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Law in the U.S
Hi i'm hoping to do a law conversion course after i finish my current degree in the u.k. However i was just wondering if after completing the uk law conversion course and the LPC, if it still possible to work as a lawyer in the U.S?
How exactly can you work as a lawyer in the U.S, im guesing you have to take another course or do another american law degree in order to understand american law? If so...how long is the course?
How exactly can you work as a lawyer in the U.S, im guesing you have to take another course or do another american law degree in order to understand american law? If so...how long is the course?
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From my understanding, you would have to do the CPE and the LPC, then a training contract and be admitted as a Solicitor here in the UK. You would then have to do a course that involves at least 20 hours of study per semester at an American Bar Association approved law school in the US. The most common way to do this is usually through an LLM.
Here are the official rules from the New York state board of legal examiners: http://www.nybarexam.org/foreign.htm
New York or California would be your best bet by the way - most other states require a JD for admission to the bar.
Also bear in mind that American employers prefer to hire applicants with JDs rather than LLMs. I hear tell the job market for foreign-trained lawyers in the USA is very tough...
Hope this helps!
Here are the official rules from the New York state board of legal examiners: http://www.nybarexam.org/foreign.htm
New York or California would be your best bet by the way - most other states require a JD for admission to the bar.
Also bear in mind that American employers prefer to hire applicants with JDs rather than LLMs. I hear tell the job market for foreign-trained lawyers in the USA is very tough...
Hope this helps!
Ethereal
You don't need to do the 20 hours study. An LLB from an English uni is the equivalent to an American JD. With an honours LLB you can sit the New York Bar exam and if you pass you are qualified to work in the state of New York.
Exactly right. Both the US and the UK use common law, so as long as you pass the Bar, you are qualified to practice. Keep in mind that the Bar is a state-by-state qualification, not a national one. You're going to have to check with the state that you wish to practice in to see if they will allow you to sit the Bar Exam with your LLB.
Ethereal
You don't need to do the 20 hours study. An LLB from an English uni is the equivalent to an American JD. With an honours LLB you can sit the New York Bar exam and if you pass you are qualified to work in the state of New York.
Hi,
I just wondered why UCL would offer a LLB/JD joint degree if they were the equivalents of eachother?
Because obviously you acquire a much more detailed knowledge of US law that way. You CAN qualify in the US with an LLB but I would suggest that you would find it harder to get a job than if you had an LLB and JD from either UCL/LSE or anyone else who may offer it.
A fortune is the short answer, daddy needs much money. Its about 17k or something daft.
Also I'm not sure how you expect to get hired or even pass the bar with no/limited understanding of American law if you do an LLB in the UK!
There are Americans who will be much older, have more life and educational experience, and have knowledge of American law applying for the same jobs.
So either do the JD or an LLM in the US if you want hope for a job, or just go the UK route, get hired by an international firm, and try to transfer to the US.
There are Americans who will be much older, have more life and educational experience, and have knowledge of American law applying for the same jobs.
So either do the JD or an LLM in the US if you want hope for a job, or just go the UK route, get hired by an international firm, and try to transfer to the US.
shady lane
Also I'm not sure how you expect to get hired or even pass the bar with no/limited understanding of American law if you do an LLB in the UK!
There are Americans who will be much older, have more life and educational experience, and have knowledge of American law applying for the same jobs.
So either do the JD or an LLM in the US if you want hope for a job, or just go the UK route, get hired by an international firm, and try to transfer to the US.
There are Americans who will be much older, have more life and educational experience, and have knowledge of American law applying for the same jobs.
So either do the JD or an LLM in the US if you want hope for a job, or just go the UK route, get hired by an international firm, and try to transfer to the US.
How? I wouldn't say a person has more educational experience merely because it takes longer to gain an equivalent qualification.
Pretty Boy
That actually sounds like a fantastic qualification to have on your CV. If I had my time again, I would definitely do that.
How much does it cost?
P.S. to ethereal et al, i think the OP is doing a CPE.
How much does it cost?
P.S. to ethereal et al, i think the OP is doing a CPE.
I think it's $30,000 a year, I cant remember though it was posted a few threads ago.
Angelic_19
Hi i'm hoping to do a law conversion course after i finish my current degree in the u.k. However i was just wondering if after completing the uk law conversion course and the LPC, if it still possible to work as a lawyer in the U.S?
How exactly can you work as a lawyer in the U.S, im guesing you have to take another course or do another american law degree in order to understand american law? If so...how long is the course?
How exactly can you work as a lawyer in the U.S, im guesing you have to take another course or do another american law degree in order to understand american law? If so...how long is the course?
You could do an LLM after the CPE work in an American firm in the UK, sit the bar exams and ask to be transferred to their NY office.
Ethereal
How? I wouldn't say a person has more educational experience merely because it takes longer to gain an equivalent qualification.
4 years for BA/BSc plus 3 years for JD is definitely more educational experience than an LLB. Most big US firms would hire a 25/26 year old with a JD over a 21 year old Brit with just a bachelor's and no education in terms of American law.
exactly what I was suggesting above also.
shady lane
4 years for BA/BSc plus 3 years for JD is definitely more educational experience than an LLB. Most big US firms would hire a 25/26 year old with a JD over a 21 year old Brit with just a bachelor's and no education in terms of American law.
Except that our Bachelors are actually equivalent to the JD ergo it's not "just a bachelors". Don't assume because law in America is a post grad qualification it is harder. It isn't. Furthermore, knowledge of American law isn't necessarily needed. The ability to research it is. Having completed an LLB sucessfully it is likely the English graduate will have the necessary skills to research just like their american counterparts need to do in order to practice effectively.
Ethereal
Except that our Bachelors are actually equivalent to the JD ergo it's not "just a bachelors". Don't assume because law in America is a post grad qualification it is harder. It isn't. Furthermore, knowledge of American law isn't necessarily needed. The ability to research it is. Having completed an LLB sucessfully it is likely the English graduate will have the necessary skills to research just like their american counterparts need to do in order to practice effectively.
I never said an LLB is not as good as a JD.
I said someone with a BA and a JD has more educational experience than someone with just an LLB. 7 years versus 3 years in a university environment. They also will have the additional background from the BA in whatever discipline they studied to add.
I said nothing about skills. But once again, an LLB in the UK teaches little to nothing about American law. I don't know why you think a top US firm would consider an LLB applicant--and in fact, they rarely do.
Why are you being so defensive and arguing over this?
shady lane
I never said an LLB is not as good as a JD.
I said someone with a BA and a JD has more educational experience than someone with just an LLB. 7 years versus 3 years in a university environment. They also will have the additional background from the BA in whatever discipline they studied to add.
I said nothing about skills. But once again, an LLB in the UK teaches little to nothing about American law. I don't know why you think a top US firm would consider an LLB applicant--and in fact, they rarely do.
Why are you being so defensive and arguing over this?
I said someone with a BA and a JD has more educational experience than someone with just an LLB. 7 years versus 3 years in a university environment. They also will have the additional background from the BA in whatever discipline they studied to add.
I said nothing about skills. But once again, an LLB in the UK teaches little to nothing about American law. I don't know why you think a top US firm would consider an LLB applicant--and in fact, they rarely do.
Why are you being so defensive and arguing over this?
I'm merely pointing out the fallacy of your argument. Firms may not employ English graduates, but that is because they are biased in favour of American graduates. This is understandable because they are, after all, american firms but university experience doesn't make any difference. The fact it takes 7 years to get the necessary degree in America and only 3 here merely shows a difference in educational system and quality. If university experience made people more employable you would have more Solicitors in the UK with a PhD.
^^
You are highly emotional and overly defensive. For the last time I never commented on the quality of UK education, but rather on the benefits of age and life experience when applying for jobs. And also the fact that only 2 US states allow LLB gradutes to apply to the bar.
And actually I've heard that Magic Circle firms in London are now showing a preference towards students with non-law bachelor's degrees and GDLs, so there is a preference for UK lawyers with more educational experience.
If you intend to be a lawyer I'd suggest you use rational arguments instead of emotional ones.
You are highly emotional and overly defensive. For the last time I never commented on the quality of UK education, but rather on the benefits of age and life experience when applying for jobs. And also the fact that only 2 US states allow LLB gradutes to apply to the bar.
And actually I've heard that Magic Circle firms in London are now showing a preference towards students with non-law bachelor's degrees and GDLs, so there is a preference for UK lawyers with more educational experience.
If you intend to be a lawyer I'd suggest you use rational arguments instead of emotional ones.
shady lane
^^
You are highly emotional and overly defensive. For the last time I never commented on the quality of UK education, but rather on the benefits of age and life experience when applying for jobs. And also the fact that only 2 US states allow LLB gradutes to apply to the bar.
And actually I've heard that Magic Circle firms in London are now showing a preference towards students with non-law bacherlo's degrees and GDLs, so there is a preference for UK lawyers with more educational experience.
If you intend to be a lawyer I'd suggest you use rational arguments instead of emotional ones.
You are highly emotional and overly defensive. For the last time I never commented on the quality of UK education, but rather on the benefits of age and life experience when applying for jobs. And also the fact that only 2 US states allow LLB gradutes to apply to the bar.
And actually I've heard that Magic Circle firms in London are now showing a preference towards students with non-law bacherlo's degrees and GDLs, so there is a preference for UK lawyers with more educational experience.
If you intend to be a lawyer I'd suggest you use rational arguments instead of emotional ones.
There is nothing emotional in my arguments at all. Yet another logical fallacy. Lawyers in the UK with a Bachelors in another discipline and a GDL are particularly useful where an area of law requires knowledge of the original discipline for example Biological Research. Other than that, there is no specific advantage to having more time at uni, especially as the GDL is only a year or two more at the most.
I fail to see how more time at uni gives you more life experience either. I'm sad to say it, but University is nothing like real life. Life experience is gained through supporting yourself and working, not through studying. Educational experience is learned through studying.
Ethereal
There is nothing emotional in my arguments at all. Yet another logical fallacy. Lawyers in the UK with a Bachelors in another discipline and a GDL are particularly useful where an area of law requires knowledge of the original discipline for example Biological Research. Other than that, there is no specific advantage to having more time at uni, especially as the GDL is only a year or two more at the most.
I fail to see how more time at uni gives you more life experience either. I'm sad to say it, but University is nothing like real life. Life experience is gained through supporting yourself and working, not through studying. Educational experience is learned through studying.
I fail to see how more time at uni gives you more life experience either. I'm sad to say it, but University is nothing like real life. Life experience is gained through supporting yourself and working, not through studying. Educational experience is learned through studying.
There is a vast difference between a 21 year old who has graduated with an LLB and a 26 year old with a BA/JD. At most law schools in the US people take time off between BA and JD, so they are often 28 or 29 when they graduate! I had many law student friends at Stanford, a number of whom were married and had careers before going to law school. So there is a big difference, I'm sorry. Most GDL students have also taken time to work and realized later that they want to go into law, same thing.
Anyway I was trying to explain to the OP and others what the real situation is like in the US. You can preach all you want about how great the UK education system is, but at the end of the day, an LLB will almost never get you a good job at a top law firm in the US. Most of the applicants have JDs from Harvard, Stanford, NYU, Columbia, Yale, etc, plus work experience and BAs in a multitude of subjects. An LLB is not competitive in the US. End of story.
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