Uni is a scam
I honestly dont understand why we are still pushed by schools and society in general to go to uni. Unless you're doing subjects such as medicine, dentistry etc which require those qualifications, why are more people not choosing to do apprenticeships or even degree apprenticeships which are IMO a much better option that doesnt involve huge amounts of debt.
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
(edited 5 years ago)
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Original post by Samiik
I honestly dont understand why we are still pushed by schools and society in general to go to uni. Unless you're doing subjects such as medicine, dentistry etc which require those qualifications, why are more people not choosing to do apprenticeships or even degree apprenticeships which are IMO a much better option that doesnt involve huge amounts of debt.
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
I think it depends on the individual - for some people, choosing non-STEM degrees has helped with their career ambitions and it was the best route for them.
I do agree that schools do tend to push university over apprenticeships. I read about some students who felt pressured to go to university, applied and started the course, and then regret the whole thing. For some, taking a gap year to think about what you do want to do with your life can be the best course of action, rather than rushing into something that you are not 100% sure you want to do. If students are given more information about apprenticeships and degree apprenticeships, and other routes to a career, I feel like they could make a more informed decision about what they should do after school/college.
They never market themselves as vocational institutions. It's not a scam if they never attempted to deceive anyone
(edited 5 years ago)
Moved to educational debate 
I don't agree with schools and colleges pushing people into university. There was a substantial amount of pressure placed on me when I wasn't ready by school, sixth form and college which I felt uncomfortable with. I was stubborn and didn't jump into something I knew I wasn't ready for.
As I live in Wales and I am studying with the OU, my degree will cost about the same amount as my car cost me and I get £1k grant a year, so the financial side of it isn't a big issue for me (it's technically free). If it would cost me £20k, then I would definitely reconsider doing it.
My next assignment actually mentions employability skills and how the module has helped us develop those skills. Aside from that, it develops you personally. You get a sense of achievement, like you're working towards something whilst learning something new regularly. That's a rewarding experience, although it doesn't always feel that way.
You develop writing skills, confidence in your ability, a general understanding of questions and critical thinking skills that are helpful in all aspects of life. I'm not saying this because I'm brainwashed by university, whenever they mention skills I'm developing, I usually roll my eyes and don't focus much on it but when I think more about it, I can usually think of the benefits of studying.
I would've done an apprenticeship but there were barely any available by me, the wage was incredibly low and if they did exist, they focused on brick-laying or male dominated areas that I wasn't interested in.
University works for some people like me, who can stay home, work and study at the same time and doesn't for others (usually those who haven't done their research and go to university to follow their friends because they don't know what they're doing).
As I live in Wales and I am studying with the OU, my degree will cost about the same amount as my car cost me and I get £1k grant a year, so the financial side of it isn't a big issue for me (it's technically free). If it would cost me £20k, then I would definitely reconsider doing it.
My next assignment actually mentions employability skills and how the module has helped us develop those skills. Aside from that, it develops you personally. You get a sense of achievement, like you're working towards something whilst learning something new regularly. That's a rewarding experience, although it doesn't always feel that way.
You develop writing skills, confidence in your ability, a general understanding of questions and critical thinking skills that are helpful in all aspects of life. I'm not saying this because I'm brainwashed by university, whenever they mention skills I'm developing, I usually roll my eyes and don't focus much on it but when I think more about it, I can usually think of the benefits of studying.I would've done an apprenticeship but there were barely any available by me, the wage was incredibly low and if they did exist, they focused on brick-laying or male dominated areas that I wasn't interested in.
University works for some people like me, who can stay home, work and study at the same time and doesn't for others (usually those who haven't done their research and go to university to follow their friends because they don't know what they're doing).
Original post by Samiik
I honestly dont understand why we are still pushed by schools and society in general to go to uni. Unless you're doing subjects such as medicine, dentistry etc which require those qualifications, why are more people not choosing to do apprenticeships or even degree apprenticeships which are IMO a much better option that doesnt involve huge amounts of debt.
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
Original post by Samiik
I honestly dont understand why we are still pushed by schools and society in general to go to uni. Unless you're doing subjects such as medicine, dentistry etc which require those qualifications, why are more people not choosing to do apprenticeships or even degree apprenticeships which are IMO a much better option that doesnt involve huge amounts of debt.
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
Meeting more people and having a better social life.
Also, apprenticeships still aren’t as good as a degree for top jobs, there’s no apprenticeship for getting into M&A at Goldman Sachs
Original post by Samiik
I honestly dont understand why we are still pushed by schools and society in general to go to uni. Unless you're doing subjects such as medicine, dentistry etc which require those qualifications, why are more people not choosing to do apprenticeships or even degree apprenticeships which are IMO a much better option that doesnt involve huge amounts of debt.
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
Also, you sound like someone who didn’t get into any/a good uni or is currently failing uni.
I would not say scam, but the OP is right to say you should consider alternatives. Some degrees do not seem to add much value in the job market.
Too many people get directed to university, no question. There are too many universities and far too many worthless courses. These mainly exist to reward the top executives with bloated salaries and expenses. Successive governments have failed to create a vocational system and to replace the dramatic loss of apprenticeships that took place during the 80s and 90s when Tory governments stopped subsidising them, casting hundreds of thousands of young people who would previously have learned hardcore technical skills to give them a lifetime of good earnings into oblivion. The rapid expansion of the new universities was a figleaf to cover that up and part of the destruction of proper jobs in the UK that has continued since, for a segment of the population.
What you will get is either you sound like you don't like uni, or you sound like your failing,or your wrong, or well I got a job afterwards and blah blah blah.
It depends on everything but my situation finished foundation year, finished 1st year, they cancelled our placement without any notification. They messed up our modules,I was on the wrong ones, so fell behind. The hub was useless, our tutorials got cancelled Alot, they got PhD students to cover but they were useless, no choice but to leave. I had to drop out, couldn't get funding to repeat. University no help no use, no intention of, others suffered like me. The university didn't care.
Comments was your fault,you didn't try hard enough, you should have contacted offices more, ....yeh stfu.
My friends who passed....very few only 3 got jobs in the industry. Rest work stores, warehouses,call centers some security. University kinda means nothing now sadly. Your guaranteed nothing. You need experience. They seem to want younger ones. Even trainee or apprentaship positions are a joke. Most of them require degrees.
School leavers get an apprenticeship, university best chance law,medical,engineering...
It depends on everything but my situation finished foundation year, finished 1st year, they cancelled our placement without any notification. They messed up our modules,I was on the wrong ones, so fell behind. The hub was useless, our tutorials got cancelled Alot, they got PhD students to cover but they were useless, no choice but to leave. I had to drop out, couldn't get funding to repeat. University no help no use, no intention of, others suffered like me. The university didn't care.
Comments was your fault,you didn't try hard enough, you should have contacted offices more, ....yeh stfu.
My friends who passed....very few only 3 got jobs in the industry. Rest work stores, warehouses,call centers some security. University kinda means nothing now sadly. Your guaranteed nothing. You need experience. They seem to want younger ones. Even trainee or apprentaship positions are a joke. Most of them require degrees.
School leavers get an apprenticeship, university best chance law,medical,engineering...
I would agree it is a scam because the overwhelming narrative for me (Mechanical Engineering) was that the skills you build during the degree+work experience+extracurriculars would be in demand when you graduate. Totally opposite scenario for grads when ratio of entry level jobs is around 2:1. Not just the UK having this problem it's the same situation in most countries presenting no barriers to education.
It's made out that there is a shortage in the media, in schools etc so most take this to mean that companies are struggling to recruit talent in that field (think teaching posts going unfilled, absolutely no takers) when in fact they are skimming the cream off the top and the remainder are left. Universities obviously don't want their prospective students knowing this so it's hidden in stats comparing earning potential of graduates to non-graduates as a whole, or you are fed poster-grad feedback, dismissed as having not tried hard enough to deserve a job.
It's made out that there is a shortage in the media, in schools etc so most take this to mean that companies are struggling to recruit talent in that field (think teaching posts going unfilled, absolutely no takers) when in fact they are skimming the cream off the top and the remainder are left. Universities obviously don't want their prospective students knowing this so it's hidden in stats comparing earning potential of graduates to non-graduates as a whole, or you are fed poster-grad feedback, dismissed as having not tried hard enough to deserve a job.
Firstly I would not say its a debt, you are not forced to pay anything back unless you earn a certain amount. Even when you start repaying its not much that you pay back. A debt is a mortgage or a car loan, those things you have to pay back regardless of your income.
Secondly I agree that a degree does not mean much in terms of employment, a degree does however open up the doors to graduate schemes for example. Dont get me wrong though, graduate schemes are very very tough to get into and if you consider the amount of grad schemes to the amount of students, 2-5% of students actually get one. However if you have the drive and determination then its possible, I myself have got onto a decent graduate scheme and ill tell you it was very tough and it has humbled me. I have been working since I was about 16 so did have quite a bit of work experience.
Overall to me it seems like people go to uni and think they will get a good job at the end of it. In reality you need alot more than your degree to bag a graduate scheme if thats what you want. Uni also can be a very good time, iv personally had such a great time and would recommend it to anyone. Although my health had declined due to the drinking and junk food
. That being said Uni is really what you make of it, it can be great or it can be not so good. Iv met my girlfriend, made great friends and memories and bagged a good graduate scheme.
Sorry for the essay but if you are willing to work hard and realise that it can be very tough to get a graduate scheme for example then go for it 100%.
Secondly I agree that a degree does not mean much in terms of employment, a degree does however open up the doors to graduate schemes for example. Dont get me wrong though, graduate schemes are very very tough to get into and if you consider the amount of grad schemes to the amount of students, 2-5% of students actually get one. However if you have the drive and determination then its possible, I myself have got onto a decent graduate scheme and ill tell you it was very tough and it has humbled me. I have been working since I was about 16 so did have quite a bit of work experience.
Overall to me it seems like people go to uni and think they will get a good job at the end of it. In reality you need alot more than your degree to bag a graduate scheme if thats what you want. Uni also can be a very good time, iv personally had such a great time and would recommend it to anyone. Although my health had declined due to the drinking and junk food
. That being said Uni is really what you make of it, it can be great or it can be not so good. Iv met my girlfriend, made great friends and memories and bagged a good graduate scheme. Sorry for the essay but if you are willing to work hard and realise that it can be very tough to get a graduate scheme for example then go for it 100%.
Original post by Samiik
I honestly dont understand why we are still pushed by schools and society in general to go to uni. Unless you're doing subjects such as medicine, dentistry etc which require those qualifications, why are more people not choosing to do apprenticeships or even degree apprenticeships which are IMO a much better option that doesnt involve huge amounts of debt.
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
Many of these courses are similar to school in the sense that they dont teach you skills that are actually needed in the work place
Quite an easy solution, then dont go.
Apprenticeships are highly variable in quality and some of them are just exploitation to get the government subsidy.
Degree apprenticeships are rare and can be competitive. They are a good choice, but you have to do the degree the employer wants.
A degree of any sort teaches you transferable skills to a much higher level than school. Employers do require, hence many graduate jobs are open to students of any degree subject. Grades matter more.
Various professions also have degree level entry.
The debt you talk about is unlikely to be repaid in full anyway by the vast majority of candidates. Its more like quasi debt.
Your actually wrong on this 1, majority of good apprentaships now require qualifications of top marks in that area..or even a degree which I have found out Alot in the last month which is completely the wrong idea of an apprenticeship. Apprenticeships your supposed to work and learn, and depending on the job a few days of college/uni. It was originally for 16-21 yr olds, now they say they have got rid of ages so for all ages it's bs. It is a con sadly.
Original post by 999tigger
Quite an easy solution, then dont go.
Apprenticeships are highly variable in quality and some of them are just exploitation to get the government subsidy.
Degree apprenticeships are rare and can be competitive. They are a good choice, but you have to do the degree the employer wants.
A degree of any sort teaches you transferable skills to a much higher level than school. Employers do require, hence many graduate jobs are open to students of any degree subject. Grades matter more.
Various professions also have degree level entry.
The debt you talk about is unlikely to be repaid in full anyway by the vast majority of candidates. Its more like quasi debt.
Apprenticeships are highly variable in quality and some of them are just exploitation to get the government subsidy.
Degree apprenticeships are rare and can be competitive. They are a good choice, but you have to do the degree the employer wants.
A degree of any sort teaches you transferable skills to a much higher level than school. Employers do require, hence many graduate jobs are open to students of any degree subject. Grades matter more.
Various professions also have degree level entry.
The debt you talk about is unlikely to be repaid in full anyway by the vast majority of candidates. Its more like quasi debt.
Original post by TPAULT
Your actually wrong on this 1, majority of good apprentaships now require qualifications of top marks in that area..or even a degree which I have found out Alot in the last month which is completely the wrong idea of an apprenticeship. Apprenticeships your supposed to work and learn, and depending on the job a few days of college/uni. It was originally for 16-21 yr olds, now they say they have got rid of ages so for all ages it's bs. It is a con sadly.
No type of apprenticeships require a degree, what makes you say that?- my own experience of trying to change careers is that most degree apprenticeship providers will reject a degree holder in preference of a school leaver or that sort of age but would also consider older more experienced people for example a mechanic wanting to become an engineer (I was applying to other branches of engineering and IT positions anyway).
I'm one of the old fashioned types that sees higher ed as a good in itself, so I don't much care about employment prospects. If I have my teaching head on then I'm gonna repeat the party line of transferrable skills etc, which is truer for some than for others. The fact is some people go to university and don't really develop skills at all, at least not to any extent that signifies their higher ed training. And then some do. I don't know about places pushing university onto kids these days, you lot will have more experience of that than me (though we were certainly pushed towards it in college -- many moons ago) but if there are other options then it can never hurt to let people know that they are there.
Ultimately, I don't see higher ed as a sausage factory for jobs. Lots of people do, and the marketisation of HEd has contributed to that. But if you don't care about that, these issues don't really arise.
Ultimately, I don't see higher ed as a sausage factory for jobs. Lots of people do, and the marketisation of HEd has contributed to that. But if you don't care about that, these issues don't really arise.
Original post by TPAULT
Your actually wrong on this 1, majority of good apprentaships now require qualifications of top marks in that area..or even a degree which I have found out Alot in the last month which is completely the wrong idea of an apprenticeship. Apprenticeships your supposed to work and learn, and depending on the job a few days of college/uni. It was originally for 16-21 yr olds, now they say they have got rid of ages so for all ages it's bs. It is a con sadly.
Think you will find the vast majority of members on these forums are concerned with apprenticeships as a part of leaving school or an immediate alternative to uni. At that level there is a big range with the best ones being the most competitive and plenty of poor quality ones.
(edited 5 years ago)
being out of uni x amount of time and many friends aswell we have looked, go ask for yourself. I wouldnt say read the sites as the sites are bs, you actually have to ask
Original post by 999tigger
Think you will find the vast mahority of members on these forums are concerned with apprenticeships as a part of leaving school or an immediate alternative to uni. At that level there is a big range with the best ones being the most competitive and plenty of poor quality ones.
Original post by TPAULT
being out of uni x amount of time and many friends aswell we have looked, go ask for yourself. I wouldnt say read the sites as the sites are bs, you actually have to ask
Not seeing what your point is. You are of the view its a scam?
Maybe you were just unlucky that it didnt work out for you.
Good uni and good grades will get you access to better jobs.
Poor uni and average grades then you have a tough task.
Original post by 999tigger
Good uni and good grades will get you access to better jobs.
Poor uni and average grades then you have a tough task.
Good uni and good grades will get you access to better jobs.
Poor uni and average grades then you have a tough task.
This "don't worry about prospects you'll be fine if you try" attitude pretty much sums up the problem with how people are being pushed/drawn into uni without knowing what they're really signing up for. Do you not think prospective students, in say engineering (Most of whom are in fact looking for good employment prospects as opposed to an "experience") deserve to know they need above average employability as measured by the employer not their attainment or where they got into or how hard they tried. Below average in that respect and you might be unhappy with what you end up with. Can't really just dismiss half of the current grads who fall into that category.
If you tell prospective students that statistically they are flipping a coin with their future they might think twice about what they have to do to be above average. Whereas now if you assume that good grades +good uni+good extracurriculars+good work experience is enough to make you employable they're in for a shock. Could at least be honest and tell them there are a good chunk of people that will never be engineers despite how hard they try simply because of the numbers of positions vs number of grads.
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