Tindall
Dallalgio (if he doesn't retire)

Would be probably how I'd do it - probably missed out quite a few though lol

Fluety available at centre at the end of the year a possibility for next seasons though!

I'd sort of agree with that. I don't think we should be playing with Regan at hooker - I know it's a dirty word in international rugby, but it's important to blood new players - that's why it's useful to have Hartley on the bench. realistically though, it is debatable that Regan will play after the end of this season, so unless England are in crisis, Regan should not be playing.
I wouldn't play Flood at 12 either - I hope it isn't only me who thinks this, but especially with Jonny at 10, you need someone who is rock solid in defence at 12 - Ashton said before the RWC that he was encouraging the back row to push jonny out of the way and take the tackles in the 10 channel - it cannot help to have a weak defender on the other side of him too. Perhaps Barkley as you say or Allen would be good in that role, or, although I'm not a fan of this at all, everyone seems to love the idea of Lewsey at 12.

As far as the bench goes - it's good to blood players such as Cipriani - considering thir current form, Wales should be an easy game, which would be a good opportunity to give players and edgy first cap. I'd also like to see Balshaw on the bench since he always seems busy when coming on with 20 to go.

Reply 1393

That's the thing though, Jonny isn't defensively weak in my book - he can make the huge hits needed - I guess the only problem is that there is the probable chance he'll get injured doing this. I know what you mean about having Flood at 12 there - it's kinda why I put Hipkiss at 13 to give him a bit more support.

I don't think Lewsey could play 12, he's not got the brain to play there - he's more of a 'give him the ball, let him pick his own line and charge' type of guy IMO, rather than an excellent distributor (like Flood or Barkley etc). Then again if Cipriani actually learns to tackle properly he could be another option at 12 - quite similar to Flood and Barkley, just with more flair....and less experience lol.

About Regan - I havn't really got a clue lol, forwards aren't really my thing as I'm a back; but it seems like it's between him and Chuter for the Hooker place until Hartley gets promoted into the Premiership with Northampton or finds himself a club where he's playing against better teams. Sure he's storming with Northampton at the moment but is that 'cos they're in Division 1?!

Reply 1394

LieDown

Can't wait for england v wales! Except I'm at Sussex for a post-admissions day thingy and I think I might miss it!! Damn.

Oh well at least its only Wales. I usually get really frustrated watching those matches cos I'm not too enamoured with the welsh team.

Reply 1395

Jimi Haze

That's the thing though, Jonny isn't defensively weak in my book - he can make the huge hits needed - I guess the only problem is that there is the probable chance he'll get injured doing this. I know what you mean about having Flood at 12 there - it's kinda why I put Hipkiss at 13 to give him a bit more support.

I don't think Lewsey could play 12, he's not got the brain to play there - he's more of a 'give him the ball, let him pick his own line and charge' type of guy IMO, rather than an excellent distributor (like Flood or Barkley etc). Then again if Cipriani actually learns to tackle properly he could be another option at 12 - quite similar to Flood and Barkley, just with more flair....and less experience lol.

About Regan - I havn't really got a clue lol, forwards aren't really my thing as I'm a back; but it seems like it's between him and Chuter for the Hooker place until Hartley gets promoted into the Premiership with Northampton or finds himself a club where he's playing against better teams. Sure he's storming with Northampton at the moment but is that 'cos they're in Division 1?!

Sorry if it's not written more obviously - I mean that the main benefit of playing Jonny at 10, as you pointed out before, is his defence, which others dont have. If you have someone like flood who is defensively weak on his outside shoulder, this will cancel out this positive, hence it's weakening the team - Barkley for example is a much stronger tackler. Another option would be to play Hipkiss at 12 and Tait at 13 - they both play this position for their club, and Tait's running is what England really need.

You could also have Farrel at 12 if you wanted, since he'd be around for a couple of years and the experience him and Ashton both have in League means that there is potential for the set up and English rugby in general to learn a lot from them - if you look at the impact that Robinson's skills made it would certainly be a wise experimentation.

With regards to Rugby in Brighton, there are televisions everywhere, so get your priorities sorted.

Reply 1396

Farrel should be no where near an England shirt after Pre-World Cup and World Cup performances.

Reply 1397

Jimi Haze

Farrel should be no where near an England shirt after Pre-World Cup and World Cup performances.

I wouldn't go that far - he did show a lot of promise as an impact sub when he did in the WC (although Catt was better), and his for for Saracens since has been amazing.

Reply 1398