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It would be just great if someone could provide me with even one example of a Doctor or Nurse wearing a veil in the hospital?
On a side note, at a time where it is possible to see a womans vagina through her leggings and having breasts shoved in your face is the norm, its almost like God like intervention that on the very same street a woman will walk past who's completely covered. It's nice to see a little balance being restored.
Personally, I believe that Muslims have to realise that they are still guests in non-Muslim lands for whatever reason whether we like it or not, and the non-Muslims have made a lot of allowances for us as their guests. When you're a guest in someone's home, you really need to try your best in trying to not offend them, especially when you don't know them that well. If there's a choice between you being out of your comfort zone, or you taking them out of theirs, you should sacrifice your own comfort first.
On a side note, at a time where it is possible to see a womans vagina through her leggings and having breasts shoved in your face is the norm, its almost like God like intervention that on the very same street a woman will walk past who's completely covered. It's nice to see a little balance being restored.
Personally, I believe that Muslims have to realise that they are still guests in non-Muslim lands for whatever reason whether we like it or not, and the non-Muslims have made a lot of allowances for us as their guests. When you're a guest in someone's home, you really need to try your best in trying to not offend them, especially when you don't know them that well. If there's a choice between you being out of your comfort zone, or you taking them out of theirs, you should sacrifice your own comfort first.
(edited 10 years ago)
No. If my doctor did I would change doctors. I'm partially deaf and I'd lose a lot of my communication with a doctor if I couldn't see their face.
Yup, don't see any issues that it could cause, unless someone purposely wants to be fussy.
A veil isn't going to lower anyone's sound either.
I'm also pretty sure you'll be able to satisfactorily communicate with someone who's face you can't see, unless you don't answer your phone.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
No. If my doctor did I would change doctors. I'm partially deaf and I'd lose a lot of my communication with a doctor if I couldn't see their face.
A veil isn't going to lower anyone's sound either.
I'm also pretty sure you'll be able to satisfactorily communicate with someone who's face you can't see, unless you don't answer your phone.
(edited 10 years ago)
Hmmm...I suppose they should be allowed to. On the other hand, some patients might find it off putting
If doctors have to roll up their sleeves and tuck in their tie (or remove it, I can't remember, if someone could clarify that would be great!) surely it's a hygiene issue if you would be permitted to wear a full headscarf? Wouldn't it get in the way? As for issues of communication and security etc. which are commonly discussed.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Al-Mudaari
Yup, don't see any issues that it could cause, unless someone purposely wants to be fussy.
Get hearing aids then, a veil isn't going to lower anyone's sound either.
I'm also pretty sure you'll be able to satisfactorily communicate with someone who's face you can't see, unless you don't answer your phone.
Get hearing aids then, a veil isn't going to lower anyone's sound either.
I'm also pretty sure you'll be able to satisfactorily communicate with someone who's face you can't see, unless you don't answer your phone.
Non verbal communication. I find phone calls difficult sometimes, but the volume is adjustable. It's very hard to communicate with someone who I can't see. Also there's no reason to wear a viel anyway
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Non verbal communication. I find phone calls difficult sometimes, but the volume is adjustable. It's very hard to communicate with someone who I can't see.
Well, I'm not a doctor to really verify this illness that renders communication obsolete without seeing the person's face.
What I will say is, your situation sounds like a minority and not enough to make a blanket generalisation. Patients can choose their doctors, so I guess it wouldn't be much of an issue for you any ways. Still a shame you're so much against the veil.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Also there's no reason to wear a viel anyway
It's a part of someone's [mainly female Muslims] religious practice. That's reason enough.
Original post by Al-Mudaari
Well, I'm not a doctor to really verify this illness that renders communication obsolete without seeing the person's face.
What I will say is, your situation sounds like a minority and not enough to make a blanket generalisation. Patients can choose their doctors, so I guess it wouldn't be much of an issue for you any ways. Still a shame you're so much against the veil.
It's a part of someone's [mainly female Muslims] religious practice. That's reason enough.
What I will say is, your situation sounds like a minority and not enough to make a blanket generalisation. Patients can choose their doctors, so I guess it wouldn't be much of an issue for you any ways. Still a shame you're so much against the veil.
It's a part of someone's [mainly female Muslims] religious practice. That's reason enough.
It is not part of the religion. Islam says a woman has to dress modestly, it does not say she has to wear a veil. There is no reason to wear it.
Also it is unsanitary. In most hospitals you have to wear their own clothes would be unclean to let others in
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
No. If my doctor did I would change doctors. I'm partially deaf and I'd lose a lot of my communication with a doctor if I couldn't see their face.
There wouldnt be anything stopping the doctor/ nurse from removing their veil for you in this circumstance or any other. The Doctors/ Nurse should always have the patients best interest at heart. Would you not ask if they can remove it for you? and if they did would you still keep them?
Absolutely not. Face to face contact is part of the trust.
A lot of people feel uncomfortable speaking in public to someone wearing a veil; to put that somewhere where people are vulnerable is a bad idea.
A lot of people feel uncomfortable speaking in public to someone wearing a veil; to put that somewhere where people are vulnerable is a bad idea.
Original post by zeshanahmed
There wouldnt be anything stopping the doctor/ nurse from removing their veil for you in this circumstance or any other. The Doctors/ Nurse should always have the patients best interest at heart. Would you not ask if they can remove it for you? and if they did would you still keep them?
Yeah, that's fine. If they removed it for me, then yeah, but I'd feel more awkward asking them to remove it than just getting another doctor. Unless they said before hand that they would be happy to remove it if it made me more comfortable or somethin
Original post by Al-Mudaari
your situation sounds like a minority and not enough to make a blanket generalisation
It's a part of someone's [mainly female Muslims] religious practice. That's reason enough.
It's a part of someone's [mainly female Muslims] religious practice. That's reason enough.
So, one minority is not allowed to be pandered to, but another is?
No matter what you say, Islam accounts for no more than 5% of the total population of the UK. That makes it a minority. But you just said a minority is not enough to make a blanket generalisation.
Original post by SpicyStrawberry
If doctors have to roll up their sleeves and tuck in their tie (or remove it, I can't remember, if someone could clarify that would be great!) surely it's a hygiene issue if you would be permitted to wear a full headscarf? Wouldn't it get in the way? As for issues of communication and security etc. which are commonly discussed.
Veil doesn't equal a headscarf. And how would wearing a headscarf be a hygiene issue?
Original post by SpicyStrawberry
If doctors have to roll up their sleeves and tuck in their tie (or remove it, I can't remember, if someone could clarify that would be great!) surely it's a hygiene issue if you would be permitted to wear a full headscarf? Wouldn't it get in the way? As for issues of communication and security etc. which are commonly discussed.
Tuck in their tie usually, but its preferred if it is removed as it can come out. To be honest wearing a veil is actually more hygienic than not wearing one, it prevents anything cross contaminating, think of it like a full face mask. Ive seen Doctors and surgeons wearing a 'scarf' scrub, compared to the normal hair nets, the headscarf is more hygienic. Obviously you get disposable ones so hygiene in actual fact is not an issue.
(edited 10 years ago)
It certainly is a communication barrier. It may not physically dampen your ability to hear a doctor, but it is a psychological barrier in forming a relationship. Non verbal communication is vital, and there is tons of evidence suggesting how important its role is in forming a relationship, especially facial expression.
As a doctor you have to make very important decision for and with your patients. You perhaps see them for a 20 minute clinic meeting every 6 months, so it is vital you don't slow the process of forming a relationship with your patient by garnishing a physical barrier. It is important to remember that we have an elderly population and they take up most of our medical services. Whilst your average 20 something may not have a problem with a doctor in veil, many people in their 70s and 80s who are from a completely different generation will do.
Hygiene is an important consideration; we have to be bare below the elbows these days with nothing that will dangle about. If I can't wear a watch or a tie in a clinical setting then I find it outrageous that special exception is allowed for others when it is in direct opposition to best clinical practice. Bearing in mind how I despise looking scruffy (would love to wear tie and jacket) and having a watch is bloody useful for counting a pulse. Is it a hygiene risk? I'm not sure, but there isn't the evidence out there to say it is hygienically safe that is for certain. You cannot assume it is ok until the evidence is there.
We have to make sacrifices as doctors for our patients, and appropriate dress is another one of them. If you aren't happy to respect your patient's needs and what's in their best interest then there are plenty of other careers out there.
I've never encountered a doctor who does or wants to wear a full veil, so I don't think it's that big of a deal. But from a position of best medical practice, and as a matter of principle, I think it is unfair to make a large proportion of your patients uncomfortable on a daily basis due to your own unwillingness to adapt to the dress code of your workplace, or the unwillingness to choose a career where you can have the freedom to wear what you want.
There is no need to force clinically damaging attire on people in their time of need, especially when it is religiously motivated and not scientifically motivated. Medicine is a largely secular service where decisions are made upon best scientific evidence based practice, and it is important to keep a distinction between your professional duty in the workplace and you private beliefs and practices.
As a doctor you have to make very important decision for and with your patients. You perhaps see them for a 20 minute clinic meeting every 6 months, so it is vital you don't slow the process of forming a relationship with your patient by garnishing a physical barrier. It is important to remember that we have an elderly population and they take up most of our medical services. Whilst your average 20 something may not have a problem with a doctor in veil, many people in their 70s and 80s who are from a completely different generation will do.
Hygiene is an important consideration; we have to be bare below the elbows these days with nothing that will dangle about. If I can't wear a watch or a tie in a clinical setting then I find it outrageous that special exception is allowed for others when it is in direct opposition to best clinical practice. Bearing in mind how I despise looking scruffy (would love to wear tie and jacket) and having a watch is bloody useful for counting a pulse. Is it a hygiene risk? I'm not sure, but there isn't the evidence out there to say it is hygienically safe that is for certain. You cannot assume it is ok until the evidence is there.
We have to make sacrifices as doctors for our patients, and appropriate dress is another one of them. If you aren't happy to respect your patient's needs and what's in their best interest then there are plenty of other careers out there.
I've never encountered a doctor who does or wants to wear a full veil, so I don't think it's that big of a deal. But from a position of best medical practice, and as a matter of principle, I think it is unfair to make a large proportion of your patients uncomfortable on a daily basis due to your own unwillingness to adapt to the dress code of your workplace, or the unwillingness to choose a career where you can have the freedom to wear what you want.
There is no need to force clinically damaging attire on people in their time of need, especially when it is religiously motivated and not scientifically motivated. Medicine is a largely secular service where decisions are made upon best scientific evidence based practice, and it is important to keep a distinction between your professional duty in the workplace and you private beliefs and practices.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Al-Mudaari
Yup, don't see any issues that it could cause, unless someone purposely wants to be fussy.
Get hearing aids then, a veil isn't going to lower anyone's sound either.
I'm also pretty sure you'll be able to satisfactorily communicate with someone who's face you can't see, unless you don't answer your phone.
Get hearing aids then, a veil isn't going to lower anyone's sound either.
I'm also pretty sure you'll be able to satisfactorily communicate with someone who's face you can't see, unless you don't answer your phone.
Such ignorance. Not all death people can use hearing aids.
And do you not understand how much communication is non verbal? Imagine being told you had cancer by nothing but a pair of eyes.
No. That type of job requires patient-doctor/nurse contact and trust. If you can't see someone's face you can't read them so you can't fully trust them, no matter how reassuring their voice is.
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