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The Official Cambridge Winter Pool 2013 Thread (includes FAQ and Status Reports)

Hi,

This is the FAQ and updates thread for 2013 entry. If you've come through Google in search of information, you need the 2014 Cambridge Winter Pool thread. Best of luck with your application :smile:

So.... your decision letter has arrived, and you have been placed in the Winter Pool... this thread is for you :smile:. It is true that you are in for a bit of a roller coaster ride over the next few days, but people can and do hit the jackpot; even if you don't, being pooled tells you that your application was a good one.

How to make the most of this thread
First of all do post your details and updates as they come in. Everyone is interested :biggrin:. From time to time I will post updates on numbers and outcomes, so giving as much information as you dare is really useful.

Secondly, it really helps if people use the search function, rather than posting the question, to find out if people applying for their subject have been given offers/invited for interview. This avoids cluttering up the thread with repetitive posts, but even better you will get a quick answer!

Thirdly, remember that how people heard about their offer or interview really doesn't mean anything for anyone else. The colleges all work differently, and within that each subject works differently. So, there are lots of possible variations and you cannot read anything into someone else's experience to judge what yours might be. Irrelevant information includes where your surname comes in the alphabet, whether you are an international student or not, whether you *might* have been autopooled, whether they phoned you or emailed you, and whether there's an 'r' in the month.

Finally, don't forget that the TSR people account for less than 10% of the pooled population. It's therefore not necessarily representative, and especially likely to be unrepresentative once you get to college or subject level. For all we know all the Pool offers in your subject went to people who've never heard of TSR and wouldn't post on here if they had :smile:. There are excellent examples of this from the 2012 round: 24 economists reported that they had been pooled, of whom only one said they had been called for re-interview. None of them reported getting an offer, though 12 did tell us they had been unsuccessful. The Cambridge stats, available here, confirm that 26 people were made offers through the Winter Pool - it just so happened that none of them posted on TSR.... The successful historians would appear to have been better represented, however: 54 offers were made through the Winter Pool, of whom 8 posted on TSR. Of the 45 Pool offers for Law, only 4 were reported in last year's thread. [Note that the Cambridge numbers exclude poolees who were taken back by their original college, of whom there were 152 in 2011-12 round.]

The Winter Pool - why, oh why?

The Pool is the mechanism by which Cambridge colleges ensure that all applicants of equivalent standard have a fair chance of an offer. A significant proportion of the offers made each year by Cambridge colleges are to people who have been placed in the Pool, though this varies both by college and subject. In the 2011-12 cycle, almost a third of the offers made for AMES and Arch & Anth were through the Pool; for ASNC, Engineering, and Philosophy the proportion was 16%, and for all subjects it was 21%. (Again, these figures exclude poolees fished by their original colleges.)

How does it work?

All applicants who have been pooled will have been sent a copy of winterpool_2013.pdf, which provides a summary of the process. If you want the detail, have a look at winterpoolofficers2013.pdf. In essence, colleges place applicants in the Pool for one of two reasons: either they want to benchmark people against those applying to other colleges in order make a final decision about them, or they know they definitely can’t take the applicant but think another college might be able to. After the interviews have been completed in December, admissions tutors for each subject participate in moderation discussions, where applicants are compared across colleges so that there is consistency in terms of standards and expectations. This then informs decisions at college level about which applicants should be pooled.

I’ve been placed in the Pool. What do I do now?
First of all, take this as a tribute to quality of your application. No-one ends up in the Pool unless they are considered to meet the required standard. At this stage the issue is capacity in terms of places available, not capability of the applicants. Even if it turns out that you don’t get an offer, being pooled is an achievement in itself. As the statistics I’ve linked to above show, most applicants are rejected outright, and quite a few never even get to the interview stage.

Secondly, get organised. Keep that mobile topped up and make sure your voicemail is working. Check your email - including the spam folders - every few hours (not minutes!). Always have something to write on and with to hand. Wait and hope, but don’t let the rest of your life slide out of control either. Especially if you have exams coming up, try not to let yourself be distracted any more than you can help.

Thirdly, be patient. Every year we get people obsessing about whether they should contact their college. Just don't. It is pointless wasting any energy on even considering this. If you do get in touch with them, you are likely to get a short answer which will not be informative and will do your confidence no good at all.

When will I hear anything?

According to the tutors' guidance, the final interview/offer list will be collated in the Admissions Office and circulated to colleges by 3pm on Saturday 5 January, and the briefing for applicants indicates that no-one should be contacted before then. In practice, however, it has been known for admissions tutors to 'jump the gun' and contact people on the Friday after the Pool has closed. In any event, admissions tutors will certainly contact people over the weekend including Sunday, judging by previous years to make offers or to invite you for re-interview. It will be the college that is now considering your application that will contact you, not the one you applied to originally (or were allocated to if you put in an open application). The exception to this is if your preference college has decided to make you an offer after all.

As the timetable shows, people getting ‘direct’ offers ie without re-interview will be contacted some time between 5 and 14 January. Interview lists will have been agreed by the end of 5 January, and the interviews themselves start on 10 January, so if you are going to be invited to attend you should have heard by 7 January - 8 January at the very latest. International candidates are rarely invited back for re-interview, for obvious reasons.

By the way, if the admissions tutor doesn't get hold of you first time, s/he will try again, or may email you (see below). The decision to make you an offer/invite you for interview has been made, and you won't lose out just because you don't happen to have been able to pick up the call! It is important to check your email (not obsessively, mind you, but regularly, including the spam folders!) as some colleges prefer to use this means to communicate with you, or may email you if they weren't able to get hold of you by telephone.

If I have heard nothing by 15 January, will that mean I’ve been rejected?

If you haven't heard anything at all by 15 January it is unlikely that you have been fished, though not entirely impossible. Every year there are one or two cases where someone gets an offer weeks after everyone else, sometimes without any contact from Cambridge at all between the 'you've been pooled' letter and the offer letter. This is because sometimes colleges interview people from the Pool, and then decide they prefer a candidate they pooled themselves, who didn't get picked up by another college. I emphasise however that these numbers are very small indeed, so the reality is that no news by 15 January is likely to mean a rejection letter is on its way. Most colleges are pretty good about getting their final rejection letters out quickly (they will know by 5 January who hasn't been picked up by another college, and isn't on their own 'pending' list) so most people who have been unlucky will get 'closure' before 15 January. In recent years Cambridge has also updated UCAS much earlier than they used to, which did mean that for some people the first news they had of their rejection showed up on Track.

What are my chances of an offer?
Overall, roughly one in four, though in 2011 and 2012 it was nearer three out of ten. Around 80% of these offers will be ‘direct’ ie made without further interview. Of those who are re-interviewed, about half will get an offer. The overall statistics for TSR poolees are about the same as those for all poolees. This year Cambridge has updated their admissions statistics web page so that you can easily see what proportion of offers for a given subject were made through the Pool, and by which colleges: see here. Points to note:

Cambridge does not publish figures by either college or subject as to how many people got pooled - what we have is the overall number of pooled applicants per year, and a college/subject breakdown showing how many pool offers were made.

There is also no breakdown by fee status - so we can't tell how many of the poolees in a given year were internationals, or whether their success rate was any different from the overall rate.

It appears that there is considerable variation from year to year between colleges as to the numbers pooled, which makes sense as this must be a product both of the general standard as well as numbers applying. If you want a good example of this, check out Jesus for Arch and Anth - you'll see that in 2008 they had a sharp rise in the number of applicants, of whom quite a few got offers through the Pool. There are examples some years of where colleges made most of their offers for that year to pooled applicants.


All of which is another way of saying - you can get an overall sense of your chances of success from the statistics Cambridge publishes, but once we get down to fee status, college, or subject (or any combination of these!) it is truly impossible to give you any idea - particularly as the TSR population is not necessarily representative.

I've been invited to attend for re-interview - can another college still make me a direct offer? Can my original college still make me a direct offer?

No to both.

I've been made an offer by another college, without re-interview - will any other college invite me for interview? Can my original college still make me a direct offer anyway?
No to both.

How will I find out if more than one college wants to interview me?

Usually the colleges will mention that another will be in touch with you as well. They are expected to liaise to ensure that your timings are reasonable, and also to arrange accommodation for you if you need it. If you've been invited to attend for interview with one college and nothing has been said about any other, you are unlikely to get an interview elsewhere; if you haven't heard from a second college within 24 hours, you definitely won't.

I must have been pooled just because I met the ‘auto-pooling’ criteria. Does that mean I have less chance of getting an offer?
No. Some people expend a lot of energy speculating about which Pool category they might be in. This is totally pointless even if you think you know, you are quite likely to be mistaken - your interview may have gone better or worse than you suppose, for example.

I’ve been pooled from a less ‘popular’ college doesn’t this really mean that I stand no chance of an offer?
It is fair to say that the odds are probably less in your favour, but it’s not unheard of for someone to be pooled from Girton, for instance, and get an offer elsewhere.

Does the wording of my ‘you have been Pooled’ letter give any clues about my chances of an offer?
No. Each college writes their letters individually, and it is a waste of time and energy to speculate about the meaning of differences in their wording.

What about these 'open offers' for Medicine?

Some medicine applicants in the Pool will be considered for an open offer. What this means is that any offer made will not be from a named college; if you meet the conditions of such an offer you are guaranteed a place, but you only get to find out which college you'll be going to in the summer, after Results Day. These offers can come through particularly late, judging by previous years' experience, so if you are in this group you are more likely to have to wait for an outcome, one way or the other.

In case you were wondering, the idea is that by making open offers the university can accommodate good candidates even though all the college places are 'full'. Which college you land up in depends on which applicants miss their offers - candidates with open offers who have met the offer conditions are guaranteed a place, so will get those places instead. It is only when all the open offer candidates who met their offer conditions have been allocated a college that people who missed their offer can be considered for any places left over.

If I haven't been fished by another college, can my original college still take me?
Yes, but if they haven't told you so by 8/9 January it's very unlikely indeed. Most people who get fished by their original college don't even know they were pooled in the first place, because it's all sorted out before the decision letters are posted.

I was re-interviewed at another college but they've said I was unsuccessful. Could the college I originally applied to still make me an offer?
No. For another college to have picked you out of the Pool, your original college must have relinquished all claim to you. Their only responsibility now is to confirm your rejection in writing (the college that re-interviewed you is allowed to let you know the outcome, but the official rejection must come from the college you applied to).

I was re-interviewed at another college but they've said I was unsuccessful.
Will/can any other college consider my application now?
No.

After all that, it was a rejection anyway :sad: If you have not been successful, hold on to the fact that by being pooled you know you are of Cambridge standard. Wherever you land up, you have every reason to do well, and may even find that it suits you better than Cambridge would have done. It may not feel like it just now, but there is life after a Cambridge rejection.... as I have good reason to know :tongue:

And finally ... Last year's thread can be found here. A copy of the final report for 2012 is attached to this post.
(edited 10 years ago)

Scroll to see replies

Reply 1
I've just been pooled by Trinity Hall for English. Not quite sure what to feel right now..
Reply 2
I've been pooled by Trinity Hall for CompSci, but it wasn't an Auto-Pool
Original post by unbridled
I've just been pooled by Trinity Hall for English. Not quite sure what to feel right now..


Original post by gregzz
I've been pooled by Trinity Hall for CompSci, but it wasn't an Auto-Pool


Well done guys! It's just a waiting game now but try to focus on other things too - do you have exams coming up? :smile:
Reply 4
Pooled by Homerton for Economics

Original post by gregzz
I've been pooled by Trinity Hall for CompSci, but it wasn't an Auto-Pool


how do you know if it is automatic?
Reply 5
Also pooled by TH for CompSci, not an auto-pool either.
Original post by TPJY
how do you know if it is automatic?


If you meet certain academic conditions, you can find about them here: http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/offices/admissions/handbook/appendices/winterpoolofficers2013.pdf

For A levels if you have a UMS average of 93%+ from your best 3 AS levels then you'll be autopooled, unless you're applying for maths or medicine, and the sciences also just look at science A levels rather than simply the best 3 I believe.
Reply 7
Original post by TPJY
Pooled by Homerton for Economics

how do you know if it is automatic?


My average UMS was 92%, which as explained by oxymoronic is not enough for an auto-pool

Original post by iCiaran
Also pooled by TH for CompSci, not an auto-pool either.


Good luck mate, there is nothing we can do now, just sit and hope(unless you get interview)
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by oxymoronic
If you meet certain academic conditions, you can find about them here: http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/offices/admissions/handbook/appendices/winterpoolofficers2013.pdf

For A levels if you have a UMS average of 93%+ from your best 3 AS levels then you'll be autopooled, unless you're applying for maths or medicine, and the sciences also just look at science A levels rather than simply the best 3 I believe.


What if your UMS is 92.8% out of interest, do you think they would round it up to 93%?
Reply 9
Original post by oxymoronic
Well done guys! It's just a waiting game now but try to focus on other things too - do you have exams coming up? :smile:


I don't have any exams to revise for, so I'll guess I'll be watching the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy today xD
Reply 10
Original post by gregzz
My average UMS was 92%, which as explained by oxymoronic is not enough for an auto-pool



Good luck mate, there is nothing we can do now, just sit and hope(unless you get interview)


oh okay, thanks! do you know if maths and further maths is counted as one a subject or two?
Original post by sickoftheslaughter
What if your UMS is 92.8% out of interest, do you think they would round it up to 93%?


I really don't know, it completely depends on the person doing the maths.
It's the same with degree classifications - if you get 69.8% some universities will round it up to a first class degree whereas others will say you didn't hit 70% so therefore you get a 2:i classification.

Original post by unbridled
I don't have any exams to revise for, so I'll guess I'll be watching the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy today xD


Sounds like a good plan! :smile: I've never got into LOTR, I tried to read the books a few times when I was younger but it's not for me. You won't find out anything before tomorrow at 3pm now.
Reply 12
Original post by TPJY
oh okay, thanks! do you know if maths and further maths is counted as one a subject or two?


I think it will count as 2, because offers for people who applied for maths were A*A*A with A*'s for Maths and FM
Original post by unbridled
I've just been pooled by Trinity Hall for English. Not quite sure what to feel right now..


Original post by iCiaran
Also pooled by TH for CompSci, not an auto-pool either.


Original post by gregzz
I've been pooled by Trinity Hall for CompSci, but it wasn't an Auto-Pool


Pooled by Trinity Hall for MML, but not auto-pooling. Do TH actually give out offers..
Pooled by Downing for Nat Sci. Fun.

Not sure if autopool or not, best 3 UMS is above 93, most relevant 3 UMS (Maths, FM, phys) is just under, but rounds up to 93
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 15
Original post by The Polymath
Pooled by Trinity Hall for MML, but not auto-pooling. Do TH actually give out offers..


I dont think there is anyone on TSR that got an offer from TH... Today is the last day for pooling candidates as well
Just been pooled by Jesus for Economics. Average UMS only 91% so I'm not at all confident of being fished.
Pooled by King's for HSPS. UMS was 95.5%. Best of luck everybody.
Pooled by Churchill for CompSci. To be honest I'm really not surprised considering there's 91 applications to about 18 places. :P I'm so glad that it's not a straight out rejection :biggrin:
Reply 19
I've been pooled by Clare for English. My main hope is that I don't get called in for interview, I have exams in two weeks and extra stress, even about this stuff, is unlikely to be helpful. I'm a bit scared of working out my UMS average for what it will tell me, hopefully my 100% in the English paper will carry me a little father!

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