The Student Room Group

Nature vs nurture

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Reply 20
Original post by Tuerin
As a wild stab in the dark, I'd say someone who is proven to have committed a crime :wink:


That was actually a very good question. How do you define what a crime is? How do you define the boundaries? Who is to have the authority to define the boundaries? I think you'll find that it is pretty tricky to have an absolutist moral stance on anything. What we define as criminal behaviour is arbitrarlily labeled by societies.
I think you missed the point of the question, seeing as your answer seems to be pretty pointless.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by s.aley
That was actually a very good question. How do you define what a crime is? How do you define the boundaries? Who is to have the authority to define the boundaries? I think you'll find that it is pretty tricky to have an absolutist moral stance on anything. What we define as criminal behaviour is arbitrarlily labeled by societies.
I think you missed the point of the question, seeing as your answer seems to be pretty pointless.


I didn't miss anything, you are creating complications which don't exist. The emboldened text confuses moral law with criminal law. Who said anything about morality? I think you'll find they're very different things. A crime is an action or lack of action which goes contrary to law. It really is that simple; you seem intent on over-complicating it.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Tuerin
I didn't miss anything, you are creating complications which don't exist. The emboldened text confuses moral law with criminal law. I think you'll find they're very different things. A crime is an action or lack of action which goes contrary to law. It really is that simple; you seem intent on over-complicating it.


But it seems pretty obvious that the OP was not talking about why people break the law, but why people commit certain acts which are considered moral evils.
How are you construing this:

Original post by Farm_Ecology
But it seems pretty obvious that the OP was not talking about why people break the law, but why people commit certain acts which are considered moral evils.


From this:

Do you believe a person is born a criminal or do you believe that they are nurtured into it by their environment and relationships with people. (PS talking about serious crime Ie serial killers etc)


Mentions of crime, no mentions of 'moral evils'.
Original post by Tuerin
How are you construing this:



From this:



Mentions of crime, no mentions of 'moral evils'.


Exactly my point. They were not asking why people were breaking the law, they were asking why people killed and harmed others (moral evils). The legality of it is irrelevant.
Original post by Farm_Ecology
Exactly my point. They were not asking why people were breaking the law, they were asking why people killed and harmed others (moral evils). The legality of it is irrelevant.


I hope you're a troll.

They most certainly were asking why people break the law.

Here is what they said again, in case you missed it the first time:

Do you believe a person isborn a criminal or do you believe that they are nurtured into it by their environment and relationships with people


How exactly you can say that the 'legality' of this discussion is irrelevant, when the OP has specifically asked us to determine the origin of criminals' divergence with the law is beyond me. At no point did they say anything about morality and yet you seem convinced that is what this discussion hinges on. Killing and harming others may be seen as moral evils by you, but they are also crimes, and the OP has asked us to comment on why people foray into crime, not why people foray into moral evil as you see it. You are confusing the two. Arguably, big business committed huge moral wrong leading up to the 2008 financial crash, however most of them committed no crime. Conversely, killing my grandmother who is dying of an acutely painful terminal illness, while illegal under current law, is arguably not a moral evil. Morality and law are completely different things and the OP has explicitly asked us to comment on the origins of crime, not moral crime - which, as other posters have already posited and which I echo, does not exist, as each person has their own moral code.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 26
Original post by Dragonfly07
You're not born good or bad.

You're only born with certain tendencies towards being good or bad that can be triggered later on by environmental factors.

Many of your genes may never get turned on at all throughout your life and some genes can be triggered only temporarily.


Citations needed
Reply 27
Original post by Tuerin
I didn't miss anything, you are creating complications which don't exist. The emboldened text confuses moral law with criminal law. Who said anything about morality? I think you'll find they're very different things. A crime is an action or lack of action which goes contrary to law. It really is that simple; you seem intent on over-complicating it.


Ok let me rephrase. Do you think you enlightened the person that said 'define a criminal' by saying someone who commits a crime?
I'm assuming a dictionary definition of the term wasn't what the asker was looking for.


Edit: Because you can look in a dictionary for that.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by s.aley
Ok let me rephrase. Do you think you enlightened the person that said 'define a criminal' by saying someone who commits a crime?
I'm assuming a dictionary definition of the term wasn't what the asker was looking for.


Edit: Because you can look in a dictionary for that.


I think I enlightened them by showing them what a stupid question it was.
Reply 29
Original post by Tuerin
I think I enlightened them by showing them what a stupid question it was.


In that case never mind then.

Although i personally think you think its a stupid question because you didn't get the point of the question.

Edit: Your looking at the question from a different angle than that of the asker*
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 30
I believe that some people are born with criminal tendencies, but these will not surface unless under certain conditions. I do believe that nature is important to a person becoming a criminal, but nurture determines whether or not this 'biological destiny' is manifested.
This country went out into the world and fought like demons. We were a wave of destruction, annihilating everything we could not subjugate. Partially nature I think. Perhaps explaining the state of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_country
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 32
Original post by Dragonfly07
You're not born good or bad.

You're only born with certain tendencies towards being good or bad that can be triggered later on by environmental factors.

Many of your genes may never get turned on at all throughout your life and some genes can be triggered only temporarily.

That's true to all the qualities you may have. Your risk of obesity (the Pima people of South American are malnourished and thin, but when they move to America, an obesogenic environment, then about 50% of them develop diabetis, 95% of the time alongside obesity or overweight), your risk of certain cancers, your risk of depression or your chances of being outgoing and happy in life.


More than genetic predispositions, I think that higher complexities are relevant to the discussion, ie psychosis due to altered neural networks, etc.

Actually, this thread seems quite old..
Reply 33
Original post by lulubel
Well, these studies suggest they are born not bred. I suppose nurture can make problems worse though. Maybe it is a bit of both for some people.

But I go more for nature because lots of people have bad upbringings and situations but only a small percentage of people go on to commit these serious crimes.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/08/28/20149676.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/5979198/Psychopaths-are-born-not-bred-according-to-a-new-study.html


They're not studies. They are newspaper reports.
Reply 34
Original post by Tuerin
I didn't miss anything, you are creating complications which don't exist. The emboldened text confuses moral law with criminal law. Who said anything about morality? I think you'll find they're very different things. A crime is an action or lack of action which goes contrary to law. It really is that simple; you seem intent on over-complicating it.


How are laws decided upon?
Original post by Kibalchich
How are laws decided upon?


The legislators we elect decide them
Reply 36
Original post by Tuerin
The legislators we elect decide them


How? What is the process?
Original post by Kibalchich
How? What is the process?


Someone nominates a Bill, MPs debate this and then vote. Please get to your point because I don't want to keep being quoted all evening.
Reply 38
Original post by Tuerin
Someone nominates a Bill, MPs debate this and then vote. Please get to your point because I don't want to keep being quoted all evening.


Point is, its a social process. So asking questions about how this happens appears entirely relevant to me. Criminals are only criminals due to social processes.
Original post by Kibalchich
Point is, its a social process. So asking questions about how this happens appears entirely relevant to me. Criminals are only criminals due to social processes.


You must be more specific. 'Social processes' = zilch. Criminals are criminals because they break the law. Simples

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