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Viviane Reding- EU want control of UK justice system, own spies & immigrant rights

Very worrying from the EU their lust for power never ends. In a speech she made some shocking statements

EU wants complete control of UK justice by 2020-'On this basis, the goal of the next generation of EU justice policy should be to bring about a fully functioning common area of justice by 2020 in which justice and citizens' rights will know no borders anymore.'

They want their own spy agency to keep the UK in line-Ms Reding also wishes set-up a dedicated intelligence agency to rival MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. She says the new spy agency is needed to keep track on the surveillance activities of GCHQ.

Also want to give immigrants even more rights because the UK were questioning free movement- 'In a pointed reference to Britain, Ms Reding said new rules were vital at a time when 'the right to free movement of EU citizens is being challenged by some'.

Dictatorship here we come

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572566/EU-demands-Britain-gives-rights-migrants-Commissioner-wants-citizens-enjoy-rights-home-member-states.html

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Original post by Ace123
Very worrying from the EU their lust for power never ends. In a speech she made some shocking statements

EU wants complete control of UK justice by 2020-'On this basis, the goal of the next generation of EU justice policy should be to bring about a fully functioning common area of justice by 2020 in which justice and citizens' rights will know no borders anymore.'

They want their own spy agency to keep the UK in line-Ms Reding also wishes set-up a dedicated intelligence agency to rival MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. She says the new spy agency is needed to keep track on the surveillance activities of GCHQ.

Also want to give immigrants even more rights because the UK were questioning free movement- 'In a pointed reference to Britain, Ms Reding said new rules were vital at a time when 'the right to free movement of EU citizens is being challenged by some'.

Dictatorship here we come

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572566/EU-demands-Britain-gives-rights-migrants-Commissioner-wants-citizens-enjoy-rights-home-member-states.html


Very vague proposals by one of the 28 EU commissioners. Is this really anything to be worried about? The blueprint would need to be approved by the Justice and Home Affairs Council. Viviane Reding can't act like a 'dictator' and just do whatever she wants. In addition, these proposals would also need approval from both the Council of Europe and the European Parliament.

The article does not state that she wants the EU to take control of UK spy agencies, but rather that she wants the EU to have its own intelligency agency.

She doesn't want the EU to give immigrants MORE rights, she wants the EU to continue PROTECTING the rights that EU citizens (including migrants) already have (many of which are benefical to all):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union#Legal_status
Reply 2
Last time Germany tried overstepping their mark it didn't go down too well ...
Reply 3
Original post by Skip_Snip
Last time Germany tried overstepping their mark it didn't go down too well ...


She's not from Germany, she's from Luxembourg. Unless you're referring to something in the article in which case I apologise, as I didn't read it being that I generally avoid the daily mail.
Reply 4
Original post by ohlalanats
She's not from Germany, she's from Luxembourg. Unless you're referring to something in the article in which case I apologise, as I didn't read it being that I generally avoid the daily mail.


TBH I just skimmed so the misunderstaning would be on my part =p it's just because the EU is run from Germany, soo yeah.
Original post by Skip_Snip
TBH I just skimmed so the misunderstaning would be on my part =p it's just because the EU is run from Germany, soo yeah.


Isn't it run from Brussels? (Belgium)
Reply 6
I'm not opposed to a common EU justice area, at least for violent crimes.

I do oppose them having another intelligence service (the less competition ours have, the better).

The free movement stuff just sounds like rhetoric.
Reply 7
This drive to homogenize EU countries is pure stupidity. We have very little in common with countries on the other side of Europe so why would it be in our interest to behave like them. There are social and economic boundaries within Europe and ignoring them does no good.
Reply 8
Original post by Aoide
This drive to homogenize EU countries is pure stupidity. We have very little in common with countries on the other side of Europe so why would it be in our interest to behave like them. There are social and economic boundaries within Europe and ignoring them does no good.


I'm interested to know what it is that you view as being most important to have common interests and similarities in?
Reply 9
Original post by Mockery
I'm interested to know what it is that you view as being most important to have common interests and similarities in?


Given the complexity of cultures I couldn't provide single aspects which are the most important since cultures have different combinations of values in different amounts, although I guess an example might be the balance between state intervention and personal freedom. Having similar economic positions is certainly of significance, it is impossible to demand an impoverished nation to implement the same policies as one with a blooming economy and ridiculous to expect them to have the same effect.

In a more general sense I was referring to the different social values and economic climates across Europe. Implementing single policies across such a wide, varied region is not going to produce optimal results or happy populations. I don't think it important to have similarities, I think that we just need to accept that when we don't agree on basic principle our societies will reflect that and a one size fits all approach is not viable.

Policies (especially those aimed at social issues such as justice) need to be tailored to the society they are implemented in, in order to produce desirable results and maintain mass support. Across Europe different countries face different problems and to suggest one solution fits all shows a complete lack of understanding towards the diversity in Europe.
Reply 10
Original post by Aoide
This drive to homogenize EU countries is pure stupidity. We have very little in common with countries on the other side of Europe so why would it be in our interest to behave like them. There are social and economic boundaries within Europe and ignoring them does no good.


Why you have my sympathy on economic matters i'm interested to see why you need a homogeneous culture for a common justice area. It seems to me that if we can create a common definition of what constitutes the worst crimes (murder, rape, assault) then it would be good to just send them to a single European court and allow a countries to bid for the prisons to be built there.
Original post by Ace123
Very worrying from the EU their lust for power never ends. In a speech she made some shocking statements

EU wants complete control of UK justice by 2020-'On this basis, the goal of the next generation of EU justice policy should be to bring about a fully functioning common area of justice by 2020 in which justice and citizens' rights will know no borders anymore.'

They want their own spy agency to keep the UK in line-Ms Reding also wishes set-up a dedicated intelligence agency to rival MI5, MI6 and GCHQ. She says the new spy agency is needed to keep track on the surveillance activities of GCHQ.

Also want to give immigrants even more rights because the UK were questioning free movement- 'In a pointed reference to Britain, Ms Reding said new rules were vital at a time when 'the right to free movement of EU citizens is being challenged by some'.

Dictatorship here we come

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572566/EU-demands-Britain-gives-rights-migrants-Commissioner-wants-citizens-enjoy-rights-home-member-states.html


I bet this is what Harry felt like when Umbridge took over :/
There is no better people to make decisions for a country than those from the country in question.
Reply 13
Original post by Snagprophet
There is no better people to make decisions for a country than those from the country in question.


Not always. Devolution in Wales has actually resulted in them falling back versus the rest of the UK.

But anyhow, I've still yet to hear properly why a common justice area (i imagine a common definition of various crimes) would be a bad idea.
Original post by Rakas21
Not always. Devolution in Wales has actually resulted in them falling back versus the rest of the UK.


Yes.
Reply 15
Original post by Snagprophet
Yes.


Edited my post. ^
Original post by Rakas21
Edited my post. ^


Yes.
Original post by Rakas21


But anyhow, I've still yet to hear properly why a common justice area (i imagine a common definition of various crimes) would be a bad idea.


Then you imagine wrongly. What a common justice area means is that the civil law in large areas is made the same in each EU country.

So, in France and Spain and Scotland there is not complete freedom to leave your property by Will. If you have a common European law of inheritance, then either those countries or ourselves and Ireland will have to change.

In many countries in Europe it is virtually impossible to sue a lawyer for negligence. As a result their legal systems are cheaper because the cost of professional indemnity insurance is much lower. If your lawyer makes a mistake do you want to be told you cannot sue him because of EU rules? Do other countries want the cost of legal advice to double because of the cost of insurance?
Reply 18
One Commissioner giving her opinion on what she thinks is in the best interests of the European Union. What a surprise. That's her job. She might be entirely wrong. She might be entirely right. But to dress this up as some kind of evil scheming attempt at a power-grab by Brussels is to equate any law passed by Westminster to be the same. Actually, it's not even that. It's akin to Nick Clegg saying we should do something, and we know how much that matters.

And really? Saying it's the route to a dictatorship? Seeing as Britain has an MI5 and a judiciary, are we a dictatorship for having them? All you can say is that instead of it being exclusively British it would be in part European. That may be a good thing, it may not. But it's something that should be approved or rejected on its merits, not a knee-jerk reaction to a tin-hat conspiracy theory.
Reply 19
Original post by Rakas21
Why you have my sympathy on economic matters i'm interested to see why you need a homogeneous culture for a common justice area. It seems to me that if we can create a common definition of what constitutes the worst crimes (murder, rape, assault) then it would be good to just send them to a single European court and allow a countries to bid for the prisons to be built there.


I'm not saying that it is bad to make a single justice system if we can find one we agree on. I'm suggesting that finding a system which pleases all the countries involved is going to be almost impossibl and it will likely end up with countries being pressured into compromising and giving up their right to decide how their own criminals are treated.

Treating them with a single justice system requires all the countries involved to agree on multiple aspects- among other things which crimes are considered the most serious, the focus of the justice system (rehab vs punishment) and how extreme the sentencing needs to be. They also need to have the exact same definition of what actions are considered criminal, it would be highly hypocritical for a country to handle prisoners which committed acts they don't consider criminal.

Considering the varying opinions between people in the UK about what should be a crime and how criminals should be treated I don't think it is reasonable to expect us to have enough common ground with individuals in countries across the continent.

Even if it is possible to find an agreement which all the participating countries agree with taking justice out of the hands of individual countries binds them to this agreement and will lead to difficult situations should a country's views on crime and justice diverge to the point they no longer support the agreement.

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