The Student Room Group

3rd Feb: Talking About Trans

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flashback to when my friend came out to me as trans and it autocorrected to 'trains'.
in all seriousness, she has had it quite hard, and I am happy to be part of her life, I just wish people were more accepting to her preferred gender.
As trans* non binary (afab), I find it quite difficult to get people to understand my gender identity. I identify as agender genderflux, which there is a proper term for, but this way is lot easier to explain. I'm not out to my parents but I dress in quite an androgynous way and they pretty much let me wear whatever I want (yippee for confusing people). Fair enough, I have a feminine side and I love my makeup but I get quite dysphoric about the rest of my body.

What I have found the hardest is getting people to use my pronouns (xe/xyr or they/them). People refuse to use xe because they don't understand how that pronoun works but the bigger problem is not using they because they see it as a plural pronoun even though we use it in a singular context almost every day. Most of the people I am out to are referring to me as Phoenix though which is quite nice but it doesn't cancel out not using pronouns.

I feel that these days many people see that being trans* is all happiness and pride when it's not. It's hating yourself everyday and tearing at your body and hating your mind for what it's doing to you. I hope that once I go to uni and I have a fresh start, I can start presenting a lot more masculine and reduce my dysphoria and hopefully buy a binder because I currently use quite an unsafe method.
I don't actually personally know any transgender people, but honestly I can't imagine it would be that difficult to switch pronouns? Like, ok, when our cat had kittens we mis-sexed one as a girl and when we took him to the vet he turned out to be a boy, and yea for like a day we got pronouns mixed up because yea we were used to calling him she. But after that? Not really. All in all, it was pretty easy to switch pronouns.

If it takes you six months to get used to using different pronouns, you're not really trying at all.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 23
Original post by Anonymous
x

Regardless, I'm not going to give my opinion on transgenderism, as it will just get me censored, and that's boring.
(edited 8 years ago)
A friend came out to me as a trans-woman (as in my friend, let's call her R, was born male but identifies as female - is use of the term trans-woman correct here?! I still get easily confused about these things :colondollar: ) a while back. It was very sudden and completely out of the blue - I had literally had no idea that R had been struggling with her identity. I think I was one of the first - if not THE first people - she told. I was very surprised by her message but did my best to be supportive and to use correct pronouns and remember to call her by her new/real name. To me, it was a no-brainer to do this. R is an Internet friend and I have never met her, nor do I suppose I will ever meet her. So it's less confusing and easier not to slip up. I think I've only slipped up by calling her her former male name once, and that wasn't to her but in a conversation with a different friend. I of course immediately corrected myself!

R eventually changed her name and gender on Facebook and made a VERY long Facebook post about why she had done so. To my embarrassment, she wrote a huge paragraph about how helpful I'd been and how grateful she was. I was touched by it because I felt I was just doing what any half-decent person would do really! :colondollar: I don't really speak to R anymore (not because of her gender identity changing, but for different reasons which I probably shouldn't go into on here) but as far as I'm aware, everyone has been overwhelmingly accepting of her, though her father refused to use the correct/new pronouns and name for a while (that has thankfully been resolved).

Actually now that I come to think of it, before R, my friend L came out to me as a trans-man (by which I mean, born female but identifying as male). Again, L is an Internet friend, which was far easier to deal with and remember about than it would have been had it have been an IRL friend. I think I could have dealt a bit better with the L situation, tbh. L told me about his true/new identity but then he became very distant and I don't know whether that was a natural move in the interactions, or whether it was the result of something I had said or done :frown: I did act a bit differently towards him in that I became instantly (albeit subconsciously) more wary of what I said to him, now that he was male rather than female. That was down to my own disastrous history of confiding things in men and my upbringing as to what is appropriate for me, as a woman, to say to a man who is not a lover; it was not a conscious or deliberate reaction. But maybe L perceived my behaviour as me rejecting him :s-smilie:

I still feel very ignorant about gender identity. Despite reading and loving Judith Butler's Gender Trouble (which was probably a turning point in my understanding on many issues, haha), I really don't understand gender fluidity. That's not to say I disapprove of it, but merely that it's not something I can currently get my head around. I think it's coz I'm a very black and white thinker in general life (only in academia do I fall into the grey areas) so for me, people identify as either male or female? :dontknow: I like to think though that, should one of my friends come up to me and say they are genderqueer or gender fluid, that I would be supportive and accepting of it :yes:
I'm trans and it sucks. I'm unable to come out to my parents because I'm scared they'll disown me, and I'm not out at work so I have to wear the woman's uniform and get called 'she' and a name that feels wrong and I can't do anything about it. The waiting lists for GICs are huge thesr days and it's going to be at least a year before I can even start hormones, though my year head at uni heavily implied he would want me to wait till I was done with uni (probably to save them any hassle).

So I'm in the awkward stage of being out to friends but not professionally, and I'm essentially living a double life and it's wearing on me. It's exhausting. I can't date because straight men treat me like a girl, which I'm not, and gay guys aren't interested because of what's in my pants, and I'm not interested in straight girls.

My close friends have mostly been great about it, and my uni's LGBT society has been really good though.
Original post by MyAnacondaDoes
It'll obviously take them time to adjust. 22 years they saw you as their daughter... just remember that.......

It's a perfectly normal reaction.

If my daughter/son told me at 20 y/o that they we're transitioning to the opposite sex, I would have a hard time.


You need to realise that it's hard for us as well as you.


I'm sorry but the trans person struggles much more and the role of the parent is to love unconditionally. You can be ignorant and thats fine. Their approach was wrong and it can be damaging. My parents have known I am gay for 6 years now and still do not accept it. Hard for them my behind.
(edited 8 years ago)
I knew a couple of people going through the process and nobody in my school bullied them at all, it was sort of just taken on the chin. I found it quite odd because I had been bullied pretty mercilessly for years there and I didn't quite get how the two stories were that different.

Eitherway, I think the struggle came from within rather than through external attitudes. I also think Britain has had a lot of social change shoved on it very heavily, very quickly, and it's simply trying to catch up. Ignorance isn't a big deal as long as the ignorant are willing to learn.

I personally don't understand the issues surround transgenderism and gender identity as much as I'd like but open to understanding it and generally place my own thoughts on it aside when talking about it with a trans person. If my child came out as trans I'd support them 100%.

A close friend of mine came out as trans (GtB) and was incredibly nervous and scared about my reaction and I just basically said something along the lines of, "cool, brother!" and he felt so relieved I'd just accepted it then and there and respected his pronouns and gender identity as a whole. It really got to me how he thought I'd be weird about it. It really did.

I think that the world needs to stop viewing these issues as the next trend and rather as something thats only just coming into the public eye but has always been there. Sex-changes are different in that respect but the actual gender dysphoria and transgenderism has always been present in the world as has homosexuality and bisexuality, etc. It should also realise that these issues are real to a great number of people - whatever your opinion is, if its harmful, let it alone.
I'm currently questioning my gender identity, whilst I already dress fairly androgynous, I've been binding (safely, I must add) and dressing more masculine and I feel as if it feels right but I'm still questioning atm.

I do know a couple of trans students (all FtM). It's difficult for them in a school environment really. For the trans student in sixth form it's not as hard since you can wear your own clothing as opposed to the younger students who may have to wear the gendered uniform. Although, the school is really supportive and does allow the students who identify as trans to switch over to their correct uniforms, and allows them to change their name on the register without any hassle (I know a few single-sex grammar schools in my area are very difficult to work with when it comes to name changing, and the uniform too) so my school isn't too bad as opposed to what it could be, but there's always room for improvement too. The toilets are another issue. The trans students who aren't in sixth form will often use the disabled toilets and that can be very disheartening for them (as it implies to other students that being trans is a disability etc). Sixth form toilets aren't a big as an issue in my school considering they're open (so if you walk in, to the left you have the males and to the right you have the females, all in plain view) but my friend asks me to come with him for safety.
Reply 29
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
I still feel very ignorant about gender identity. Despite reading and loving Judith Butler's Gender Trouble (which was probably a turning point in my understanding on many issues, haha), I really don't understand gender fluidity. That's not to say I disapprove of it, but merely that it's not something I can currently get my head around. I think it's coz I'm a very black and white thinker in general life (only in academia do I fall into the grey areas) so for me, people identify as either male or female? :dontknow: I like to think though that, should one of my friends come up to me and say they are genderqueer or gender fluid, that I would be supportive and accepting of it :yes:


If you are looking to understand it a bit better then reading some Kate Bornstein might help, at the very least she's much easier reading that Butler :lol:

Or Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy (free online) has a few good articles outlining feminist theories of gender
Original post by BKS
If you are looking to understand it a bit better then reading some Kate Bornstein might help, at the very least she's much easier reading that Butler :lol:

Or Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy (free online) has a few good articles outlining feminist theories of gender


Haha, Butler was intense :eek: :lol: :eek:

Thanks for the recommendations - useful for my PhD research! :h:
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
Haha, Butler was intense :eek: :lol: :eek:

Thanks for the recommendations - useful for my PhD research! :h:


My wife is pretty into academic gender stuffs. If you need anything about a thing, just ask and I'll get a recommendation out of her. Still trying to get her to finish her lovely queer PhD!

Bornstein has a thing in Manchester this week that we desperately wanted to go to :frown:

Original post by Odd socks
I'm trans and it sucks. I'm unable to come out to my parents because I'm scared they'll disown me, and I'm not out at work so I have to wear the woman's uniform and get called 'she' and a name that feels wrong and I can't do anything about it. The waiting lists for GICs are huge thesr days and it's going to be at least a year before I can even start hormones, though my year head at uni heavily implied he would want me to wait till I was done with uni (probably to save them any hassle).

So I'm in the awkward stage of being out to friends but not professionally, and I'm essentially living a double life and it's wearing on me. It's exhausting. I can't date because straight men treat me like a girl, which I'm not, and gay guys aren't interested because of what's in my pants, and I'm not interested in straight girls.

My close friends have mostly been great about it, and my uni's LGBT society has been really good though.


Many loves and hugs and all of the awesome stuff. I can't imagine it being easy at all. I've had three pupils come out as trans in the last three weeks and they have the exact same frustrations. Just know that you are awesome and lovely and living authentically for yourself. Everything else will fall into place because you are so far beyond wonderful.
Original post by Odd socks
I'm trans and it sucks. I'm unable to come out to my parents because I'm scared they'll disown me, and I'm not out at work so I have to wear the woman's uniform and get called 'she' and a name that feels wrong and I can't do anything about it. The waiting lists for GICs are huge thesr days and it's going to be at least a year before I can even start hormones, though my year head at uni heavily implied he would want me to wait till I was done with uni (probably to save them any hassle).

So I'm in the awkward stage of being out to friends but not professionally, and I'm essentially living a double life and it's wearing on me. It's exhausting. I can't date because straight men treat me like a girl, which I'm not, and gay guys aren't interested because of what's in my pants, and I'm not interested in straight girls.

My close friends have mostly been great about it, and my uni's LGBT society has been really good though.


:lovehug:

#TeamSocky4eva

Original post by ParadoxSocks
My wife is pretty into academic gender stuffs. If you need anything about a thing, just ask and I'll get a recommendation out of her. Still trying to get her to finish her lovely queer PhD!

Bornstein has a thing in Manchester this week that we desperately wanted to go to :frown:


Ah thanks so much! Much appreciated, might have to take you up on that at some point :h:
I am a trans man :smile:

Coming out was hard and I wasn't accepted by a lot of my family but they're adjusting to it slowly. I questioned my gender when I was about 15 or 16 and came to terms with it when I was 17. This was the beginning of 2014, so I've known for 2 years. I came out in June 2014. I wear masculine clothes and I wear a binder (PSA do NOT wear ace-bandages because you will harm yourself- don't worry I never did :fyi:) although I do want my hair cut short.

I'm also pansexual as well as transgender and I am in a happy same-gender relationship with a cisgender bisexual guy who makes me very happy :lovie: We've only been dating since like yesterday but yeah :lol: It's good ^^ He's also very supportive of me and loves me for the guy I am :fleurdelis: We're happy :smile:

Transitioning is worth it and I'm loud and proud about it :smile:
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Anonymous
I'm not trans, nor are any of my family members (to my knowledge), but I do know of a transperson.

I used to have a friend back in school, but we have lost contact over the years. His parents divorced because his dad wanted to become a woman. He left, selfishly it must be said, and left the mum to deal with everything.

What I really don't get with this whole trans-stuff is, for example, that middle-aged man who said he has always felt like a "6 year old girl". How does that even work?

People are calling him "loopy", but if he feels like a 6 year old, shouldn't we respect it as much as we respect a 70 year old father turn into a woman??!!

Sexual liberty/freedom is fantastic, but where do we draw the line? Is there even a line??


"6 year old girl" example: perhaps transgender, but transgender isn't used in relation to age, so that's something different altogether.

Why would you think of one possible example in the media as typical for transgender people? :baffled:
Reply 35
Original post by Odd socks
The waiting lists for GICs are huge thesr days and it's going to be at least a year before I can even start hormones, though my year head at uni heavily implied he would want me to wait till I was done with uni (probably to save them any hassle).

So I'm in the awkward stage of being out to friends but not professionally, and I'm essentially living a double life and it's wearing on me. It's exhausting. I can't date because straight men treat me like a girl, which I'm not, and gay guys aren't interested because of what's in my pants, and I'm not interested in straight girls..


I know it doesn't really help but FWIW:

GIC waiting lists have been epic for as long as I've been aware of their existence which is about 10 years. However NHS England has now took over commissioning them and there's a real commitment to things improving. Waiting lists probably won't improve for you, the main issue is a lack of doctors but by the time you get there they will probably have been re-commissioned into a much more progressive approach.

I've been with gay guys who have no problem with what's in my boxers. It probably is different in that I've been on T 6 years but it's not a lost cause

Original post by ParadoxSocks
Bornstein has a thing in Manchester this week that we desperately wanted to go to :frown:


I'm going and hugely exciting.Though none of my friends who know she is so don't at all get my excitement :lol:
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by XcitingStuart
"6 year old girl" example: perhaps transgender, but transgender isn't used in relation to age, so that's something different altogether.

Why would you think of one possible example in the media as typical for transgender people? :baffled:


This was something to do with the term "transage". Now fair enough, as gender is a social construct, it can be easy to understand being transgender, however, transage has nothing to do with social constructs therefore you cant really change as your age is there to keep you safe from things that youmaybe dont want to see. When that news story first came out, people were taking the mick out of it which meant that the trans* community were being looked down at because of one person which was quite sad. But what do you think because age obviously isnt a social construct.
Original post by XcitingStuart
"6 year old girl" example: perhaps transgender, but transgender isn't used in relation to age, so that's something different altogether.

Why would you think of one possible example in the media as typical for transgender people? :baffled:


This was something to do with the term "transage". Now fair enough, as gender is a social construct, it can be easy to understand being transgender, however, transage has nothing to do with social constructs therefore you cant really change as your age is there to keep you safe from things that youmaybe dont want to see. When that news story first came out, people were taking the mick out of it which meant that the trans* community were being looked down at because of one person which was quite sad. But what do you think because age obviously isnt a social construct.
@BBC Radio 1

I won't lie, I was rather disappointed with the programme. It was directionless and lacked focus, and the rather uninformed presenter spent ages rabbiting on at the expense of the trans people who were actually on the show, points that were raised here (only one post was briefly mentioned) and texts sent in by listeners of the show. Apart from the question from the listener who wanted to broach living as a woman with their young daughters, most of the content was a few relatively basic questions, which could've been answered by a quick Google. There was no "meaty" discussion of what life is like as a trans person. Even "I Am Leo", which was aimed at children, imparted more insight!

It's a shame that the fact that trans people can live fulfilling and normal lives was not reflected on the programme. Many have professional jobs (e.g. my FTM partner is a lawyer), relationships, kids, and just generally they can have happy lives that do not revolve around being trans, getting treatment or 'passing'.

Original post by Odd socks
x


Don't know if you listened to the programme but you got a mention - though you were the only person who was! :hugs:
Original post by Anonymous
@BBC Radio 1

I won't lie, I was rather disappointed with the programme. It was directionless and lacked focus, and the rather uninformed presenter spent ages rabbiting on at the expense of the trans people who were actually on the show, points that were raised here (only one post was briefly mentioned) and texts sent in by listeners of the show. Apart from the question from the listener who wanted to broach living as a woman with their young daughters, most of the content was a few relatively basic questions, which could've been answered by a quick Google. There was no "meaty" discussion of what life is like as a trans person. Even "I Am Leo", which was aimed at children, imparted more insight!

It's a shame that the fact that trans people can live fulfilling and normal lives was not reflected on the programme. Many have professional jobs (e.g. my FTM partner is a lawyer), relationships, kids, and just generally they can have happy lives that do not revolve around being trans, getting treatment or 'passing'.



Don't know if you listened to the programme but you got a mention - though you were the only person who was! :hugs:


omg I forgot to listen to it, I'll try and find it on iplayer

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