Richer parents should pay for state school education
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Original post by Vorsah
I haven't heard of any poor private schools. I know some grammar schools that are really good but I wouldn't say they are better than the private schools in my area.
There might be some privates schools that are poor compared to state, but I would guess this figure to be very small.
All the private schools in the area I live in, have a better reputation, better behaved kids and better facilities than the state schools in my area. If I can afford to send my kid to a private school I would, as I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages by far.
In what what case would you say private is not always the best?
There might be some privates schools that are poor compared to state, but I would guess this figure to be very small.
All the private schools in the area I live in, have a better reputation, better behaved kids and better facilities than the state schools in my area. If I can afford to send my kid to a private school I would, as I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages by far.
In what what case would you say private is not always the best?
Depends on your opinion, I personally don;t like private schools, because I don't like the narrow range of people that go there an the way they can refuse to do stuff like sex education and they way they just teach kids the exams and not actual life skills.
What he's trying to do is remove the state competition from private schools. Many families who are wealthy enough to afford to send their children to private schools choose not to as they see no reason to do so. However, he would much rather have them spend their money on his own school, which is obvious from him saying "when they could afford to pay", and he is doing this under the pretense of increasing social mobility.
Original post by Vorsah
I haven't heard of any poor private schools. I know some grammar schools that are really good but I wouldn't say they are better than the private schools in my area.
There might be some privates schools that are poor compared to state, but I would guess this figure to be very small.
All the private schools in the area I live in, have a better reputation, better behaved kids and better facilities than the state schools in my area. If I can afford to send my kid to a private school I would, as I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages by far.
In what what case would you say private is not always the best?
There might be some privates schools that are poor compared to state, but I would guess this figure to be very small.
All the private schools in the area I live in, have a better reputation, better behaved kids and better facilities than the state schools in my area. If I can afford to send my kid to a private school I would, as I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages by far.
In what what case would you say private is not always the best?
If the private just plain gets bad results?
In my case it was just that it was needless, my uncle and dad discussed the benefits and agreed small classes help middle ability kids do better, as I wasn't middle ability they figured it wasn't much benefit for a lot of cost, I'd do well anywhere, and would prevent me ever leaving the middle class bubble in which I otherwise grew up. Extra curricular wise I did a sport where the key to my success was the club I competed for not the school.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Depends on your opinion, I personally don;t like private schools, because I don't like the narrow range of people that go there an the way they can refuse to do stuff like sex education and they way they just teach kids the exams and not actual life skills.
I agree, its about opinion.
Why don't you like the "narrow range of people that go there"?
Original post by Vorsah
I agree, its about opinion.
Why don't you like the "narrow range of people that go there"?
Why don't you like the "narrow range of people that go there"?
I think that only being exposed to one section of society, in this case, the rich, isn't very helpful for what actual society is like. I have nothing against rich people or people who go there, I just think it's better to have a wider mix and more diversity in the student body
Original post by Le Nombre
If the private just plain gets bad results?
In my case it was just that it was needless, my uncle and dad discussed the benefits and agreed small classes help middle ability kids do better, as I wasn't middle ability they figured it wasn't much benefit for a lot of cost, I'd do well anywhere, and would prevent me ever leaving the middle class bubble in which I otherwise grew up. Extra curricular wise I did a sport where the key to my success was the club I competed for not the school.
In my case it was just that it was needless, my uncle and dad discussed the benefits and agreed small classes help middle ability kids do better, as I wasn't middle ability they figured it wasn't much benefit for a lot of cost, I'd do well anywhere, and would prevent me ever leaving the middle class bubble in which I otherwise grew up. Extra curricular wise I did a sport where the key to my success was the club I competed for not the school.
yeah I agree, if the private school gets bad results then you wouldn't want to waste your money. And I think your point is really good.
IMO if my kid was smart, I would still look to send them to a private school, or a grammar school.
In a normal state school you have a lot more disruptive kids in class/playground and I dont want my kid to be around those type of people.
And these disruptive kids can continue being disruptive without the school doing much. I'm saying this based on my own experience, I was around disruptive kids in some of my classes and in the playground for 5 years. I was in top set for Maths in yr 10 and I was pretty much the only person doing work out of 25 in most of the lessons. I had a decent teacher, but he had no respect from the class. I wouldn't want my kid to be in that situation.
I don't think this would be the case in a private school as they wouldn't have to deal with that kind of behavior. Also I think it would help my kid understand the value of education, as their parent is paying a lot of money.
(edited 10 years ago)
Agreed. School should become optional and for those who can afford it only (unless you win a bursary) in return we can reduce taxes to only what is needed to defend this nation's borders and implement the law.
Sarcasm obviously, but really middle class people do pay enough
From what I've seen private schools really do go well beyond just teaching to the exam compared with state schools, the real injustice is how much religious schools (which are still funded by the state) get to skip over sex ed if it conflicts with their world view.
Sarcasm obviously, but really middle class people do pay enough
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Depends on your opinion, I personally don;t like private schools, because I don't like the narrow range of people that go there an the way they can refuse to do stuff like sex education and they way they just teach kids the exams and not actual life skills.
From what I've seen private schools really do go well beyond just teaching to the exam compared with state schools, the real injustice is how much religious schools (which are still funded by the state) get to skip over sex ed if it conflicts with their world view.
(edited 10 years ago)
Interesting that a lot of people are ranting against socialism here.
Their argument seems to be "oh no please don't take away our inherent right to have free education paid for by the state".
Their argument seems to be "oh no please don't take away our inherent right to have free education paid for by the state".
Original post by yo radical one
Agreed. School should become optional and for those who can afford it only (unless you win a bursary) in return we can reduce taxes to only what is needed to defend this nation's borders and implement the law.
Sarcasm obviously, but really middle class people do pay enough
From what I've seen private schools really do go well beyond just teaching to the exam compared with state schools, the real injustice is how much religious schools (which are still funded by the state) get to skip over sex ed if it conflicts with their world view.
Sarcasm obviously, but really middle class people do pay enough
From what I've seen private schools really do go well beyond just teaching to the exam compared with state schools, the real injustice is how much religious schools (which are still funded by the state) get to skip over sex ed if it conflicts with their world view.
Not in the few I've seen, but there probably are decent ones out there. And I agree about religious schools, they should not exist
Original post by Vorsah
yeah I agree, if the private school gets bad results then you wouldn't want to waste your money. And I think your point is really good.
IMO if my kid was smart, I would still look to send them to a private school, or a grammar school.
In a normal state school you have a lot more disruptive kids in class/playground and I dont want my kid to be around those type of people.
And these disruptive kids can continue being disruptive without the school doing much. I'm saying this based on my own experience, I was around disruptive kids in some of my classes and in the playground.
I don't think this would be the case in a private school as they wouldn't have to deal with that kind of behavior. Also I think it would help my kid understand the value of education, as their parent is paying a lot of money.
IMO if my kid was smart, I would still look to send them to a private school, or a grammar school.
In a normal state school you have a lot more disruptive kids in class/playground and I dont want my kid to be around those type of people.
And these disruptive kids can continue being disruptive without the school doing much. I'm saying this based on my own experience, I was around disruptive kids in some of my classes and in the playground.
I don't think this would be the case in a private school as they wouldn't have to deal with that kind of behavior. Also I think it would help my kid understand the value of education, as their parent is paying a lot of money.
I'm not paying 15k a year to make up for my kid's inability to concentrate. I'd hope my parenting would do the job of teaching them not to be diverted because some other kid's mucking about, if they do I'm not going to spend large sums of money compensating for their inability to focus. If they can't grasp that if you don't do the work, whether in or out of school, then they'll perform poorly frankly it's them who suffers not me.
Original post by MagicNMedicine
Their argument seems to be "oh no please don't take away our inherent right to have free education paid for by the state".
Their argument seems to be "oh no please don't take away our inherent right to have free education paid for by the state".
Is it not the case that one has, by law, to send one's children to a school? Complaining about being forced to do something at one's own expense is rather different to complaining about another's failure to provide one with something for free.
In addition, people who just creep over that boundary pay way too much tax as it is, where this, in effect even if not in form, amounts to another large mandatory payment to the state, and a 'right to education' isn't a particularly new idea anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_education
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by MagicNMedicine
Interesting that a lot of people are ranting against socialism here.
Their argument seems to be "oh no please don't take away our inherent right to have free education paid for by the state".
Their argument seems to be "oh no please don't take away our inherent right to have free education paid for by the state".
Original post by Le Nombre
I'm not paying 15k a year to make up for my kid's inability to concentrate. I'd hope my parenting would do the job of teaching them not to be diverted because some other kid's mucking about, if they do I'm not going to spend large sums of money compensating for their inability to focus. If they can't grasp that if you don't do the work, whether in or out of school, then they'll perform poorly frankly it's them who suffers not me.
Agreed. IMO at the end of the day being in an environment where everyone is motivated to learn is better.
Original post by Vorsah
In what case would you say private is not always the best?
In what case would you say private is not always the best?
If it is not a good school
If the child would not benefit from the nature of the school
We have a number of private schools locally
The Girls School is very good but my daughter would not have thrived in an all girl environment
The Boys School is not good - as I said they employ some very poor teachers
The mixed school (a bit of a distance away) seems to be ok up to KS4 but they leave in droves at the start of sixth due to the lack of specialist staff and A Level choices
I would not have considered them anyway as i generally do not favour the private system
As it was my children went to an ok state school, learnt to work hard, learnt that they need to learn independently and not rely on a teacher to do everything, made friends with a range of people from a wide range of backgrounds - they also benefitted from having a parent at home when they were younger and then from a good range of experiences that we could afford because we were not paying for Private Education
I think that every parent makes choices and it is naive to assume that there is only one way to do things
Original post by TenOfThem
If it is not a good school
If the child would not benefit from the nature of the school
We have a number of private schools locally
The Girls School is very good but my daughter would not have thrived in an all girl environment
The Boys School is not good - as I said they employ some very poor teachers
The mixed school (a bit of a distance away) seems to be ok up to KS4 but they leave in droves at the start of sixth due to the lack of specialist staff and A Level choices
I would not have considered them anyway as i generally do not favour the private system
As it was my children went to an ok state school, learnt to work hard, learnt that they need to learn independently and not rely on a teacher to do everything, made friends with a range of people from a wide range of backgrounds - they also benefitted from having a parent at home when they were younger and then from a good range of experiences that we could afford because we were not paying for Private Education
I think that every parent makes choices and it is naive to assume that there is only one way to do things
If the child would not benefit from the nature of the school
We have a number of private schools locally
The Girls School is very good but my daughter would not have thrived in an all girl environment
The Boys School is not good - as I said they employ some very poor teachers
The mixed school (a bit of a distance away) seems to be ok up to KS4 but they leave in droves at the start of sixth due to the lack of specialist staff and A Level choices
I would not have considered them anyway as i generally do not favour the private system
As it was my children went to an ok state school, learnt to work hard, learnt that they need to learn independently and not rely on a teacher to do everything, made friends with a range of people from a wide range of backgrounds - they also benefitted from having a parent at home when they were younger and then from a good range of experiences that we could afford because we were not paying for Private Education
I think that every parent makes choices and it is naive to assume that there is only one way to do things
I don't think if a kid goes to a private school, they don't learn to be independent or rely on the teacher to do everything. And you can still make friends from different backgrounds.
Original post by Vorsah
I don't think if a kid goes to a private school, they don't learn to be independent or rely on the teacher to do everything. And you can still make friends from different backgrounds.
I never said that they don't
But not all do - as I have said over and over - it depends on the school
Original post by TenOfThem
I never said that they don't
But not all do - as I have said over and over - it depends on the school
But not all do - as I have said over and over - it depends on the school
Okay, it's all about opinions, you have your reasons to prefer state over private, I prefer private over state.
I think a lot of people are convinced that all the people that go to private school are posh and in a bubble. That's not necessarily true. In mine a vast majority of people were on bursaries, myself included. What I think was different the teaching standard like everyone else has said is higher simply due to people paying more attention, in higher sets. But lower down the sets you still get people mucking about and not paying attention. The same as in any school, they are still children at the end of the day. The main difference I felt after speaking to my friends at state schools is for example it was actively encouraged to join extra curricular and charity work and people fought to get onto trips taking disabled children to Lourdes. Whereas my friend said she would get mocked for even joining the fair trade society and there wasn't any access to as much extra curricular, I think it's the environment and the culture you're paying for not simply to be spoon fed exam answers, which I don't feel we were.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
In addition, people who just creep over that boundary pay way too much tax as it is, where this, in effect even if not in form, amounts to another large mandatory payment to the state, and a 'right to education' isn't a particularly new idea anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_education
In addition, people who just creep over that boundary pay way too much tax as it is, where this, in effect even if not in form, amounts to another large mandatory payment to the state, and a 'right to education' isn't a particularly new idea anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_education
I just went on the HMRC tax calculator and put in a salary of £80,000 a year. In tax plus national insurance that means they would pay about £26,600.
Of this £3,600 is the share for education.
So surely the fairest way would be:
- Remove the mandatory requirement for them to send their children to school
- Reimburse their £3600 tax contribution so that should they want their children to be educated they can use this to pay for it
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