What's it really like living together?
Co-habitation. Living with your boyfriend/girlfriend for the very first time. What is it really like? I ask people who have/are experiencing this justnow to tell me the reality of it all. As much detail as you like, the more the better.
Do you really find every single thing they do irritating after a while? Or does living together only make you love them more? Is it hard to have a social life independant from your boyfriend? How does your relationship alter? Can you still do your university work with your loved one living in the flat? How do you work out simple things like who does which chores, who pays for what, etc?
Tell me everything there is to know about living together! I really need to know the reality of it before deciding if and when to move in with my boyfriend. Thanks
Do you really find every single thing they do irritating after a while? Or does living together only make you love them more? Is it hard to have a social life independant from your boyfriend? How does your relationship alter? Can you still do your university work with your loved one living in the flat? How do you work out simple things like who does which chores, who pays for what, etc?
Tell me everything there is to know about living together! I really need to know the reality of it before deciding if and when to move in with my boyfriend. Thanks
I have literally just moved in with my boyfriend. My story is a bit different to the norm because we were in an LDR. We had been discussing it since last October. At the end of this month we'll have been together for 2 years, we'd been lobg distance from the start with me in London and him in Leeds. I finished uni in May and started work at an airport on a six month contract. My boyfriend is a police officer. We talked a lot about living together, who would move, how it would work, considered the ups and downs. In the end we decided I would move, partly because it was easier for me to as I was younger, I was on a fixed term contract for work and my boyfriend had already three to establish his career. I wouldn't mind moving up, I like the area I was more than happy to move. We've been on holiday twice, once for 12 days another for 4. We've done long weekends away together and because it was in LDR we would try and spend as much time together for as long as possible. We would spend days together at a time rather than hours which would have been the case if we were close distance.
We were both doing shift work, long hours and totally opposite shift patterns. It was so hard to see each other but made it work, I did most of the travelling mainly because he's got his own place but it was hard work finishing a night shift, getting no sleep whatsoever and travelling up. We discussed moving in together in March and we decided that at the start of May i'd move up and move in.
It was one of the most terrifying decisions I've ever had. So many thoughts running through my head, panicking if it was the right thing, was it too quick, wondering if he was ready for it, whether we were both ready, what would happen if it didn't work. On top of all that I had to leave my job. I absolutely loved my job. I loved the people I worked with and the pay was fantastic for a first job, really amazing. I had been told I'd be good at the next level up and that I should apply. I'd be giving all that up to move and live only on my saving until I found a job. I knew that if I wasn't thinking about both the positive and negative sides of the relationship when living together I knew I shouldn't do it because it would mean I'd be going into it head first without considering the various different situation and events that might happen. Regarding the job? I had to just take the risk. I knew it would be lot easier to look for jobs when I move up and it isn't something Ihaddreamed up doing but I knew I'd be happy tostay and progress. I simply had to take a chance, nothing more.
I've been here for just over three weeks so far. It still feels like a visit so far. I'm enjoying it, it's so much fun to be able to be with each other, especially after the distance. I'm bored during the times he's at work however I've been productive looking for jobs and even have myself an interview next week. I feel a little isolated because I don't know the area well but I'm taking myself out and exploring. Nor do I know many people up here at all, hopefully that'll change once I get a job.
Because I moved into his place it doesn't feel like ours. Regardless of how long we're here for it will always feel like his because he's already established himself here and got his routine and everything the way he likes it. Once I have a job we're planning on looking for somewhere else to move to make it both ours. I can't wait for that. I've not found anything particularly irritating yet to be honest, I'm sure there will be things that bug me but not so much just yet. I love being able to learn and know more about him because we live together, I'm finding out new and interesting things about him which I really enjoy. Unfortunately because of his job he is often late home, that can sometimes be disappointing because he's often so tired but I know it's not his fault at all and he works so very hard. I know he. Was particularly concerned about things becoming 'routine' and boring; I told him to an extent it will because there has to be and I think in time he'll adjust and get use to it and enjoy it. We have plenty of things lined up to break it up. Chores? Well because I'm jobless I'm doing them. I'm more than happy to because it gives me something to do while he's working. As and when I get a job I doubt we'll have the need to set out a rota of who does what and when, seems childish to me. We have the attitude if it needs doing, do it. At the moment he is paying the bills because they will hardly change with me here, yet I would've hated it if i couldn't contribute at all so I made him make a deal with me where I pay for the food shopping. When I am able to contribute more I will be. He will be earning more than me so I'm not sure how exactly we'll do the bills, whether he pays for the rent and I do the utilities for example but we'll decide on something that works for us.
It's still early days but I'm looking forward to what's to come.
We were both doing shift work, long hours and totally opposite shift patterns. It was so hard to see each other but made it work, I did most of the travelling mainly because he's got his own place but it was hard work finishing a night shift, getting no sleep whatsoever and travelling up. We discussed moving in together in March and we decided that at the start of May i'd move up and move in.
It was one of the most terrifying decisions I've ever had. So many thoughts running through my head, panicking if it was the right thing, was it too quick, wondering if he was ready for it, whether we were both ready, what would happen if it didn't work. On top of all that I had to leave my job. I absolutely loved my job. I loved the people I worked with and the pay was fantastic for a first job, really amazing. I had been told I'd be good at the next level up and that I should apply. I'd be giving all that up to move and live only on my saving until I found a job. I knew that if I wasn't thinking about both the positive and negative sides of the relationship when living together I knew I shouldn't do it because it would mean I'd be going into it head first without considering the various different situation and events that might happen. Regarding the job? I had to just take the risk. I knew it would be lot easier to look for jobs when I move up and it isn't something Ihaddreamed up doing but I knew I'd be happy tostay and progress. I simply had to take a chance, nothing more.
I've been here for just over three weeks so far. It still feels like a visit so far. I'm enjoying it, it's so much fun to be able to be with each other, especially after the distance. I'm bored during the times he's at work however I've been productive looking for jobs and even have myself an interview next week. I feel a little isolated because I don't know the area well but I'm taking myself out and exploring. Nor do I know many people up here at all, hopefully that'll change once I get a job.
Because I moved into his place it doesn't feel like ours. Regardless of how long we're here for it will always feel like his because he's already established himself here and got his routine and everything the way he likes it. Once I have a job we're planning on looking for somewhere else to move to make it both ours. I can't wait for that. I've not found anything particularly irritating yet to be honest, I'm sure there will be things that bug me but not so much just yet. I love being able to learn and know more about him because we live together, I'm finding out new and interesting things about him which I really enjoy. Unfortunately because of his job he is often late home, that can sometimes be disappointing because he's often so tired but I know it's not his fault at all and he works so very hard. I know he. Was particularly concerned about things becoming 'routine' and boring; I told him to an extent it will because there has to be and I think in time he'll adjust and get use to it and enjoy it. We have plenty of things lined up to break it up. Chores? Well because I'm jobless I'm doing them. I'm more than happy to because it gives me something to do while he's working. As and when I get a job I doubt we'll have the need to set out a rota of who does what and when, seems childish to me. We have the attitude if it needs doing, do it. At the moment he is paying the bills because they will hardly change with me here, yet I would've hated it if i couldn't contribute at all so I made him make a deal with me where I pay for the food shopping. When I am able to contribute more I will be. He will be earning more than me so I'm not sure how exactly we'll do the bills, whether he pays for the rent and I do the utilities for example but we'll decide on something that works for us.
It's still early days but I'm looking forward to what's to come.
(edited 10 years ago)
I met my partner at university, so we'd already starting 'living together' in halls before we moved into a house for the second year. In that sense, it didn't feel like too much of a jump as we already were already familiar with each other's foibles and quirks.
To answer each of your questions though in turn:
Do you really find every single thing they do irritating after a while?
Strangely enough, I can't think of a single thing which annoys me, though that might be because I'm a rather liberal person or we just share non-annoying habits.
Or does living together only make you love them more?
I'm not sure it has made me love them more, but it certainly hasn't made me love them any less. A cohabiting relationship is very different though from its counterpart and I guess that a relationship needs to have already advanced to a stage of unconditional love and trust to function properly in an environment where you'll be together most of the time.
Is it hard to have a social life independent from your boyfriend?
Not really. My partner and I both have our own friend groups (though they quickly cross over when your cohabiting) and we both go separately to different events in addition to our shared outings. Having said that though, I do think it's important to strike a balance between having your own social life and having exclusive time for your partner (though that's true of all relationships).
How does your relationship alter? Can you still do your university work with your loved one living in the flat?
We've managed it quite well. If it's general work/reading then we'll work in the same room but when it comes to hard and more intensive work, we accept that we both need our own space to work and the space to think (though quick visits next-door are always important).
How do you work out simple things like who does which chores, who pays for what, etc?
We had a brief talk before we moved into the house about how we'd arrange bill-paying and cleaning (et al.) and we've mostly just taken it from there. Where things have changed, it's usually just been a quick conversation (and a bit of extra persuasion when cleaning is involved) and we've shifted our patterns accordingly. The important thing is to always converse and everything will resolve itself, and as you're cohabiting then it's unlikely that problems will go unspoken for long.
It's hard to generalise about what it's like as every couple is different, but as long as you are in love and comfortable in their company then the only things that'll get in your way will be the general problems and demands of looking after a house. Hope that helps
To answer each of your questions though in turn:
Do you really find every single thing they do irritating after a while?
Strangely enough, I can't think of a single thing which annoys me, though that might be because I'm a rather liberal person or we just share non-annoying habits.
Or does living together only make you love them more?
I'm not sure it has made me love them more, but it certainly hasn't made me love them any less. A cohabiting relationship is very different though from its counterpart and I guess that a relationship needs to have already advanced to a stage of unconditional love and trust to function properly in an environment where you'll be together most of the time.
Is it hard to have a social life independent from your boyfriend?
Not really. My partner and I both have our own friend groups (though they quickly cross over when your cohabiting) and we both go separately to different events in addition to our shared outings. Having said that though, I do think it's important to strike a balance between having your own social life and having exclusive time for your partner (though that's true of all relationships).
How does your relationship alter? Can you still do your university work with your loved one living in the flat?
We've managed it quite well. If it's general work/reading then we'll work in the same room but when it comes to hard and more intensive work, we accept that we both need our own space to work and the space to think (though quick visits next-door are always important).
How do you work out simple things like who does which chores, who pays for what, etc?
We had a brief talk before we moved into the house about how we'd arrange bill-paying and cleaning (et al.) and we've mostly just taken it from there. Where things have changed, it's usually just been a quick conversation (and a bit of extra persuasion when cleaning is involved) and we've shifted our patterns accordingly. The important thing is to always converse and everything will resolve itself, and as you're cohabiting then it's unlikely that problems will go unspoken for long.
It's hard to generalise about what it's like as every couple is different, but as long as you are in love and comfortable in their company then the only things that'll get in your way will be the general problems and demands of looking after a house. Hope that helps
I've been living with my husband for almost 4 years now, married for the last ~20 months. We had been together for just over 2 years before that, in a semi-LDR while I was at university in Cambridge and he was working in London (not really long-distance but practicalities and money meant that we could only see each other on roughly alternate weekends). It is a big step to take and it does change your relationship - hopefully for the better though! You will find more little niggles about each other but you'll also become much closer overall, hopefully.
When we moved in together, we moved into a new (to us) flat, rather than one of us moving into the other's existing place. I think this helped us both feel more at home - I know one of my friends who moved into her bf's house says that even after a year, she still doesn't feel like it's "hers." We never really set up a chores rota or anything like that, just worked things out as we went along. This hasn't always been easy - I quickly realised that I had been unfairly blaming his old flatmates for the disgusting state of his previous flat, and he was at least equally responsible - and he got annoyed with my nagging. We both do little things slightly differently, which takes some getting used to. It's important to remember that in any shared house, one person's threshold for messiness will usually be lower than the others, so they will always feel like they're living in a pigsty, and the other will think they're being nagged/told off unnecessarily. Some people have set "boy" jobs and "girl" jobs, some people create rotas that split things 50/50, you need to work out what works for you. If there are some jobs you really hate but he doesn't mind, it makes sense for him to do it a bit more and you to do something else that he doesn't like in return; but if you both hate it then you just have to suck it up and get on with it!
Financially, we earn similar amounts so split things fairly equally. In the early days, we had separate accounts but kept a joint spreadsheet of all our domestic spending, so we could check we were paying a fair share. Since getting married we have a joint account into which we each pay a set amount each month, and all our household expenses come out of that. If there is a bigger income disparity between you, then you might need to work a bit harder at making things feel fair.
I only lived with him after university so can't comment on doing uni work, but he's managed to complete a part-time MSc since we moved in together, and I'm working on my postgraduate professional exams at the moment. We have enough space that it is possible to focus and study properly, and we respect each other's boundaries when we are working. I did have to disconnect his computer from the internet and steal his phone when he was procrastinating over finishing his dissertation though! As for social life, we both have our own friends who we see both separately and together, it's just a matter of making sure that plans with friends don't clash with any special plans we might have.
We've been through some pretty major life events since moving in together (he got seriously ill, we've planned a wedding, both had stressful jobs, mine with lots of antisocial hours) so it's hard to say if the living together itself is what has made us stronger, but it's nice to have a stable base to come home to at the end of each day.
When we moved in together, we moved into a new (to us) flat, rather than one of us moving into the other's existing place. I think this helped us both feel more at home - I know one of my friends who moved into her bf's house says that even after a year, she still doesn't feel like it's "hers." We never really set up a chores rota or anything like that, just worked things out as we went along. This hasn't always been easy - I quickly realised that I had been unfairly blaming his old flatmates for the disgusting state of his previous flat, and he was at least equally responsible - and he got annoyed with my nagging. We both do little things slightly differently, which takes some getting used to. It's important to remember that in any shared house, one person's threshold for messiness will usually be lower than the others, so they will always feel like they're living in a pigsty, and the other will think they're being nagged/told off unnecessarily. Some people have set "boy" jobs and "girl" jobs, some people create rotas that split things 50/50, you need to work out what works for you. If there are some jobs you really hate but he doesn't mind, it makes sense for him to do it a bit more and you to do something else that he doesn't like in return; but if you both hate it then you just have to suck it up and get on with it!
Financially, we earn similar amounts so split things fairly equally. In the early days, we had separate accounts but kept a joint spreadsheet of all our domestic spending, so we could check we were paying a fair share. Since getting married we have a joint account into which we each pay a set amount each month, and all our household expenses come out of that. If there is a bigger income disparity between you, then you might need to work a bit harder at making things feel fair.
I only lived with him after university so can't comment on doing uni work, but he's managed to complete a part-time MSc since we moved in together, and I'm working on my postgraduate professional exams at the moment. We have enough space that it is possible to focus and study properly, and we respect each other's boundaries when we are working. I did have to disconnect his computer from the internet and steal his phone when he was procrastinating over finishing his dissertation though! As for social life, we both have our own friends who we see both separately and together, it's just a matter of making sure that plans with friends don't clash with any special plans we might have.
We've been through some pretty major life events since moving in together (he got seriously ill, we've planned a wedding, both had stressful jobs, mine with lots of antisocial hours) so it's hard to say if the living together itself is what has made us stronger, but it's nice to have a stable base to come home to at the end of each day.
Original post by BrrrButtery
I have literally just moved in with my boyfriend. My story is a bit different to the norm because we were in an LDR. We had been discussing it since last October. At the end of this month we'll have been together for 2 years, we'd been lobg distance from the start with me in London and him in Leeds. I finished uni in May and started work at an airport on a six month contract. My boyfriend is a police officer. We talked a lot about living together, who would move, how it would work, considered the ups and downs. In the end we decided I would move, partly because it was easier for me to as I was younger, I was on a fixed term contract for work and my boyfriend had already three to establish his career. I wouldn't mind moving up, I like the area I was more than happy to move. We've been on holiday twice, once for 12 days another for 4. We've done long weekends away together and because it was in LDR we would try and spend as much time together for as long as possible. We would spend days together at a time rather than hours which would have been the case if we were close distance.
We were both doing shift work, long hours and totally opposite shift patterns. It was so hard to see each other but made it work, I did most of the travelling mainly because he's got his own place but it was hard work finishing a night shift, getting no sleep whatsoever and travelling up. We discussed moving in together in March and we decided that at the start of May i'd move up and move in.
It was one of the most terrifying decisions I've ever had. So many thoughts running through my head, panicking if it was the right thing, was it too quick, wondering if he was ready for it, whether we were both ready, what would happen if it didn't work. On top of all that I had to leave my job. I absolutely loved my job. I loved the people I worked with and the pay was fantastic for a first job, really amazing. I had been told I'd be good at the next level up and that I should apply. I'd be giving all that up to move and live only on my saving until I found a job. I knew that if I wasn't thinking about both the positive and negative sides of the relationship when living together I knew I shouldn't do it because it would mean I'd be going into it head first without considering the various different situation and events that might happen. Regarding the job? I had to just take the risk. I knew it would be lot easier to look for jobs when I move up and it isn't something Ihaddreamed up doing but I knew I'd be happy tostay and progress. I simply had to take a chance, nothing more.
I've been here for just over three weeks so far. It still feels like a visit so far. I'm enjoying it, it's so much fun to be able to be with each other, especially after the distance. I'm bored during the times he's at work however I've been productive looking for jobs and even have myself an interview next week. I feel a little isolated because I don't know the area well but I'm taking myself out and exploring. Nor do I know many people up here at all, hopefully that'll change once I get a job.
Because I moved into his place it doesn't feel like ours. Regardless of how long we're here for it will always feel like his because he's already established himself here and got his routine and everything the way he likes it. Once I have a job we're planning on looking for somewhere else to move to make it both ours. I can't wait for that. I've not found anything particularly irritating yet to be honest, I'm sure there will be things that bug me but not so much just yet. I love being able to learn and know more about him because we live together, I'm finding out new and interesting things about him which I really enjoy. Unfortunately because of his job he is often late home, that can sometimes be disappointing because he's often so tired but I know it's not his fault at all and he works so very hard. I know he. Was particularly concerned about things becoming 'routine' and boring; I told him to an extent it will because there has to be and I think in time he'll adjust and get use to it and enjoy it. We have plenty of things lined up to break it up. Chores? Well because I'm jobless I'm doing them. I'm more than happy to because it gives me something to do while he's working. As and when I get a job I doubt we'll have the need to set out a rota of who does what and when, seems childish to me. We have the attitude if it needs doing, do it. At the moment he is paying the bills because they will hardly change with me here, yet I would've hated it if i couldn't contribute at all so I made him make a deal with me where I pay for the food shopping. When I am able to contribute more I will be. He will be earning more than me so I'm not sure how exactly we'll do the bills, whether he pays for the rent and I do the utilities for example but we'll decide on something that works for us.
It's still early days but I'm looking forward to what's to come.
We were both doing shift work, long hours and totally opposite shift patterns. It was so hard to see each other but made it work, I did most of the travelling mainly because he's got his own place but it was hard work finishing a night shift, getting no sleep whatsoever and travelling up. We discussed moving in together in March and we decided that at the start of May i'd move up and move in.
It was one of the most terrifying decisions I've ever had. So many thoughts running through my head, panicking if it was the right thing, was it too quick, wondering if he was ready for it, whether we were both ready, what would happen if it didn't work. On top of all that I had to leave my job. I absolutely loved my job. I loved the people I worked with and the pay was fantastic for a first job, really amazing. I had been told I'd be good at the next level up and that I should apply. I'd be giving all that up to move and live only on my saving until I found a job. I knew that if I wasn't thinking about both the positive and negative sides of the relationship when living together I knew I shouldn't do it because it would mean I'd be going into it head first without considering the various different situation and events that might happen. Regarding the job? I had to just take the risk. I knew it would be lot easier to look for jobs when I move up and it isn't something Ihaddreamed up doing but I knew I'd be happy tostay and progress. I simply had to take a chance, nothing more.
I've been here for just over three weeks so far. It still feels like a visit so far. I'm enjoying it, it's so much fun to be able to be with each other, especially after the distance. I'm bored during the times he's at work however I've been productive looking for jobs and even have myself an interview next week. I feel a little isolated because I don't know the area well but I'm taking myself out and exploring. Nor do I know many people up here at all, hopefully that'll change once I get a job.
Because I moved into his place it doesn't feel like ours. Regardless of how long we're here for it will always feel like his because he's already established himself here and got his routine and everything the way he likes it. Once I have a job we're planning on looking for somewhere else to move to make it both ours. I can't wait for that. I've not found anything particularly irritating yet to be honest, I'm sure there will be things that bug me but not so much just yet. I love being able to learn and know more about him because we live together, I'm finding out new and interesting things about him which I really enjoy. Unfortunately because of his job he is often late home, that can sometimes be disappointing because he's often so tired but I know it's not his fault at all and he works so very hard. I know he. Was particularly concerned about things becoming 'routine' and boring; I told him to an extent it will because there has to be and I think in time he'll adjust and get use to it and enjoy it. We have plenty of things lined up to break it up. Chores? Well because I'm jobless I'm doing them. I'm more than happy to because it gives me something to do while he's working. As and when I get a job I doubt we'll have the need to set out a rota of who does what and when, seems childish to me. We have the attitude if it needs doing, do it. At the moment he is paying the bills because they will hardly change with me here, yet I would've hated it if i couldn't contribute at all so I made him make a deal with me where I pay for the food shopping. When I am able to contribute more I will be. He will be earning more than me so I'm not sure how exactly we'll do the bills, whether he pays for the rent and I do the utilities for example but we'll decide on something that works for us.
It's still early days but I'm looking forward to what's to come.
I'm actually long distance as well! your set up sounds really good
I can totally relate to the difficulties of long distance. My boyfriend works full time and i'm at uni, so it is hard to see each other. My boyfriend and I are only just coming up for our one year together anniversary, so its too early in my opinion for us to be moving in together. However, we have spoken about it and know we want to be together no matter what, and moving in together is our long-term goal. How old are you both? If you don't mind me asking. Its just that i'm only 18 and my boyfrined is 22. We were thinking of moving in together in two years time- when I am 20 and he 24. I will still be at uni at this point. But I don't know if 20 is still too young. However, we will have beentogether 3 years at this point (all going well), which is a more appropriate time period before moving in together, i feelOriginal post by Anonymous
I'm actually long distance as well! your set up sounds really good I can totally relate to the difficulties of long distance. My boyfriend works full time and i'm at uni, so it is hard to see each other. My boyfriend and I are only just coming up for our one year together anniversary, so its too early in my opinion for us to be moving in together. However, we have spoken about it and know we want to be together no matter what, and moving in together is our long-term goal. How old are you both? If you don't mind me asking. Its just that i'm only 18 and my boyfrined is 22. We were thinking of moving in together in two years time- when I am 20 and he 24. I will still be at uni at this point. But I don't know if 20 is still too young. However, we will have beentogether 3 years at this point (all going well), which is a more appropriate time period before moving in together, i feel
I can totally relate to the difficulties of long distance. My boyfriend works full time and i'm at uni, so it is hard to see each other. My boyfriend and I are only just coming up for our one year together anniversary, so its too early in my opinion for us to be moving in together. However, we have spoken about it and know we want to be together no matter what, and moving in together is our long-term goal. How old are you both? If you don't mind me asking. Its just that i'm only 18 and my boyfrined is 22. We were thinking of moving in together in two years time- when I am 20 and he 24. I will still be at uni at this point. But I don't know if 20 is still too young. However, we will have beentogether 3 years at this point (all going well), which is a more appropriate time period before moving in together, i feelArgh long distance can be so draining can't it!? It's hard work and a lot of effort. Saying that it can either make or break a relationship and I truly feel that our relationship is stronger for it. I also think it's given us a headstart with moving in togeter because when we did manage to see each other we spent nearly every minute of every day together that we coul. It is good that you've both spoken about it already and have a feel for what you're both looking for and hoping it will lead to. You both then have a base to work from and know what you're aiming for. No not at all it's fine, I'm 22 and my boyfriend is 27. Everything I have done is nothing that I had ever dreamed of doing. I was always going to live and work in London, but then sometimes things don't go quite to plan. I did think that I would like to live out by myself for a while, have my own flat and my own independence. Although I lived away for uni and have moved out of my parents home now it's not quite the same thing but I am still enjoying it. I don't think it necessarily matters (to a certain extent) how old you are. It's how you feel about it. I won't lie I was scared about the whole prospect of not only moving in with my partner but also moving away to a new area and leaving my family and friends behind but I was so very excited too! I personally thought feeling both scared and excited was a good combination. I wanted to move in but I wasn't jumping in head first knowing it was going to be perfect. You have plenty of time to think things through. I'm guessing you and your boyfriend live in the same town when you're home from uni?
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Is this pathetic or genuinely something to be upset aboutTrending
Last reply 6 days ago
My friend might be getting extra time and i hate it.Last reply 6 days ago
Just found out about UCL stat test but can't afford to sit itLast reply 2 weeks ago
Dad keeps criticising my university degree choiceLast reply 3 weeks ago
Is this pathetic or genuinely something to be upset about
