Widening Participation Rant
So I’m a Year 12 student hoping to apply for uni next year and I’m currently trying to build up super curriculars and increase my knowledge on my chosen subjects. I come from a low-income background, am a first-gen immigrant, and go to a private school.
I have been super proactive all year in trying to apply for schemes which could boost my knowledge by Oxbridge and other Russell Group Universities. I’ve looked at mentoring schemes, summer school even some essay competitions; and all include having a state educated background as part of eligibility criteria.
Do not get me wrong, I completely agree with the fact that state-school students should be given more support and more consideration for these sorts of schemes but I can’t help feeling frustrated.
The HE teacher at my school is nice but not the most supportive and knowledgeable, and it seems like there is this assumption that all private school students are extremely privileged people who have plenty of help when it comes to universities. Although the majority are, I guarantee there are plenty like me who feel unsupported by both their school and university access schemes.
I wish universities (and access scheme providers) could just use more contextual information to assess applications, rather than just using ‘state-school educated’ to tick a box. Not to mention the fact that many grammar school students with incredible resources and staff benefit from these (as they should) but private school students do not.
I do not blame any state schools or students but the universities who are just trying to tick WP boxes without actually caring about helping all students.
I have been super proactive all year in trying to apply for schemes which could boost my knowledge by Oxbridge and other Russell Group Universities. I’ve looked at mentoring schemes, summer school even some essay competitions; and all include having a state educated background as part of eligibility criteria.
Do not get me wrong, I completely agree with the fact that state-school students should be given more support and more consideration for these sorts of schemes but I can’t help feeling frustrated.
The HE teacher at my school is nice but not the most supportive and knowledgeable, and it seems like there is this assumption that all private school students are extremely privileged people who have plenty of help when it comes to universities. Although the majority are, I guarantee there are plenty like me who feel unsupported by both their school and university access schemes.
I wish universities (and access scheme providers) could just use more contextual information to assess applications, rather than just using ‘state-school educated’ to tick a box. Not to mention the fact that many grammar school students with incredible resources and staff benefit from these (as they should) but private school students do not.
I do not blame any state schools or students but the universities who are just trying to tick WP boxes without actually caring about helping all students.
The point of widening participation is to get more people who didn’t go to private school, private school kids make up a disproportionate amount of uni students.
Although you may be from a low income background, I assume you must be on scholarship to your private school then? The connections and the student to teacher ratio is something even grammar school kids couldn’t dream of, my friends in private school had max 15 kids in a class (often 2/3 classes) and that was a big class for them! The amount of support they got with their learning from teachers was a massive advantage over state school students who are in year groups of 300+ students.
Going to a private school means you are not widening participation you are just the traditional and stereotypical student who would go to uni because of the privileges afforded to you by simply attending that school.
Although you may be from a low income background, I assume you must be on scholarship to your private school then? The connections and the student to teacher ratio is something even grammar school kids couldn’t dream of, my friends in private school had max 15 kids in a class (often 2/3 classes) and that was a big class for them! The amount of support they got with their learning from teachers was a massive advantage over state school students who are in year groups of 300+ students.
Going to a private school means you are not widening participation you are just the traditional and stereotypical student who would go to uni because of the privileges afforded to you by simply attending that school.
I think you should do more research into how widening participation schemes actually work. It’s not true at all that they function as ‘tick boxes’ that increase your chances of getting into university. Especially not at Oxford.
Sometimes universities will use grades ‘in context’ of the school or area they are achieved at (getting an A at a school where most people average A’s vs getting an A at a school where most people average C’s).
Private school students are still over-represented at most Russel group universities.
Here’s a video from Oxford which clarifies some of these misconceptions about widening participation schemes
https://youtu.be/Ld5QJaApx4g
Sometimes universities will use grades ‘in context’ of the school or area they are achieved at (getting an A at a school where most people average A’s vs getting an A at a school where most people average C’s).
Private school students are still over-represented at most Russel group universities.
Here’s a video from Oxford which clarifies some of these misconceptions about widening participation schemes
https://youtu.be/Ld5QJaApx4g
Original post by ALEreapp
The point of widening participation is to get more people who didn’t go to private school, private school kids make up a disproportionate amount of uni students.
Although you may be from a low income background, I assume you must be on scholarship to your private school then? The connections and the student to teacher ratio is something even grammar school kids couldn’t dream of, my friends in private school had max 15 kids in a class (often 2/3 classes) and that was a big class for them! The amount of support they got with their learning from teachers was a massive advantage over state school students who are in year groups of 300+ students.
Going to a private school means you are not widening participation you are just the traditional and stereotypical student who would go to uni because of the privileges afforded to you by simply attending that school.
Although you may be from a low income background, I assume you must be on scholarship to your private school then? The connections and the student to teacher ratio is something even grammar school kids couldn’t dream of, my friends in private school had max 15 kids in a class (often 2/3 classes) and that was a big class for them! The amount of support they got with their learning from teachers was a massive advantage over state school students who are in year groups of 300+ students.
Going to a private school means you are not widening participation you are just the traditional and stereotypical student who would go to uni because of the privileges afforded to you by simply attending that school.
The point of my post was to say that in any other sense I would be classed as ‘disadvantaged’. Yes I recognised some of the learning privileges that I get from going to a private school, but I am saying that not all private schools are the same, and the situation you described is not one that I am in.
I never complained about the teaching situation, merely the fact that I would benefit so much from access schemes due to the fact that my parents didn’t go to uni, I was on FSM my whole life, and regardless of the fact that I go to a private school I do not have the ‘connections’ or money to fund any super curricular activities.
I know that state school students are typically more disadvantaged than private school students- the rest of my family go to state schools and I see the opportunities they get from universities who target state schools. I do not get access to any of these opportunities (bearing in mind we come from the exact same background) just because I go to a private school.
The point of my post was to say that in any other sense I would be classed as ‘disadvantaged’. Yes I recognised some of the learning privileges that I get from going to a private school, but I am saying that not all private schools are the same, and the situation you described is not one that I am in.
I never complained about the teaching situation, merely the fact that I would benefit so much from access schemes due to the fact that my parents didn’t go to uni, I was on FSM my whole life, and regardless of the fact that I go to a private school I do not have the ‘connections’ or money to fund any super curricular activities. So in any other sense, I am not the typical high achieving student destined to go to an amazing uni.
It just hits really hard when I see friends and family members take part in things that I could only dream of, even though we come from the exact same background. And let me just say that there is great disparity between the standards that of private schools.
I never complained about the teaching situation, merely the fact that I would benefit so much from access schemes due to the fact that my parents didn’t go to uni, I was on FSM my whole life, and regardless of the fact that I go to a private school I do not have the ‘connections’ or money to fund any super curricular activities. So in any other sense, I am not the typical high achieving student destined to go to an amazing uni.
It just hits really hard when I see friends and family members take part in things that I could only dream of, even though we come from the exact same background. And let me just say that there is great disparity between the standards that of private schools.
Original post by ALEreapp
The point of widening participation is to get more people who didn’t go to private school, private school kids make up a disproportionate amount of uni students.
Although you may be from a low income background, I assume you must be on scholarship to your private school then? The connections and the student to teacher ratio is something even grammar school kids couldn’t dream of, my friends in private school had max 15 kids in a class (often 2/3 classes) and that was a big class for them! The amount of support they got with their learning from teachers was a massive advantage over state school students who are in year groups of 300+ students.
Going to a private school means you are not widening participation you are just the traditional and stereotypical student who would go to uni because of the privileges afforded to you by simply attending that school.
Although you may be from a low income background, I assume you must be on scholarship to your private school then? The connections and the student to teacher ratio is something even grammar school kids couldn’t dream of, my friends in private school had max 15 kids in a class (often 2/3 classes) and that was a big class for them! The amount of support they got with their learning from teachers was a massive advantage over state school students who are in year groups of 300+ students.
Going to a private school means you are not widening participation you are just the traditional and stereotypical student who would go to uni because of the privileges afforded to you by simply attending that school.
Original post by kafka_six
I think you should do more research into how widening participation schemes actually work. It’s not true at all that they function as ‘tick boxes’ that increase your chances of getting into university. Especially not at Oxford.
Sometimes universities will use grades ‘in context’ of the school or area they are achieved at (getting an A at a school where most people average A’s vs getting an A at a school where most people average C’s).
Private school students are still over-represented at most Russel group universities.
Here’s a video from Oxford which clarifies some of these misconceptions about widening participation schemes
https://youtu.be/Ld5QJaApx4g
Sometimes universities will use grades ‘in context’ of the school or area they are achieved at (getting an A at a school where most people average A’s vs getting an A at a school where most people average C’s).
Private school students are still over-represented at most Russel group universities.
Here’s a video from Oxford which clarifies some of these misconceptions about widening participation schemes
https://youtu.be/Ld5QJaApx4g
Yes sorry, I wasn’t really focused on uni admissions as I know the selection process is pretty rigorous for these. I was mainly focusing on extracurricular things like summer schools, access schemes and things like that run by these universities. Thanks for the vid tho!
Why not leave your school and go to a local FE college instead?
If your private school isn’t providing any advantages then leave.
If your private school isn’t providing any advantages then leave.
Original post by PQ
Why not leave your school and go to a local FE college instead?
If your private school isn’t providing any advantages then leave.
If your private school isn’t providing any advantages then leave.
Haha it’s a bit late for that. All my friends are there too so there’s not really any point in leaving so late into my schooling journey.
Original post by Anonymous
Haha it’s a bit late for that. All my friends are there too so there’s not really any point in leaving so late into my schooling journey.
Most FE colleges will accept transfers into yr 13 as long as you’ve been studying qualifications they offer.
you’ll be leaving your friends behind in a year anyway and if they’re good friends then you’ll stay in touch even if you’re at a college instead - think what you could do with the money you would save.
The point is: private education for you is a choice. For most disadvantaged students it isn’t a choice they have on the table. Just because you regret your choice for not offering the advantages you hoped for doesn’t make you disadvantaged - you had a choice that most students didn’t have, that was an advantage.
(edited 10 months ago)
Original post by Anonymous
The point of my post was to say that in any other sense I would be classed as ‘disadvantaged’. Yes I recognised some of the learning privileges that I get from going to a private school, but I am saying that not all private schools are the same, and the situation you described is not one that I am in.
I never complained about the teaching situation, merely the fact that I would benefit so much from access schemes due to the fact that my parents didn’t go to uni, I was on FSM my whole life, and regardless of the fact that I go to a private school I do not have the ‘connections’ or money to fund any super curricular activities.
I know that state school students are typically more disadvantaged than private school students- the rest of my family go to state schools and I see the opportunities they get from universities who target state schools. I do not get access to any of these opportunities (bearing in mind we come from the exact same background) just because I go to a private school.
I never complained about the teaching situation, merely the fact that I would benefit so much from access schemes due to the fact that my parents didn’t go to uni, I was on FSM my whole life, and regardless of the fact that I go to a private school I do not have the ‘connections’ or money to fund any super curricular activities.
I know that state school students are typically more disadvantaged than private school students- the rest of my family go to state schools and I see the opportunities they get from universities who target state schools. I do not get access to any of these opportunities (bearing in mind we come from the exact same background) just because I go to a private school.
You just don’t seem to be able to grasp ‘just because I go to a private school’ is a massive thing. You have in one breath said you do not have the connections but then said you don’t want to leave your friends… your friends ARE those connections, they likely come from very wealthy backgrounds and so if you played your cards right could heavily benefit you.
I struggle to sympathise with you when you could just leave the private school and go to a ‘normal’ school… the fact you’ve been at the private school for atleast a year tells me it is benefitting your education otherwise why would you have stayed?
Original post by ALEreapp
You just don’t seem to be able to grasp ‘just because I go to a private school’ is a massive thing. You have in one breath said you do not have the connections but then said you don’t want to leave your friends… your friends ARE those connections, they likely come from very wealthy backgrounds and so if you played your cards right could heavily benefit you.
I struggle to sympathise with you when you could just leave the private school and go to a ‘normal’ school… the fact you’ve been at the private school for atleast a year tells me it is benefitting your education otherwise why would you have stayed?
I struggle to sympathise with you when you could just leave the private school and go to a ‘normal’ school… the fact you’ve been at the private school for atleast a year tells me it is benefitting your education otherwise why would you have stayed?
I understand why you have this viewpoint as, like I have said above, this is the case for the vast majority of private school students. But I have repeatedly been told (by family and friends who all went to states comprehensives) that in MY case I disadvantaged myself by being at a private school just because of the wide array of opportunities that I cannot partake in at a private school. And it is not so easy as just leaving the school. Once you go to a private school for secondary, you automatically face the same problems even if you leave for sixth form which I heavily considered.
I do get the fact that my situation is a bit different, but the whole gist of my post was that I wish people would just use more context than private/ state. What about this private faith schools that are very cheap and generally pretty rubbish in every aspect? Just saying there’s more than one type of private school they’re not all like Eton or Harrow.
Original post by Anonymous
I understand why you have this viewpoint as, like I have said above, this is the case for the vast majority of private school students. But I have repeatedly been told (by family and friends who all went to states comprehensives) that in MY case I disadvantaged myself by being at a private school just because of the wide array of opportunities that I cannot partake in at a private school. And it is not so easy as just leaving the school. Once you go to a private school for secondary, you automatically face the same problems even if you leave for sixth form which I heavily considered.
I do get the fact that my situation is a bit different, but the whole gist of my post was that I wish people would just use more context than private/ state. What about this private faith schools that are very cheap and generally pretty rubbish in every aspect? Just saying there’s more than one type of private school they’re not all like Eton or Harrow.
I do get the fact that my situation is a bit different, but the whole gist of my post was that I wish people would just use more context than private/ state. What about this private faith schools that are very cheap and generally pretty rubbish in every aspect? Just saying there’s more than one type of private school they’re not all like Eton or Harrow.
If a private school is rubbish, I wonder what the point in going is? Especially for the paying students...
If there are access to opportunities in your private school but you can't afford it, why are they not supporting you? I would assume as a scholarship student, it is common sense that you need extra support compared to your well-off peers so that you can get the best out of the school experience?
It sounds like you go to a bad school. Of course there are bad private schools just as there are bad public ones. But the whole point in access schemes excluding private schools are the people attending the school, ones who can afford access to a lot in or outside their bad/good private schools or with family connections.
Unis probably assume a private school would have their low-income scholarship students well looked after, more equipped than a public school with limited funding can do for their low-income students.
Is it harsh to say that it isn't their fault nor their duty to look into why your school didn't do that for you....?
Especially really competitive courses/uni's, idk if you can find a slim chance of explaining your unique circumstance and having someone listen...I think perhaps it's time to put access schemes on a backseat for now since its a missed opportunity and focus on what can realistically be done to get to the best place you can
Original post by Anonymous
I understand why you have this viewpoint as, like I have said above, this is the case for the vast majority of private school students. But I have repeatedly been told (by family and friends who all went to states comprehensives) that in MY case I disadvantaged myself by being at a private school just because of the wide array of opportunities that I cannot partake in at a private school. And it is not so easy as just leaving the school. Once you go to a private school for secondary, you automatically face the same problems even if you leave for sixth form which I heavily considered.
I do get the fact that my situation is a bit different, but the whole gist of my post was that I wish people would just use more context than private/ state. What about this private faith schools that are very cheap and generally pretty rubbish in every aspect? Just saying there’s more than one type of private school they’re not all like Eton or Harrow.
I do get the fact that my situation is a bit different, but the whole gist of my post was that I wish people would just use more context than private/ state. What about this private faith schools that are very cheap and generally pretty rubbish in every aspect? Just saying there’s more than one type of private school they’re not all like Eton or Harrow.
You are ignoring all the facilities and opportunities you have had at the private school - small classes, lots of school visits etc. Your are not in the same position someone in a state school would be. There are summer school open to Private school students anyway ...
It's been a few years since I looked at stuff like that but from what I remember, most of these schemes or similar things didn't just offer widening participation solely on what kind of school you go to. Most also took into account low-income, minority background, first-gen uni student etc. you mention that you're from a low-income, first-gen immigrant background, there's definitely schemes etc. that you may fit the widening participation criteria for. Have you thought about the fact that state-school students may simply just be superior candidates compared to you regardless of socio-economic status.
also for example consider the fact that 31.9% of Oxford intake in 2022 was from independent schools yet only 6.4% of people in England were in private education. You are definitely still at an advantage, state-school educated people are disproportionately represented in Oxbridge and other Russell Group unis
also for example consider the fact that 31.9% of Oxford intake in 2022 was from independent schools yet only 6.4% of people in England were in private education. You are definitely still at an advantage, state-school educated people are disproportionately represented in Oxbridge and other Russell Group unis
Original post by Anonymous
I understand why you have this viewpoint as, like I have said above, this is the case for the vast majority of private school students. But I have repeatedly been told (by family and friends who all went to states comprehensives) that in MY case I disadvantaged myself by being at a private school just because of the wide array of opportunities that I cannot partake in at a private school. And it is not so easy as just leaving the school. Once you go to a private school for secondary, you automatically face the same problems even if you leave for sixth form which I heavily considered.
I do get the fact that my situation is a bit different, but the whole gist of my post was that I wish people would just use more context than private/ state. What about this private faith schools that are very cheap and generally pretty rubbish in every aspect? Just saying there’s more than one type of private school they’re not all like Eton or Harrow.
I do get the fact that my situation is a bit different, but the whole gist of my post was that I wish people would just use more context than private/ state. What about this private faith schools that are very cheap and generally pretty rubbish in every aspect? Just saying there’s more than one type of private school they’re not all like Eton or Harrow.
I don’t think you are quite grasping even ‘bad’ private schools provide so much more than some of the best state schools.
Here’s some perspective for you, the college I have just finished attending was so underfunded they cant afford to open on Fridays, that meant low income students who rely on FSM don’t get them, the free breakfast they provide every morning to anyone without judgement isn’t there, in the winter months the only warmth some students get is in that college and they now can’t do that 5 days a week…
You are heavily educationally supported whether you think you are or not by that private school.
hello
do you receive interview practise in preparation for the Oxford interview?
also, Oxford hosts on-site summer programmes and provides support for subject admissions tests
do you receive interview practise in preparation for the Oxford interview?
also, Oxford hosts on-site summer programmes and provides support for subject admissions tests
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