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People who supported Brexit - do you feel conned?

Five days after the referendum, and the Brexit case is already unravelling. Boris, the man most likely to be key to building our new relationship seems keen to replace the EU with the EU.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36641390 - curtesy of *Cherry82

The blunders of Boris Johnson really do sum up the whole thing. In line with what many brainwashed Brexit supporters were saying, Johnson went on about an agreement being struck quite quickly. We'd have informal chats - the EU would be begging for us to work with them. Then Boris told us that the German business group, the BDI, were all for the UK getting a special deal. He then reassured us that the Pound was stabilising.

All those things were untrue, and by Monday lunchtime, the wall of lies was falling to pieces:

β€’

Β£350m (apparently) spent on the EU would be directed to the NHS... nope, that was a mistake.

β€’

Britain will be free from the EU and regain 'sovereignty'... nope, that's not the case.

β€’

Leaving the EU will lead to immigration falling... oops, another mistake!



So, if you supported Brexit, how do you feel? Things like cost, immigration and sovereignty were central to the campaign - and it seems that your beloved leaders are ready to turn their backs on these areas.
(edited 7 years ago)

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Original post by InnerTemple
Five days after the referendum, and the Brexit case is already unravelling. Boris, the man most likely to be key to building our new relationship seems keen to replace the EU with the EU.

The blunders of Boris Johnson really do sum up the whole thing. In line with what many brainwashed Brexit supporters were saying, Johnson went on about an agreement being struck quite quickly. We'd have informal chats - the EU would be begging for us to work with them. Then Boris told us that the German business group, the BDI, were all for the UK getting a special deal. He then reassured us that the Pound was stabilising.

All those things were untrue, and by Monday lunchtime, the wall of lies was falling to pieces:

β€’

Β£350m (apparently) spent on the EU would be directed to the NHS... nope, that was a mistake.

β€’

Britain will be free from the EU and regain 'sovereignty'... nope, that's not the case.

β€’

Leaving the EU will lead to immigration falling... oops, another mistake!


So, if you supported Brexit, how do you feel? Things like cost, immigration and sovereignty were central to the campaign - and it seems that your beloved leaders are ready to turn their backs on these areas.



1. Nobody claimed that
2. Remains to be seen
3. I don't care about immigration
Reply 2
No, this is exactly what we were told - short term economic downturn in exchange for sovereignty.

Animating contest of freedom > tranquility of servitude
No, because I voted for reasons not plastered on the side of a bus.
Original post by InnerTemple
Five days after the referendum, and the Brexit case is already unravelling. Boris, the man most likely to be key to building our new relationship seems keen to replace the EU with the EU.

The blunders of Boris Johnson really do sum up the whole thing. In line with what many brainwashed Brexit supporters were saying, Johnson went on about an agreement being struck quite quickly. We'd have informal chats - the EU would be begging for us to work with them. Then Boris told us that the German business group, the BDI, were all for the UK getting a special deal. He then reassured us that the Pound was stabilising.

All those things were untrue, and by Monday lunchtime, the wall of lies was falling to pieces:

β€’

Β£350m (apparently) spent on the EU would be directed to the NHS... nope, that was a mistake.

β€’

Britain will be free from the EU and regain 'sovereignty'... nope, that's not the case.

β€’

Leaving the EU will lead to immigration falling... oops, another mistake!


So, if you supported Brexit, how do you feel? Things like cost, immigration and sovereignty were central to the campaign - and it seems that your beloved leaders are ready to turn their backs on these areas.

1. Could be
2. It will
3. Could do, but the exit itself will do nothing.
Nobody expected things to change only 5 days after the referendum - it was obvious that if we voted to leave it would result in short term financial instability and market chaos, it was fully expected. Most people who voted Leave however (the intelligent ones anyway) voted leave with the hope that in the future it will result in a better Britain, short term pain for long term gain.

I voted Remain in the end but I think Britain is fully capable of thriving outside of the EU it all depends on which way the future government take us forward, as to whever we will be better off in the long term outside of the EU.
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 6
I feel conned that they didn't warn us about the influx of threads like this
Reply 7
Original post by InnerTemple

β€’

Β£350m (apparently) spent on the EU would be directed to the NHS... nope, that was a mistake.

β€’

Britain will be free from the EU and regain 'sovereignty'... nope, that's not the case.

β€’

Leaving the EU will lead to immigration falling... oops, another mistake!

So, if you supported Brexit, how do you feel? Things like cost, immigration and sovereignty were central to the campaign - and it seems that your beloved leaders are ready to turn their backs on these areas.


- It might be, we don't know yet.
- It certainly will be, no argument to be had on that.
- Immigration may not fall, but our ability to control it may well increase.

We have no precedent on which to base what happens now.

Some politicians were quite honest [<snork> :toofunny: ] in Leave by saying 'we don't know what will happen' and we still don't and won't. Only once things are negotiated will a more clear picture emerge.

FWIW there is a blurred line between 'lies' and 'propaganda'. Regardless of the outcome, if you voted "remain" you are in the minority of electorate opinion, which may be a new experience.
Original post by EuanF
x


[QUOTE="TercioOfParma;66155107"]x/QUOTE]

You've all made fairly similar points - so I'll deal with them together.

1) It's not going to be. Leave campaigner IDS has said so. Part of this is because we never sent Β£350m on the EU. The other reason is that Leave never intended on spending any money saved on things like the NHS.

Angryredhead - you said nobody made this claim. Well these are the words of Gisela Stuart "Every week we send Β£350m to Brussels. I'd rather that we control how to spend that money, and if I had that control I would spend it on the NHS."

2) Remains to be seen? Seems pretty certain to me. Boris Johnson has said that the UK will remain in the Single Market.

3) This is linked to point 2 - if we remain in the single market, then we'll almost certainly have free movement. In fact, Johnson has suggested that he'd be fine with this. And Vote Leave's Daniel Hannan has said he isn't too bothered about the matter either.

Original post by TercioOfParma
No, because I voted for reasons not plastered on the side of a bus.


What were your reasons?
Reply 9
Original post by Shabalala

I voted Remain in the end but I think Britain is fully capable of thriving outside of the EU it all depends on which way the future government take us forward, as to whever we will be better off in the long term outside of the EU.


Excellent. I have been labouring this point since the vote to anyone making statements like the OP.
[QUOTE="InnerTemple;66155267"]
Original post by TercioOfParma
x/QUOTE]

You've all made fairly similar points - so I'll deal with them together.

1) It's not going to be. Leave campaigner IDS has said so. Part of this is because we never sent Β£350m on the EU. The other reason is that Leave never intended on spending any money saved on things like the NHS.

Angryredhead - you said nobody made this claim. Well these are the words of Gisela Stuart "Every week we send Β£350m to Brussels. I'd rather that we control how to spend that money, and if I had that control I would spend it on the NHS."

2) Remains to be seen? Seems pretty certain to me. Boris Johnson has said that the UK will remain in the Single Market.

3) This is linked to point 2 - if we remain in the single market, then we'll almost certainly have free movement. In fact, Johnson has suggested that he'd be fine with this. And Vote Leave's Daniel Hannan has said he isn't too bothered about the matter either.



What were your reasons?


I want our government to be able to propose, vote on and make our own laws without the EU being able to say "no" and vote in legislation to the contrary.
Reply 11
[QUOTE="InnerTemple;66155267"]
Original post by TercioOfParma
x/QUOTE]

You've all made fairly similar points - so I'll deal with them together.

1) It's not going to be. Leave campaigner IDS has said so. Part of this is because we never sent Β£350m on the EU. The other reason is that Leave never intended on spending any money saved on things like the NHS.

Angryredhead - you said nobody made this claim. Well these are the words of Gisela Stuart "Every week we send Β£350m to Brussels. I'd rather that we control how to spend that money, and if I had that control I would spend it on the NHS."

2) Remains to be seen? Seems pretty certain to me. Boris Johnson has said that the UK will remain in the Single Market.

3) This is linked to point 2 - if we remain in the single market, then we'll almost certainly have free movement. In fact, Johnson has suggested that he'd be fine with this. And Vote Leave's Daniel Hannan has said he isn't too bothered about the matter either.



What were your reasons?


Remaining in the single market =/= member of single market - Mexico for example has access but is not a member.
Original post by Shabalala
Nobody expected things to change only 5 days after the referendum you patronizing moron, get off your high horse, it was obvious to everyone with a brain that if we voted to leave it would result in short term financial instability and market chaos, it was fully expected. Most people who voted Leave however (the intelligent ones anyway) voted leave with the hope that in the future it will result in a better Britain, short term pain for long term gain.

I voted Remain in the end but I think Britain is fully capable of thriving outside of the EU it all depends on which way the future government take us forward, as to whever we will be better off in the long term outside of the EU.


Hello Angry person. I'm sorry to see that you're grumpy today.

Just a pointer - this thread isn't about the economic fall out. It's about the key themes and promises of the leave campaign which have been very quickly abandoned. So what you've said above is really quite irrelevant.

Regardless, here's a question: how long would you say the pound could keep falling before it stops being a 'temporary blip'?
[QUOTE="InnerTemple;66155267"]
Original post by TercioOfParma
x/QUOTE]

You've all made fairly similar points - so I'll deal with them together.

1) It's not going to be. Leave campaigner IDS has said so. Part of this is because we never sent Β£350m on the EU. The other reason is that Leave never intended on spending any money saved on things like the NHS.

Angryredhead - you said nobody made this claim. Well these are the words of Gisela Stuart "Every week we send Β£350m to Brussels. I'd rather that we control how to spend that money, and if I had that control I would spend it on the NHS."

2) Remains to be seen? Seems pretty certain to me. Boris Johnson has said that the UK will remain in the Single Market.

3) This is linked to point 2 - if we remain in the single market, then we'll almost certainly have free movement. In fact, Johnson has suggested that he'd be fine with this. And Vote Leave's Daniel Hannan has said he isn't too bothered about the matter either.



What were your reasons?


1) It was quite clearly advisory, anybody who believed it was certain was thick
2) Being in the single market only restricts businesses who trade iirc
3)True, although we could potentially talk our way out of this by using Germany as leverage.
[QUOTE="InnerTemple;66155267"]
Original post by TercioOfParma
x/QUOTE]

You've all made fairly similar points - so I'll deal with them together.

1) It's not going to be. Leave campaigner IDS has said so. Part of this is because we never sent Β£350m on the EU. The other reason is that Leave never intended on spending any money saved on things like the NHS.

Angryredhead - you said nobody made this claim. Well these are the words of Gisela Stuart "Every week we send Β£350m to Brussels. I'd rather that we control how to spend that money, and if I had that control I would spend it on the NHS."

2) Remains to be seen? Seems pretty certain to me. Boris Johnson has said that the UK will remain in the Single Market.

3) This is linked to point 2 - if we remain in the single market, then we'll almost certainly have free movement. In fact, Johnson has suggested that he'd be fine with this. And Vote Leave's Daniel Hannan has said he isn't too bothered about the matter either.



What were your reasons?


He said that ''if'' he had control, not that it will 100% certain be spent on the NHS. Anybody who looked at the red leave campaign buses and voted on that premise alone is a complete fool because even the buses don't promise the 350 million will go to the NHS.

Considering we haven't even started invoking Article 50 yet nor even started formal negotiations jumping the gun until were certain whats going to happen is a little silly

As I said, immigration doesn't bother me personally and it's certainly not the reason why I voted Leave
Never
I voted Leave, and I didn't do it on the basis of any of the spurious claims coming out of the campaign, Β£350m for the NHS, Turkey joining EU etc.

However I am concerned at the way things are progressing.

My main disappointment is the complete lack of leadership and plan amongst the leaders of the Leave movement. The nagging feeling I have is that Leave didn't expect to win and hadn't prepared for this moment. They probably saw it as the next step in a long struggle to getting out of the EU.

They have also tied themselves in knots by harnessing the anti-immigration movement in order to get the votes they needed to get over the line, and are now realising that those voters expect being able to control immigration as a red line in negotiations, but they know the EU won't budge an inch on free movement and they have a list of the business community / donors who they have to satisfy with single market access, passport for services which will be difficult to achieve anyway but almost certainly will involve free movement.
Original post by TercioOfParma
Original post by InnerTemple


I want our government to be able to propose, vote on and make our own laws without the EU being able to say "no" and vote in legislation to the contrary.


This was also my reasoning too.

Although the relationship with the EU is less one of them saying "no" to us, and more them sending things through and requiring us to implement them, that we cannot say no to (which obviously restricts our ability to do contradictory things).
It was definitely claimed money would be diverted from the EU to the NHS. If you've not seen that quoted you must have been living under a rock.

I agree with 2.

Just because you don't care about immigration, doesn't mean that is wasn't a significant part of the campaign, and now despite that it appears there is little desire to reduce immigration.

What really shocks me is this talk of waiting 1-2 years to start our 2 year leaving process....I thought we wanted out ASAP?
Original post by Elivercury
It was definitely claimed money would be diverted from the EU to the NHS. If you've not seen that quoted you must have been living under a rock.

I agree with 2.

Just because you don't care about immigration, doesn't mean that is wasn't a significant part of the campaign, and now despite that it appears there is little desire to reduce immigration.

What really shocks me is this talk of waiting 1-2 years to start our 2 year leaving process....I thought we wanted out ASAP?


See post 16

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