Does going to a &quot;prestigious&quot; university benefit you as a Doctor?

Original post by Rascacielos

I'd be interested to know. So, are we saying there is absolutely no benefit of going to, say, Oxbridge? Aside from perhaps acquiring more in-depth scientific knowledge, as Cambridge in particular is renowned for its academic approach to medicine.

I thought this too.

Some of the A-level kids kicking about the forum will argue that going to Oxbridge is better and advantages you, but all of the med students/doctors and applicants who aren't them are in unanimous agreement that where you go doesn't matter. :tongue:

They are pass fail.

Original post by Incredimazing

Yes, I believe most med schools use a merit/distinction method of grading, which results in a pass or fail. 2:1 is a force of habit. :smile:

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I wouldn't say most. There are methods of awarding high academic achievers in med school, but very few medical schools reflect that in the degree awarded. The ones that do just plugs (Hons.) onto the end of the degree if you've "performed highly enough."

Every medical school has a different assessment and grading system, though. Some award letter grades; some simply say pass/fail; some give merit/distinction. The grading you get doesn't really seem to matter, though. All that matters is your ranking within your year. Doesn't really matter if you just scrape the pass mark on all your exams: like they say in the US: "P=MD"

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 6

star10159

OP

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Original post by Hype en Ecosse

x.

So would you agree with a statement a long the lines of,

A person from say , imperial has an equal chance of gaining a fellowship (speacilizing ) in cardiac surgery as someone from HYMS, given that all other factors eg. Other degrees, references, interviews etc. are the same?

PS. I know that this is an extremely unlikely scenario,

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 7

Incredimazing

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Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

No to all the points you made there.

What determines your ability to get jobs in the UK or abroad is your postgraduate experience and passing the relevant examinations e.g. USMLE and not whether you have Cambridge or Plymouth stamped on your diploma. However the nature of some courses prepare you better for certain pathways e.g the scientific depth at Oxbridge makes those graduates better prepared for research careers.

Of course the environments are very different so that might influence your thinking of what is a 'better medical school' e.g. Oxford is goingto provide a more academically diverse and stimulating environment than say Hull.

True, although you can't take away the 'bias' factor. The American training system heavily favours doctors graduating in America. The prestige of a university may be the difference between you and somebody else.

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Reply 8

Original post by star10159

So would you agree with a statement a long the lines of,

A person from say , imperial has an equal chance of gaining a fellowship (speacilizing ) in cardiac surgery as someone from HYMS, given that all other factors eg. Other degrees, references, interviews etc. are the same?

PS. I know that this is an extremely unlikely scenario,

Well if you were going for a fellowship (takes place after residency) in the US, then at that point you'd be well into your specialty training here in the UK. By that point I'd hope you'd have a lot better things on your CV than the Imperial brand name. :tongue:

Regarding applying for internships and residencies in the US, I'm afraid I don't know what effect reputation has on applications as an IMG. Like Gridiron implies above, much more important things are your experience and things like Step 1 scores. I can't imagine "prestige" having a large effect, but I don't know enough to say it'll have no effect at all. I'll have to leave that to someone more qualified to answer.

If you're talking about specialising in the UK (i.e. going onto specialty training), then where you go doesn't really matter.

Reply 9

Well, internationally, it certainly helps if you graduate from the more "prestigious" universities. Of course, the scores are important, but there is a significant name drop factor for countries that aren't so close with the UK like mine.

Reply 10

Original post by hslakaal

Well, internationally, it certainly helps if you graduate from the more "prestigious" universities. Of course, the scores are important, but there is a significant name drop factor for countries that aren't so close with the UK like mine.

Again that's an inaccurate statement, look at all the doctors from the subcontinent practising in the UK, US and Canada who trained at schools in India and Pakistan which hardly have the name recognition kudos as say Cambridge or Johns Hopkins or the Bolognas of the world.

Reply 11

Original post by star10159

So would you agree with a statement a long the lines of,

A person from say , imperial has an equal chance of gaining a fellowship (speacilizing ) in cardiac surgery as someone from HYMS, given that all other factors eg. Other degrees, references, interviews etc. are the same?

PS. I know that this is an extremely unlikely scenario,

Yes but as you rightly pointed out it's a very unlikely scenario. The quality of postgraduate experience might come into play e.g if candidate x did surgical rotations in a busy London teaching hospital whereas under a famous consultant. Your university isn't even mentioned on the FY1 applications so university plays no factor whatsoever.

As for your own academic rankings i cant really say whether or not it might be easier to rank higher at certain places over others as it very much depends on the cohort.

Reply 12

Original post by Hype en Ecosse

Well if you were going for a fellowship (takes place after residency) in the US, then at that point you'd be well into your specialty training here in the UK. By that point I'd hope you'd have a lot better things on your CV than the Imperial brand name. :tongue:

Regarding applying for internships and residencies in the US, I'm afraid I don't know what effect reputation has on applications as an IMG. Like Gridiron implies above, much more important things are your experience and things like Step 1 scores. I can't imagine "prestige" having a large effect, but I don't know enough to say it'll have no effect at all. I'll have to leave that to someone more qualified to answer.

If you're talking about specialising in the UK (i.e. going onto specialty training), then where you go doesn't really matter.

I believe there's three steps to the USMLE with the latter having to be taken in the US. I would assume your knowledge of American Medical Practice, regulations, prescribing, ethics etc would be a significant factor alongside why you actually want to come to the states. Most medical schools in the US are highly regarded so it's not like JHU and Harvard graduates get first pickings.

Your ranking and quality of the answers on the application and the test portion of the FY1 application will have a bearing on whether or not you get the job at a popular foundation school not to mention intercalated degrees, publications etc. If you went to a renowned hospital e.g. the JR and did well there e.g. Good reports, good quality experience then that will have a bearing on your prospects. Otherwise nobody know which med school you were at when applying for F1.

Reply 13

Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

Again that's an inaccurate statement, look at all the doctors from the subcontinent practising in the UK, US and Canada who trained at schools in India and Pakistan which hardly have the name recognition kudos as say Cambridge or Johns Hopkins or the Bolognas of the world.

Right. Notice how I said "countries that aren't so close with the UK like mine"? I'm currently at King's, and my degree, unless I get stupidly good results in the KMLE, is going to be looked down upon, simply because it appears to be from a 'third-rate' university to most Korean doctors. It just isn't a household name university outside of the Commonwealth, and hence graduating from the more well-known education brands does have its merits. Unless you are an international medical student or have done extensive audits and research on the topic of IMG recruitment, I'd like to say that I'm pretty confident on knowledge of my future employability.

Of course, you can get jobs in the UK,US etc. with any recognised medical degree, and decent licensing exam scores. But most of the senior or renowned physicians in popular training programs are tending towards those with degrees from more well known-brands. I'm talking strictly about IMGs, not about UK graduates in the UK, or US grads in the US.

Furthermore, beyond employability in training programs, believe me when I say that a surgeon with an Oxbridge degree earns a lot more than a surgeon with say, a degree from HYMS (no hate on HYMS - just happens to be the more esoteric med school for international recruiters) overseas in private practice

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 14

Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

I believe there's three steps to the USMLE with the latter having to be taken in the US. I would assume your knowledge of American Medical Practice, regulations, prescribing, ethics etc would be a significant factor alongside why you actually want to come to the states. Most medical schools in the US are highly regarded so it's not like JHU and Harvard graduates get first pickings.

Yep! There's step 1, step 2 CK, step 2 CS and step 3. But step 3 the Americans usually take after already graduating from medical school. I think there's some special requirement IMGs have to tick off before they can sit it.

Reply 15

Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

TBH i base it on my own experiences of the profession being a medstudent myself (taking time out atm), coming from a family of doctors and speaking to medical professionals in the uk and abroad so i will take your comments with a pinch of salt.

As for king's being a third-rate university well that's a lad of BS given that it ranks highly in the world rankings in general and GKT is a renowned medical school. Anyone who thinks it's third rate is a moron. And no surgeons from Oxbridge don't earn a lot more. I know plenty of surgeons who earn a lot and I'd bet you £3000 nobody here has heard of those medical schools.

Again, may I remind you that I'm talking from an overseas perspective? I mentioned that several times. Hardly anyone in Korea knows KCL - if I personally considered it third-rate, I wouldn't have enrolled would I? Barely anyone knows that University of London is a federation of universities to give an example.

I mentioned Oxbridge again, in overseas private practice. I've lived in Malaysia for the past 9 years, and the private doctors with degrees from more prestigious universities get paid more. I did not mention at any point that the awarding body has any effect within the UK for UK graduates.

Original post by Hype en Ecosse

Yep! There's step 1, step 2 CK, step 2 CS and step 3. But step 3 the Americans usually take after already graduating from medical school. I think there's some special requirement IMGs have to tick off before they can sit it.

The ECFMG Cert. - basically to certify that the med school and degree is recognised in order to take Step 3, as it is taken usually during the first year of residency.

Reply 16

Original post by hslakaal

The ECFMG Cert. - basically to certify that the med school and degree is recognised in order to take Step 3, as it is taken usually during the first year of residency.

Ahh, that's not too complicated. Thanks!

Reply 17

VARISHA

No not necessarily. My older brother went to Barts and the London school of medicine, QMUL and now a medical consultant. It isn't big as going to Oxford but it is a very reputable for medicine. In the UK, all medical schools are reputable unlike the ones for example in India or Bangladesh where you can pay to get in to a medical school. brother once said that when he was a junior doctor, you will have many big headed arrogant doctors who went to Oxford, and they used to consider him 'low class' but in the end his confidence, knowledge and passion was what brought him to the top, and every where he worked... the staff loved him and the patients.

Reply 18

Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

I doubt the opinion of the common Korean has any bearing on how prestigious or renowned an MBBS from King's is. If you're talking about Korean medics/academics then it's just ignorance. My points related to both UK and overseas practice.

I mean how many people on the streets of Manchester will have heard of Stanford or Princeton or even any of the big American universities? Just because Liam Gallagher doesn't know about Caltech doesn't make it any less regarded just as it would be if some Texan didn't know about Cambridge or that people in Berlin were unaware of McGill. Reputation is based on research output and quality of teaching and King's is by no means a third-rate medical school.

I'm not saying that their opinion affects the classification of my future degree. What I am saying is my possibly employability if I decide to return (which at this point, seems ridiculously likely), since not many people, including doctors and residency chiefs have heard of it. I am purely trying to give real life examples to the OP where the choice of medical schools will have an effect, although it isn't exactly going to be the most likely place he is planning on.

Reply 19