Biochemistry vs Chemistry

biochem!!!!

i was in exactly the same position as you. i loved chem at GCSE and still like it at Alevel but my love for bio has just grown. i decided i didn't want to do bio at uni (due to ecology and plants damn you) and although i like chem i didn't want to lose some aspects of bio. in the end i went for biochem as a compromise and although i can't really comment as i don't start until oct i think i made the right choice.

chem might have slightly better job prospects (fewer grads) but biochem gives you slightly more diverse options, its still got a good employment record.

in the end you don't want to do a degree for the job prospects you want one you will enjoy.

are you thinking of oxford, otherwise you could always go for natsci (although that would mean camb :frown:

)

Reply 2

also they are different subjects-biochem (although there is a lot of chem in the first year at ox) is essentially the application of chem to biology, i think it gives you the chemistry; mechanisms, entropy, enthalpy, kinetics etc etc but also the biological detail enzymes, proteins, metabolic pathways etc etc.

don't forget biochem is a growing area so jobs willl increase.

Reply 3

Cirsium

19

Don't base your choice on anything other than how much you love the subject - if you do you'll only live to regret it. That said our chemists seem to work harder than anyone I know... but Biochem has what I believe is the highest drop out rate (the year above me 11 people dropped out at the end of their first year)

Reply 4

Sinuhe

8

alispam

don't forget biochem is a growing area so jobs willl increase.

While that's true, perhaps it's worth mentioning what I've been told on two separate occasions whilst working in a structural biology lab last summer. Apparently the general feeling of people working in the field (ie, the people I talked to were referring to their discussions with various other people at international conferences) is that it is easier to teach the required biological bits to chemists than it is to teach the required chemistry and physical techniques to biochemists or biologists when they start working there, so they prefer to employ chemists as opposed to any other type of scientist.
AND this is in the department of *biochemistry* and molecular biology, mind. (They might have been biassed, given that essentially all of them were chemists, but still ...)

Though to be perfectly honest, you can't get a good job in research without a doctorate anyway, so your undergraduate degree doesn't matter that much. And if you're not planning on staying within your field when you seek employment, then it really doesn't matter whether you go for biochemistry or chemistry at university. It's far better to choose the subject you think you'll enjoy more, I think, than to worry about employment opportunities at this stage.

There isn't very much chemistry in the Oxford biochemistry course, at least not in the first year, as far as I can tell. They've got some elementary physical chemistry, and their organic chemistry is partly shared with us (namely the carbonyl course), but their chemistry is generally just about applications to biochemistry rather than understanding the chemistry itself. Which is, really, perfectly understandable, as it's not a chemistry course. But the name, 'biochemistry', is perhaps somewhat deceiving in this respect ...

Reply 5

its got a hell of a lot more chemistry, maths and physics than most other biochem courses i can tell you!

Reply 6

Narin

Why don't you go for Cambridge Natsci? You can do both biology of cells and chemistry at a very high level in the first few years and choose to specialise later. That way I figure you won't lose out on any fundamental chemistry if you then choose to take Biochem, as you might have if you had gone for a pure biochem course from the start. I'm not an expert on course content though, so it's all speculation. Also, Cambridge is clearly a better uni :wink:

Reply 7

chocolatecheese

10

SPaRTANism

I am currently facing a dilemma in choosing between either biochemistry or chemistry at uni. I have always loved chemistry and biology, with particular strong interest in chemistry and so it seemed to me that biochemistry would be a good compromise. However my parents says that chemistry has a better career prospects ? Any advices? :confused:

Like Alispam, i was also in the same position as you this time last year...and i chose Biochem! like you said yourself...its a good compromise :smile:

First of all, although your parents are trying to help....don’t just do what THEY want you to...do what YOU and only you want to do...at the end of the day...its you doing the degree, not them.
I don't know for sure how right i am in saying this, but from what i was told at uni open days (we're talking Bristol, Bath, York, Warwick, Cardiff and Oxford) biochemistry has better career prospects (compared to other sciences i.e molecualr biology etc.(i didn’t even know this until i had already applied for biochem!)

my advice would be to read about each course at many different uni's as you can and see if either chem or bio chem sounds most interesting.

Good luck with everything :smile:

Reply 8

Eau

15

biochem is much more subscribed/popular than chem so there is less chance that you get in biochem, but that's just stats

Reply 9

alispam

chem might have slightly better job prospects (fewer grads) but biochem gives you slightly more diverse options, its still got a good employment record.

I'd have to disagree there. There are whole areas of chemistry that have job prospects where a degree in biochem isn't going to get you.

I took subsid biochem and found that most people on the course (who weren't chemists) struggle with the chemistry. Assumed knowledge was much higher than the reality.

Reply 10

hendai

should they(biochem and chem) be compared together???
they are different...

erm...i don't know how is the situation in UK...but in my country...definitely biochem graduates have better career prospects than chemistry graduates....biochem even have the best employment rate compare to other science program...
as you guys knows..biochem graduates can be employed in:
-pharmacuetical industry
-diagnostic centre
-chemical industry
-food industry
-biotech
-hospital........
for some of the field mentioned... biochem graduates can act as a chemist ...but a chemist cant....eg diagnostic centre... biochem/biomedical sc graduates usually employed...

so...i find no reasons why you said that chemistry graduates have better jobs prospects than biochemistry graduates..

correct me if i am wrong.... :smile:

Reply 11

hendai

should they(biochem and chem) be compared together???
they are different...

erm...i don't know how is the situation in UK...but in my country...definitely biochem graduates have better career prospects than chemistry graduates....biochem even have the best employment rate compare to other science program...
as you guys knows..biochem graduates can be employed in:
-pharmacuetical industry
-diagnostic centre
-chemical industry
-food industry
-biotech
-hospital........
for some of the field mentioned... biochem graduates can act as a chemist ...but a chemist cant....eg diagnostic centre... biochem/biomedical sc graduates usually employed...

so...i find no reasons why you said that chemistry graduates have better jobs prospects than biochemistry graduates..

correct me if i am wrong.... :smile:

Gladly. Chemistry and Biochem are not the same subject and so, no, the biochemist cannot take the place of the chemist in all instances (although there is a considerable degree of cross-over). It is quite simply the argument you have used yourself to claim the biochem has more job prospects than chemistry. You are quite correct in saying that there are areas where a degree in biochem is important, but that is equally true of chemistry. Jobs at the more physical end of the subject are not accessible to biochemist as they have little or no training in this area of science, also, many jobs in the chemical industry require a PhD in synthetic chemistry specifically. Polymers are still a big thing in science, technology and industry and biochemistry is not really useful for going into that area. There is a whole area of technology called nanotech (you may have heard of it) and many (if not most) of the jobs in this area are for chemists and physicists.

Basically there is cross-over in the subjects and jobs in these areas are suitable for both chemists and biochemists, but there are equally areas of both subjects which are outside the scope of the other. It is no good just ignoring all the areas in which chemists, not biochemists, are needed to try and prove a point.

Reply 12

nikk

15

alispam

its got a hell of a lot more chemistry, maths and physics than most other biochem courses i can tell you!

I assume that with making broad statements like that, you have degrees in both subjects, awarded from mulitple universities?

Reply 13

nikk

I assume that with making broad statements like that, you have degrees in both subjects, awarded from mulitple universities?

Erm, unless they haven't updated their profile in a while they are still at school. Fancy the cheek to correct someone who is talking about the course they are actually studying when you aren't even at university yourself! Hee Hee! Then again this is someone who tells us that biochem gives you more diverse options than chemistry!

I think that alispam is trying to make the oxford course sound harder than other biochem courses.

Reply 14

'most other biochem courses' from looking through the course details for quite a few unis; cardiff, durham, surrey, warwick, birmingham, southampton, bristol, glasgow, sussex....all of these have less pure chemistry modules in them. nearly all of them have no pure chemistry in them. the only chemistry is in a biochem format. oxford does have pure chem modules and a maths module as well as a biophysics module that (to my knowledge) no other uni has.

cardif'fs course is so biological it is possible to transfer to zoology or plant sciences or biology after the first year. from what i have found (granted i have not looked at all the courses-but nearlly all the top ones) only york and bath have decent amount of chemistry in them and this is less than oxford.

and chemistryboy you can't comment as you don't do biochem, have you ever looked into the courses? and sinuhe does chem...

oh and i'm not saying its more difficult just that the chem and biophysical are individual modules unlike many unis, some might find this harder some might not.

Reply 15

alispam

'most other biochem courses' from looking through the course details for quite a few unis; cardiff, durham, surrey, warwick, birmingham, southampton, bristol, glasgow, sussex....all of these have less pure chemistry modules in them. nearly all of them have no pure chemistry in them. the only chemistry is in a biochem format. oxford does have pure chem modules and a maths module as well as a biophysics module that (to my knowledge) no other uni has.

That may be more a reflection on how the chemistry is taught. Just because it isn't divided into seperate modules doesn't mean it isn't there. I know for a fact that Nottingham and St Andrews have chemistry modules for biochemistry students.

cardif'fs course is so biological it is possible to transfer to zoology or plant sciences or biology after the first year. from what i have found (granted i have not looked at all the courses-but nearlly all the top ones) only york and bath have decent amount of chemistry in them and this is less than oxford.

Look again, I'd say.

and chemistryboy you can't comment as you don't do biochem, have you ever looked into the courses? and sinuhe does chem...

Well, I studied 2 years of biochem at university sitting the same modules as biochem students, as part of my chemistry degree (specialisation occurs later at St Andrews and I could have gone on to get a degree in biochemistry). I also demonstrate and teach first year biochemists at nottingham. I guess that means I can comment, especially if you can.

oh and i'm not saying its more difficult just that the chem and biophysical are individual modules unlike many unis, some might find this harder some might not.

Surely it is irrelevant how the information is packaged up?

Reply 16

nikk

15

alispam - The reason I pulled you up on the comment was because I dislike people making sweeping generalisations, and reporting things as fact when in reality it is more of an opinion.

You say that Chemistry contains more 'chemistry' than Biochemistry. I don't see what point you are trying to make with that. How would you define chemistry? Because Biochemistry is obviously a cross-discipline subject and so it goes without saying that it won't have the same content as a pure chemistry degree (i.e. lacking some inorganic chemistry). The same can be said for the absence maths and physics content that does not relate to biological systems. That does not mean that a sound understanding of chemical, physical, and mathematical systems is not required, or that biochemistry is any easier. Indeed, I know some people that find cross-discipline subjects extremely challenging, because it requires a good level of understanding over a number of subjects, rather than concentrating solely within one area.

Reply 17

where have i said chemistry contains more chem than biochemistry? (although it obviuosly does)

sorry what i mean is that at many unis (i never commented on nottingham or st. andrews) the only chemistry taught is in the biochem context e.g. entropy with reguards to protein folding, specific mechanisms etc. at oxford there are modules that cover slightly more wide ranging chem, this could easily be true of some other unis but not of many.

ChemistryBoy what do you mean when you say look again? i said from what i'd found york and bath had good levels and that the ones id listed hadn't, i admit i haven't looked at all but as i said MOST do not, not ALL.

Also (although i accept this is hardly concrete evidence, but then what is?) someone whos currently a 3rd year biochemist at oxford who i know did say that he had friends at several other unis who were doing biochemistry and they had done less organic and physical chem than he had and there was a LOT less maths content in their courses i.e. basically none except some basic stats.

Reply 18

*Emily*

1

chem! i've found in biochemistry in alevel bio that it seems to be more surface scratching, and qualitative which i think is so frustrating - giving you names rather than actual formulas or what is being changed..
personally i find chem much more fascinating, but it's your choice.. good luck!

Reply 19