The Student Room Group

The hard limits thread

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Original post by atsruser
But if you're happy to accept a rather nice proof by incredulity, I'd say that we seem to be requiring that we can find an arbitrarily good rational approximation to a real, and I'd be very surprised indeed if someone hasn't already show that that is true. I mean, it stands to reason, doesn't it?

In a metric space (X,δ)(X,\delta), dist(A,B)=inf{δ(a,b)aA,bB}\text{dist}\,(A,B)=\inf\{ \delta(a,b)\,|\,a\in A,\,b\in B\} where A,BXA,B\subseteq X. In vague terms it is the (closest) distance between two sets (note that this being zero does not imply that both sets share a common point).

The problem is not parallel to approximating reals with rationals: that is talking about Q\mathbb{Q} being dense in R\mathbb{R}. Here Z\mathbb{Z}^* and αZ\alpha \mathbb{Z}^* are not subsets of each other, if α\alpha irrational, and one cannot pick an element of one and find elements in the other that are arbitrarily close to it. It is more a case two sets flirting with each other.
Reply 61
Original post by Lord of the Flies
In a metric space (X,δ)(X,\delta), dist(A,B)=inf{δ(a,b)aA,bB}\text{dist}\,(A,B)=\inf\{ \delta(a,b)\,|\,a\in A,\,b\in B\} where A,BXA,B\subseteq X. In vague terms it is the (closest) distance between two sets (note that this being zero does not imply that both sets share a common point).

The problem is not parallel to approximating reals with rationals: that is talking about Q\mathbb{Q} being dense in R\mathbb{R}. Here Z\mathbb{Z}^* and αZ\alpha \mathbb{Z}^* are not subsets of each other, if α\alpha irrational, and one cannot pick an element of one and find elements in the other that are arbitrarily close to it. It is more a case two sets flirting with each other.


I'll have to come back to this after I've had some time to read up on metric spaces cos I've forgotten most of what I knew - you've confused me a bit with the statement "Here Z\mathbb{Z}^* and αZ\alpha \mathbb{Z}^* are not subsets of each other" - isn't a set a subset of its closure? Maybe I'm missing the point.
Reply 62
Original post by z_of_8.1
12a\displaystyle\frac{1}{2 \sqrt{a}}


Right. It'd be nice to see some working though.
Original post by atsruser
Right. It'd be nice to see some working though.


So long since I have used Tex I couldn't be bothered. Anyway - this is a trivial limit just by binomial expansion. I only posted the answer to see how if TSR accepted standard Tex.
Original post by atsruser
I'll have to come back to this after I've had some time to read up on metric spaces cos I've forgotten most of what I knew - you've confused me a bit with the statement "Here Z\mathbb{Z}^* and αZ\alpha \mathbb{Z}^* are not subsets of each other" - isn't a set a subset of its closure? Maybe I'm missing the point.


I think there's been a notational confusion: Z={1,1,2,},  αZ={α,α,2α,}\mathbb{Z}^* = \{ \cdots-1,\,1,\, 2,\cdots\},\;\alpha \mathbb{Z}^*=\{ \cdots-\alpha,\,\alpha,\, 2\alpha,\cdots\}
Reply 65
Original post by atsruser
Find limx(2n+1)π2cosectan2xx\displaystyle \lim_{x \to \frac{(2n+1)\pi}{2}} \text{cosec}^{\tan^2 x} x


Hint: let u=tanxu=\tan x
Reply 66
Original post by atsruser
Find limnk=1n14n2k2\displaystyle \lim_{n \to \infty} \sum_{k=1}^n \frac{1}{\sqrt{4n^2-k^2}}


Hint:

1. This is, in fact, an integral ..

Spoiler

Reply 67
Original post by atsruser
Find
Unparseable latex formula:

\displaystyle \lim_{x \to \infty} \Big( \frac{\log(e \log x)}{\log(\log x)} \Big )^\log(\log^e(x))



Hint: Apply the laws of logs to simplify, then consider the behaviour of loglogx\log \log x as xx \to \infty
Original post by atsruser
Find limnk=1n14n2k2\displaystyle \lim_{n \to \infty} \sum_{k=1}^n \frac{1}{\sqrt{4n^2-k^2}}

Spoiler

Resurrecting this thread...

A level students:

Unparseable latex formula:

\displaystyle \lim_{x \rightarrow 0} \frac{e^x - e^-^x}{x}



limx01cos(2x)x \displaystyle \lim_{x \rightarrow 0} \frac{1-\cos(2x)}{x}

Anyone know where I can find tricky problems without the need of appealing to Mr L'Hopital's Rule
Reply 70
Original post by LelouchViRuge
Anyone know where I can find tricky problems without the need of appealing to Mr L'Hopital's Rule


What d'you mean by this? You don't need to use L'Hop, you can always just use another technique. If you mean making limits that aren't do-able easily using L'Hop, then you can always make them up yourself with conditions that don't satisfy L'Hop's criterion.
Original post by Zacken
...


Bad wording on my part, was rushing to get something to eat :tongue:

Original post by Zacken
then you can always make them up yourself with conditions that don't satisfy L'Hop's criterion.


I'm too lazy to do this :blush:
Reply 72
limx81x32+x3\displaystyle \lim_{x \to -8} \frac{\sqrt{1-x} - 3}{2 + \sqrt[3]{x}}
Reply 73
Original post by Zacken
limx81x32+x3\displaystyle \lim_{x \to -8} \frac{\sqrt{1-x} - 3}{2 + \sqrt[3]{x}}


Spoiler



Apropos de not much, why are there so many f'ing popups on this site. I don't want to be interrupted while posting or browsing. Much more and I'll be off elsewhere.
Reply 74
Original post by atsruser

Spoiler



:yes: Was the L'Hopital fairly ugly? (edit: scrap that, it's not. I thought it would be, for some reason.)

I thought that this was very neat:

Spoiler

(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 75
Original post by Zacken

I thought that this was very neat:

Spoiler



Very nice. I thought that there would be some slick way to do it. One of yours?
Reply 76
Find limx12sin1(x32121x2)2x1\displaystyle \lim_{x \to \frac{1}{2}} \frac{\sin^{-1}(\frac{x \sqrt{3}}{2}-\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{1-x^2})}{2x-1}
I don't know that this would be classified as 'hard', but it's a nice one:

limx0sinaxsinbx\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} \dfrac{\sin ax}{\sin bx}

Give result with a rigorous proof :smile:.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 78
Original post by IrrationalRoot
I don't know that this would be classified as 'hard', but it's a nice one:

limx0sinaxsinbx\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} \dfrac{\sin ax}{\sin bx}

Give result with a rigorous proof :smile:.


Ah, this is nice. By L'Hop: limx0sinaxsinbx=limx0acosaxbcosax=ab\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} \frac{\sin ax}{\sin bx} = \lim_{x \to 0}\frac{a\cos ax}{b\cos ax} = \frac{a}{b}

Alternatively, Taylor expand: limx0sinaxsinbx=limx0ax+O(x3)bx+O(x3)=limx0a+O(x2)b+O(x2)=ab\displaystyle \lim_{x\to 0} \frac{\sin ax}{\sin bx} = \lim_{x \to 0} \frac{ax + \mathcal{O}(x^3)}{bx + \mathcal{O}(x^3)} = \lim_{x \to 0}\frac{a + \mathcal{O}(x^2)}{b + \mathcal{O}(x^2)} = \frac{a}{b}
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Zacken
Ah, this is nice. By L'Hop: limx0sinaxsinbx=limx0acosaxbcosax=ab\displaystyle \lim_{x \to 0} \frac{\sin ax}{\sin bx} = \lim_{x \to 0}\frac{a\cos ax}{b\cos ax} = \frac{a}{b}

Alternatively, Taylor expand: limx0sinaxsinbx=limx0ax+O(x3)bx+o(x3)=limx0a+O(x2)b+O(x2)=ab\displaystyle \lim_{x\to 0} \frac{\sin ax}{\sin bx} = \lim_{x \to 0} \frac{ax + \mathcal{O}(x^3)}{bx + \mathcal{o}(x^3)} = \lim_{x \to 0}\frac{a + \mathcal{O}(x^2)}{b + \mathcal{O}(x^2)} = \frac{a}{b}


Gosh that's some funky machinery in that last part.
How about without L'Hop or Taylor?
(What I mean is try to do it without quoting any 'theorems' or 'rules' :smile:.)
(edited 8 years ago)

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