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SAF at Man U: 11th, 2nd, 11th, top 4 for the rest i think so not that bad at all! And I disagree with Laevis, and agree with underachieving players.
Milner top class, although he does tire quickly
Taylor, if he played with a better defence he would be tremendous
Duff, is completely frustrated at Newcastle cus he gets moved aroung too much, has played some awesome football (but also some crap)
Shay Given, with a better back four he would be the best keeper in the prem
Barton, prooved himself at Man C, has done nothing at newcastle and i want him out
NZogbia, arguebly one of the toons most impressive and potentially great players
Owen, was awesome, unproven at newcastle
Viduka and martins have their days fo **** and decent
Alan smith... dunno what hes doing here

Discuss

Reply 781

Laevis

miki_da_magpie

SAF at Man U: 11th, 2nd, 11th, top 4 for the rest i think so not that bad at all!

He didn't do as badly as i thought then, but still pretty poorly considering expectations and money spent in his early reign. I'm pretty sure he was close to the sack at some point, but they stuck with him and, as i said, i bet they're happy they did now!

miki_da_magpie

And I disagree with Laevis, and agree with underachieving players.

Before i look at the players you mentioned, you have to remember that these players are only underachieving if they are better than their counterparts at other clubs who are above them.

miki_da_magpie

Milner top class, although he does tire quickly
Taylor, if he played with a better defence he would be tremendous
Duff, is completely frustrated at Newcastle cus he gets moved aroung too much, has played some awesome football (but also some crap)

I've already said that Milner is possibly your best asset. Not so sure about top class. He's a good player but he does become less effective as the game goes on. He also seems to start off trying hard but then gets demotivated.
Taylor looked pretty good early on, but then got far too shaky and i'm not surprised he was dropped by Sam. He might have some potential, but he isn't that good a player right now. The vast majority of centre halfs at the other top 10 clubs are better than him e.g. Laursen, Richards, Dunne, Upson, Yobo, Distin, Campbell, King etc. How many defences of the top 10 clubs would he get into? Not very man. Probably 2 at most. So he isn't underachieving at all.
Duff was a good player at Chelsea, but save for a couple of periods in his early days at Newcastle he hasn't been very good at all. He's too injury prone and probably past it now.

miki_da_magpie

Shay Given, with a better back four he would be the best keeper in the prem
Barton, prooved himself at Man C, has done nothing at newcastle and i want him out
NZogbia, arguebly one of the toons most impressive and potentially great players

Agree with Shay Given. He is the best player at the club. Super keeper, IMO. I disagree about Barton. He never really proved very much at all other than he was a bit of a thug and that he needed all of the play to go through him in order to do anything good. Poor attitude and hitting out at Newcastle's fans is hardly a way to endear yourself to them.
N'Zogbia is pretty good, but his best position is the same as Milner's. Had a bright start this season but fizzed away. They should be trying N'Zogbia on the left and Milner on the right, see how that works out.

I just don't think the players are underachieving. As a team, Newcaslte just aren't good enough. They need to get rid of the likes of Smith and Barton. Buying Smith and Barton was probably a statement of Big Sam's intent. He was out to create a team of bullyboys/thugs. Physical, in your face, hard working, aggressive, determined players. All good attributes when accompanied with other qualities such as the actual ability to tackle rather than just breaking legs.

If you compare Toon's team man for man with that of the other currently sitting in the top 8, you wouldn't say Newcastle are underachieving. You'd say it was just a case of the cream rising to the top. Example:

Everton: Howard, Lescott, Yobo, Baines, Hibbert, Cahill, Arteta, Neville, Osman, Johnson, Yakubu.

Portsmouth: James, Johnson, Distin, Campbell, Hreidarsson, Krancjar, Diop, Utaka, Muntari, Benjani, Kanu.

Newcastle: Given, Rozenhal, Taylor, Faye, Enrique, Duff, Smith, Butt, Milner, Owen, Viduka.

I just picked a first 11 off the top of my head in a standard 4-4-2 formation. In my humble opinion, Everton and Portsmouth have better line ups than Newcastle, and most significantly in defence. I don't see how a Newcastle who are below those two teams because they are simply weaker than them, can be deemed underachievers. On the contrary, if Newcaslte were above Portsmouth, i'd deem Portsmouth's players the underachievers.

Anyway, i think i've exhausted the topic. I do wish you luck, it would be nice to Newcastle back up there, but i'm not expecting it to be any time soon. They are still a big club in their own right and i'm sure with the right man in charge they'll see gradual improvement over time. Good luck. :smile:

Brilliant post Lea!

We are going to need some luck.

I cant see us buying this window. I can only see a fight against the relegation battle and a few unhappy players being dropped for the right reasons.

Reply 784

miki_da_magpie

Yea good post Lae, thanks for the discussion. I completely agree about Barton and Smith, stupid buys that are costing us dear (especially jailboy) and you highlighted the thing that angerd me most about Sam's reign. Why play a right winger on the left, and a left footed midfielder/back on the right? Absolutely ludicrus... but yea. You've named some good defenders, but I think that, if given the chance to work with better defenders, Taylor would be awesome, he is the one player that will give 200% every minute every game, but the problem is that the defence is weak, and he cant pull them all together.
Everton's strike pair is just as bad as ours I think. If we played them in our squad they wouldnt score more than owen/viduka when fit.
I think portsmouth have an awesome team (although I wonder if they (induvidually) would play as well elsewhere), which is why i want redknapp.

Reply 785

kpg

miki_da_magpie

I dont think sacking sam was a mistake at all. Ive read so much about it now, and fair enough most if it is absolutely bs. But the problem was 1) ashley did not appoint Sam but was willing to see if Sam could play the football he bought the club to see 2) Sam tried to make Newcastle into a better bolton 3) newcastle are nothing like bolton, infact quite the opposite (absolutely shocking at the back, overly creative in the middle to the extent where we get nothing done) 4) the premiership is about results (newcastle united is about results and style of football) unfortunately for Sam he got neither 5) he doesnt know where to play players.
The thing is, with the amount of money spent at newcastle and the amount of money fans spend, we expect big things. Just like benites was under pressure this year because he spent a lot, just like jol (who coincidentally, also got the sack). True, newcastle have done it 8 times in the last 10 year... :rolleyes:

About Wenger and Sir Alex. Alex did very well right from the start... so he kept his place and was able to start changing things, if man u had been near relagation, i dont think they would ahve kept him. Wenger, Arseanal was no longer a big club when they switched to him. Newcastle was a big club when we switched from Sir Bobby... so we expected to stay there, when we went downhill, it was obvious we needed a replacement, and so it will go untill we get someone who bring us to the top.

I would like to see Harry come to the toon, but I doubt he will. His job and life are too secure down south. Big Sam was never right choice, it was the safe choice for Shephard because all the media were hyping him. I would love to see who the board approach, and Im hoping they will approach a few managers out of interest...

Redknapp will get money (in his wallet and transfer fund) every season at Newcastle and also a chance to prove himself at a club with bigger expectations. I'm not sure how much further Pompey can go and I'd think Redknapp would be mad not to take the job.

Newcastle's squad is quite mediocre, there are some talented individuals in there but a lot of over rated, mediocre deadwood. I think the club needs to re-evaluate its status and its expectations, be prepared for a season or two of nothing but rebuilding and move on from there. 8 managers in 11 years (is that right?) is farcical, there's no way to dress it up whatsoever.

Ferguson was on the verge of the sack at United btw. A late goal in the cup semi saved him and they went from there. The fans and a lot of the board had turned on him and the fa cup kept him in ajob.

Reply 786

Throwback

McClaren hopes for top-flight job :rofl:

Reply 787

TSR Group Staff

Air steward me thinks. London --> Sydney long haul ... what with that smile :biggrin:

That's as close to top flight job he's ever gonna get.

Reply 788

Vintage

todays result... Oh .... Dear.... :frown:

Reply 789

Rafa

Vintage

todays result... Oh .... Dear.... :frown:

;console;

Reply 790

miki_da_magpie

Cheated out at the 1-0 I think tbh. Sure, man u should have had a penalty in the first half, but Michael Owen scored... so 1-1 at half time. But I knew when the "real" 1-0 occurred (once again a rubbish decision by the worste referee in the Premiership, gave a free kick, when in actual fact (was it ronaldo?) just slipped as he shot). I knew he would score, and thus turned the radio off, thank god for that!

Disaster today 1) Redknapp rules himself out 2) Newcastle "fans" make a banner of "Shearer for manager" utter idiots 3) we lose to man u who we havent beaten in 10 years? soemthing like that :p:

Reply 791

Vintage

the free kick for man utds goal. was never a free-kick.
Owens goal.. well he was onside. it we'd gone 1-0 up it could have been different.

Reply 792

Lucy :)

What was the point in Smith protesting 90 minutes in you're already 5 - 0 down what does it matter?

Reply 793

Ronaldo VII

Vintage

the free kick for man utds goal. was never a free-kick.
Owens goal.. well he was onside. it we'd gone 1-0 up it could have been different.

Well our defence and keeper stopped as soon as the whistle went, so who knows whether it would have gone in. We should have had two penalties by then (and one in the 2nd half). Add that to Rooney being booked when Smith did the same and escaped, I think you got your fair share of decisions.

Reply 794

Loki_

I actually hate us :mad:

Reply 795

white_haired_wizard

Lucy :)

What was the point in Smith protesting 90 minutes in you're already 5 - 0 down what does it matter?

Smith is Smith. An inconsistent player, sometimes extremely influential, other times, he's missing and anonymous in games. A very frustrating player really. And he doesn't have the healthiest of discipline records.

Reply 796

Loki_

white_haired_wizard

Sometimes indeed....one game all season and counting.

Bring back Sam :laugh:

Reply 797

TheWolf

It would be good if Shearer comes in. But as Shearer certainly knows, it is totally risky. Risky in that Newcastle is totall shite, and could easily ruin his godly reputation. I mean even god can't help this shitty newcastle team.

Reply 798

NDGAARONDI

kpg

I'd think Redknapp would be mad not to take the job.

Is it really that desirable given how many managers have been and gone?

Reply 799

Laevis

NDGAARONDI

Is it really that desirable given how many managers have been and gone?

I suppose that can be overlooked when a billionaire chairman promises you a private jet for transport, £50m transfer funds and a £5m per year salary to add to 50,000 fans in a great stadium week in week out.

They only thing more a manager can ask for then- and perhaps the most important thing- is time.