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An American seeking advice...
Hi all. I posted some questions about applying to Cambridge on another US-centric site and was directed here. I've taken a look around and I'm hoping you guys'll be able to help me out as much as you have others...!
I've been toying, lately, with the idea of applying to Cambridge as an English major. What I'm a little worried about are my qualifications. I recently took the SAT and got a 1330 on the verbal and math, 2000 with writing. These scores aren't bad, per se--they're pretty well above average--but they aren't incredibly competitive, either. How much, exactly, does Cambridge look at SAT scores? Having searched around some of the individual college websites (I'm particularly interested in St. Catherine's, by the way, though they seem to be really selective in terms of English students) it seems that they aren't much of a factor, more of a guideline for you to judge whether you're qualified--it's more about APs and such. Would it matter if I were to retake them, since I wouldn't even be able to put my definite scores on the application?
Also, does Cambridge look at ACT scores at all? I'm taking those in a few weeks and have a pretty good feeling that I'll do better on those than on the SAT, but I don't know if that'll help me at all. (I stayed up till three AM the night before taking the SAT and didn't prepare at all. BIG MISTAKE.) I am also going to be taking SAT II tests, definitely in Literature and probably in Spanish and US History (though I might take French and World History; I've yet to decide for sure), though I've heard that doesn't count for much.
As far as APs go I think I'm in pretty good shape. I've taken four exams so far--European History, US History, Art History, and English Lang & Comp--but only know one of my scores, which was a 4 on Euro. I'm pretty confident that I'm getting a 5 in Art History and Lang. US is a mystery to me--I either aced it or bombed it; it could go pretty much either way. By the end of senior year I'll have taken eleven exams, the aforementioned ones plus Lit, Psych, Macro- and Microeconomics, Spanish, Biology, and Statistics. I'll more than likely do well on all of those, though it's too early to tell anything for sure.
Blah blah blah--all that aside, here is what my BIG question is: is it at least worth a shot, with my performance? I realize that I don't have a guaranteed in or anything, but from what I can tell I've got a sliver of a chance in there somewhere. It probably doesn't hurt that I've been quite dedicated to English for my entire high school career... I'm on the staff of our literary magazine (and will probably be editor next year), took the most rigorous courses possible, am taking an extra course next year (Film as Literature, in addition to the AP), and have taken several creative writing classes outside of school... and my average, to my knowledge, has never dipped below an A. From what I've gathered, Cambridge (and UK schools in general) seem more interested in whether you are truly interested in your subject area than US schools do--here they care about how many clubs you've been president of, and they look for variety more than anything else, much to my detriment.
Anyway... for anyone who managed to wade through all that... do you think it's at least worth a try? Any advice on what to continue doing, or what I could do to supplement all this and better my chances? Also, any words of wisdom regarding interviews & the personal statement would be nice... I'm fairly clueless on both of those fronts.
Anything in general is welcome! Thanks in advance...
I've been toying, lately, with the idea of applying to Cambridge as an English major. What I'm a little worried about are my qualifications. I recently took the SAT and got a 1330 on the verbal and math, 2000 with writing. These scores aren't bad, per se--they're pretty well above average--but they aren't incredibly competitive, either. How much, exactly, does Cambridge look at SAT scores? Having searched around some of the individual college websites (I'm particularly interested in St. Catherine's, by the way, though they seem to be really selective in terms of English students) it seems that they aren't much of a factor, more of a guideline for you to judge whether you're qualified--it's more about APs and such. Would it matter if I were to retake them, since I wouldn't even be able to put my definite scores on the application?
Also, does Cambridge look at ACT scores at all? I'm taking those in a few weeks and have a pretty good feeling that I'll do better on those than on the SAT, but I don't know if that'll help me at all. (I stayed up till three AM the night before taking the SAT and didn't prepare at all. BIG MISTAKE.) I am also going to be taking SAT II tests, definitely in Literature and probably in Spanish and US History (though I might take French and World History; I've yet to decide for sure), though I've heard that doesn't count for much.
As far as APs go I think I'm in pretty good shape. I've taken four exams so far--European History, US History, Art History, and English Lang & Comp--but only know one of my scores, which was a 4 on Euro. I'm pretty confident that I'm getting a 5 in Art History and Lang. US is a mystery to me--I either aced it or bombed it; it could go pretty much either way. By the end of senior year I'll have taken eleven exams, the aforementioned ones plus Lit, Psych, Macro- and Microeconomics, Spanish, Biology, and Statistics. I'll more than likely do well on all of those, though it's too early to tell anything for sure.
Blah blah blah--all that aside, here is what my BIG question is: is it at least worth a shot, with my performance? I realize that I don't have a guaranteed in or anything, but from what I can tell I've got a sliver of a chance in there somewhere. It probably doesn't hurt that I've been quite dedicated to English for my entire high school career... I'm on the staff of our literary magazine (and will probably be editor next year), took the most rigorous courses possible, am taking an extra course next year (Film as Literature, in addition to the AP), and have taken several creative writing classes outside of school... and my average, to my knowledge, has never dipped below an A. From what I've gathered, Cambridge (and UK schools in general) seem more interested in whether you are truly interested in your subject area than US schools do--here they care about how many clubs you've been president of, and they look for variety more than anything else, much to my detriment.
Anyway... for anyone who managed to wade through all that... do you think it's at least worth a try? Any advice on what to continue doing, or what I could do to supplement all this and better my chances? Also, any words of wisdom regarding interviews & the personal statement would be nice... I'm fairly clueless on both of those fronts.
Anything in general is welcome! Thanks in advance...Scroll to see replies
I can't tell you much about your grades, since I don't understand how your system works. What I can tell you is that Cambridge interview pretty much anyone they think will have a chance of surviving a Cambridge degree (I think it's something like 80-90% of applicants, which is a lot more than Oxford), so as long as you write a good personal statement, get a good reference etc., you're well on your way.
Yeeees. I'm a personal statement helper here on TSR, and I can honestly tell you some of the statements we get from Americans applying to UK institutions are downright bizarre. Universities want you to say why you like your subject, what you've done to further your understanding of your subject (not just in class), what sort of competitions / summer schools you've taken in your subject (and what you got out of them), what books you've read (and what you've got out of them), and that sort of stuff, and places very little emphasis on extra-curricular activities (though most people will put a paragraph or so about them onto the end). [For what it's worth, I think the official limit for a personal statement is 47 lines of 92 characters each or 4000 characters, whichever's shorter - or something to that effect.] It seems most American students have been taught to write long, peculiar life stories about how their lives were bleak and grey before they discovered the wonders of English literature, and then everything was transformed and shiny. While that may be what American universities are looking for, that's definitely not the style for UK personal statements - make it informative, concise (but not 'short'!) and detailed. Don't waffle and don't skip detail - it's a difficult balance to achieve, but only because people have very little guidance in this matter. To that end: we have a (private, confidential) PS help forum here on TSR specifically to help people who won't get much help from their school / whoever, and you can show us your PS in there (read the FAQ first though!) and we'll give as much criticism as we're able to. There's also a limited number of example PSs on the wiki (link in the top right corner), but they're largely poorly written and we're looking to replace them as soon as possible.
As for your interview: well, I'm a mathematician, and two out of my three interviews involved solving maths problems in front of various members of staff, which isn't nearly as daunting as it sounds. Their aim is to push you to your limits and see how you cope there, rather than to test you on material. I've heard things about English students reading passages and then being asked to give their thoughts on them 15 minutes later or something, but I don't know; it'll be that sort of stuff. Basically, if you're finding it easy, you're doing it wrong - it's meant to be nerve-racking, because they want to see how you will perform under a fair bit of pressure, not just how much you know. You're expected to be nervous and stutter a lot, but above it all you're expected to show signs of intelligent, independent thought, understanding of (and passion for) your subject, and not very much else. You'll also get a general interview, which is much more like a chat ("so, why Cambridge / English / (insert college name here)?"), but which of course still counts, so make sure you don't say something stupid like "oh, well, Cambridge is likely to get me the highest-paid job".
L'Autrichienne
Anyway... for anyone who managed to wade through all that... do you think it's at least worth a try? Any advice on what to continue doing, or what I could do to supplement all this and better my chances? Also, any words of wisdom regarding interviews & the personal statement would be nice... I'm fairly clueless on both of those fronts. Anything in general is welcome! Thanks in advance...
Anything in general is welcome! Thanks in advance...Yeeees. I'm a personal statement helper here on TSR, and I can honestly tell you some of the statements we get from Americans applying to UK institutions are downright bizarre. Universities want you to say why you like your subject, what you've done to further your understanding of your subject (not just in class), what sort of competitions / summer schools you've taken in your subject (and what you got out of them), what books you've read (and what you've got out of them), and that sort of stuff, and places very little emphasis on extra-curricular activities (though most people will put a paragraph or so about them onto the end). [For what it's worth, I think the official limit for a personal statement is 47 lines of 92 characters each or 4000 characters, whichever's shorter - or something to that effect.] It seems most American students have been taught to write long, peculiar life stories about how their lives were bleak and grey before they discovered the wonders of English literature, and then everything was transformed and shiny. While that may be what American universities are looking for, that's definitely not the style for UK personal statements - make it informative, concise (but not 'short'!) and detailed. Don't waffle and don't skip detail - it's a difficult balance to achieve, but only because people have very little guidance in this matter. To that end: we have a (private, confidential) PS help forum here on TSR specifically to help people who won't get much help from their school / whoever, and you can show us your PS in there (read the FAQ first though!) and we'll give as much criticism as we're able to. There's also a limited number of example PSs on the wiki (link in the top right corner), but they're largely poorly written and we're looking to replace them as soon as possible.
As for your interview: well, I'm a mathematician, and two out of my three interviews involved solving maths problems in front of various members of staff, which isn't nearly as daunting as it sounds. Their aim is to push you to your limits and see how you cope there, rather than to test you on material. I've heard things about English students reading passages and then being asked to give their thoughts on them 15 minutes later or something, but I don't know; it'll be that sort of stuff. Basically, if you're finding it easy, you're doing it wrong - it's meant to be nerve-racking, because they want to see how you will perform under a fair bit of pressure, not just how much you know. You're expected to be nervous and stutter a lot, but above it all you're expected to show signs of intelligent, independent thought, understanding of (and passion for) your subject, and not very much else. You'll also get a general interview, which is much more like a chat ("so, why Cambridge / English / (insert college name here)?"), but which of course still counts, so make sure you don't say something stupid like "oh, well, Cambridge is likely to get me the highest-paid job".
L'Autrichienne
It probably doesn't hurt that I've been quite dedicated to English for my entire high school career... I'm on the staff of our literary magazine (and will probably be editor next year), took the most rigorous courses possible, am taking an extra course next year (Film as Literature, in addition to the AP), and have taken several creative writing classes outside of school... and my average, to my knowledge, has never dipped below an A. From what I've gathered, Cambridge (and UK schools in general) seem more interested in whether you are truly interested in your subject area than US schools do--here they care about how many clubs you've been president of, and they look for variety more than anything else, much to my detriment.
Actually, I apologise for having given a rather unfair lack of attention to this section of your post - all of this stuff is excellent, and will definitely give you a chance. It is, of course, the sort of stuff loads of serious Cambridge applicants have under their belts (so it's nothing 'special' in that sense), but it's all the sort of stuff they're looking for. You're right, they really do care how interested you are in your subject area, and this shows it quite well.
Ugh. 4am. Bedtime.
I would give it a try if I were you.
I am going to school here in the US too and I applied to Oxford (and got accepted
)
My grades were pretty similar to yours, I had a 1360 on my SATs. (However I should add that English is my second language and therefore my English score wasn't too good, I think it was a 620 for reading)
But honestly, just apply, the worst thing that can happen is that you get rejected, but at least you tried.
I am going to school here in the US too and I applied to Oxford (and got accepted
)My grades were pretty similar to yours, I had a 1360 on my SATs. (However I should add that English is my second language and therefore my English score wasn't too good, I think it was a 620 for reading)
But honestly, just apply, the worst thing that can happen is that you get rejected, but at least you tried.
I would contact individual colleges and ask what grades/qualifications they expect of American students. If you have the minimum that they require then there isn't any harm in giving it a go
L'Autrichienne
I'm particularly interested in St. Catherine's, by the way, though they seem to be really selective in terms of English students
Good luck in your application to Oxford :P
It's good to see that you've picked Catz out. I think that all colleges are really selective for everything, so it really doesn't matter too much which college you apply to. I certainly haven't heard about Catz being particularly selective for English.
As for your application in general, if you want to come, why not apply? You probably stand as good a chance as most applicants from the UK, and if you get an interview it'll be a nice trip!
I wouldn't worry too much about the SAT's - in my opinion they're horrible for differentiating good students. I managed to get scores of 800/800/790 on the SAT II's with practically no revision and absolutely no idea what the American syllabus was, which shouldn't be able to happen. I think you'd best be focusing on your AP's and interview, and less on standardised testing. As long as you don't get a horrible score Cambridge will interview you anyway.
shunter7634
Good luck in your application to Oxford :P
It's good to see that you've picked Catz out. I think that all colleges are really selective for everything, so it really doesn't matter too much which college you apply to. I certainly haven't heard about Catz being particularly selective for English.
As for your application in general, if you want to come, why not apply? You probably stand as good a chance as most applicants from the UK, and if you get an interview it'll be a nice trip!
It's good to see that you've picked Catz out. I think that all colleges are really selective for everything, so it really doesn't matter too much which college you apply to. I certainly haven't heard about Catz being particularly selective for English.
As for your application in general, if you want to come, why not apply? You probably stand as good a chance as most applicants from the UK, and if you get an interview it'll be a nice trip!
Ahaha...I realized I spelled it wrong after I posted...and then I just felt dumb. I should probably know the proper name of the college I like best, shouldn't I? Anyway.
Thanks all for the advice & positive reinforcement. I figure I have as good a chance as any at getting an interview, at least, so I'm definitely going to give it a shot! You never know till you try, after all...
L'Autrichienne
Ahaha...I realized I spelled it wrong after I posted...and then I just felt dumb. I should probably know the proper name of the college I like best, shouldn't I? Anyway.
I wouldn't worry about it - the number of tour guides that have it spelt incorrectly, sports results sheets, post coming in, official things that should know better. They all spell it the Oxford way. I think a couple of people even admitted to spelling it incorrectly on the form...
shunter7634
I wouldn't worry about it - the number of tour guides that have it spelt incorrectly, sports results sheets, post coming in, official things that should know better. They all spell it the Oxford way. I think a couple of people even admitted to spelling it incorrectly on the form...
It's the same with Magdalene. They even spelt it wrong on the RAG leaflet...
Supergrunch
It's the same with Magdalene. They even spelt it wrong on the RAG leaflet...
Unfortunately the RAG mag editor made that error and I never saw it until there had been over 10,000 copies printed. Safe to say I was a touch annoyed about that.
NOTE: In case you're not aware I'm the RAG chairman this year.
SunderX
I wouldn't worry too much about the SAT's - in my opinion they're horrible for differentiating good students. I managed to get scores of 800/800/790 on the SAT II's with practically no revision and absolutely no idea what the American syllabus was, which shouldn't be able to happen. I think you'd best be focusing on your AP's and interview, and less on standardised testing. As long as you don't get a horrible score Cambridge will interview you anyway.
The portion of your quote that I've bolded is terribly misleading and may confuse/terrify a non-American student planning to take SAT IIs. The SATII subject tests are not based off the American syllabus because there is no such thing as "The American Syllabus," so what happened with you is far from something "not supposed to happen." They're subject tests; they test your knowledge of the subject, so as long as you knew what you were doing when you took the course, you're set.
To the OP: In terms of applying to Cambridge, SATII scores are actually quite redundant as the AP is obviously higher level and more comparable to A levels, so its those scores that matter most. Applying from the American system, however, your SATI score is very important, because if they know you're an American system student, they will expect and look at your SATI score. I would advise retaking the SAT and getting a better score. Your score right now is above average in terms of being above the American national average--do take that into consideration. Judging from the scores of the six people, myself included, who applied to Cambridge from my school, your score might be average or below average in terms of SAT scores of American system Cambridge applicants.
PM for help if needed--it can be a pain to be applying to a university in the UK from an American system school that considers the situation an anomaly and has no idea how to go about it! I speak from experience
.swird
Your score right now is above average in terms of being above the American national average--do take that into consideration. Judging from the scores of the six people, myself included, who applied to Cambridge from my school, your score might be average or below average in terms of SAT scores of American system Cambridge applicants.
Yeah, that's what I was worried about. I did fine compared to most people I know, but really didn't have any idea how well I did in comparison to other people interested in Cambridge. I know I've got the minimum, at least, for some colleges that I was interested in (Pembroke asks for a 1300 and only two APs, which was sort of a relief as it's on my list now too
) buuuut I'm pretty confident I'll do better if I retake it, and if that's feasible then I've got no reason not to.One question though... if I end up retaking them on October 4th ('cause I could always do SAT IIs in November if they aren't important for this, as every other application isn't due for a while after the 15th) would I be able to get my scores early enough or would I just have to say I'm planning to retake them and leave it at that? Anybody have any idea? The College Board site doesn't tell you when you can start calling in early for your scores, only that you CAN. Or at least I can't find it if they do.
L'Autrichienne
Yeah, that's what I was worried about. I did fine compared to most people I know, but really didn't have any idea how well I did in comparison to other people interested in Cambridge. I know I've got the minimum, at least, for some colleges that I was interested in (Pembroke asks for a 1300 and only two APs, which was sort of a relief as it's on my list now too ) buuuut I'm pretty confident I'll do better if I retake it, and if that's feasible then I've got no reason not to.
One question though... if I end up retaking them on October 4th ('cause I could always do SAT IIs in November if they aren't important for this, as every other application isn't due for a while after the 15th) would I be able to get my scores early enough or would I just have to say I'm planning to retake them and leave it at that? Anybody have any idea? The College Board site doesn't tell you when you can start calling in early for your scores, only that you CAN. Or at least I can't find it if they do.
) buuuut I'm pretty confident I'll do better if I retake it, and if that's feasible then I've got no reason not to.One question though... if I end up retaking them on October 4th ('cause I could always do SAT IIs in November if they aren't important for this, as every other application isn't due for a while after the 15th) would I be able to get my scores early enough or would I just have to say I'm planning to retake them and leave it at that? Anybody have any idea? The College Board site doesn't tell you when you can start calling in early for your scores, only that you CAN. Or at least I can't find it if they do.
If you found that information on their site, you might want to email them to make sure it's not 1300/1600. As unbelivable as this sounds, when I asked last year, it turned out that some of the colleges had actually not updated their US requirements and were still asking for scores out of the old 1600, rather than the present 2400.
I can't really answer the second question, sorry *sheepish*. I took the SATI in December of my Junior year, so I was lucky enough to get that out of the way early. There is a spot on the Cambridge app for you to put down what exams you're planning on taking/retaking, if I remember correctly. Best of luck!
swird
If you found that information on their site, you might want to email them to make sure it's not 1300/1600. As unbelivable as this sounds, when I asked last year, it turned out that some of the colleges had actually not updated their US requirements and were still asking for scores out of the old 1600, rather than the present 2400.
I can't really answer the second question, sorry *sheepish*. I took the SATI in December of my Junior year, so I was lucky enough to get that out of the way early. There is a spot on the Cambridge app for you to put down what exams you're planning on taking/retaking, if I remember correctly. Best of luck!
I can't really answer the second question, sorry *sheepish*. I took the SATI in December of my Junior year, so I was lucky enough to get that out of the way early. There is a spot on the Cambridge app for you to put down what exams you're planning on taking/retaking, if I remember correctly. Best of luck!
Oh, that's what I assumed they meant. A lot of US schools still ask for scores out of 1600 (in addition to the 2400) 'cause they don't really know what to make of the writing bit yet and are more accustomed to the 1600 system. I thought that was the case with the Pembroke site but I guess I'm mistaken! Weird. I was going to e-mail them about APs and stuff anyway, but I wouldn't have thought to mention that, so thanks for the heads up.
Like someone else has already said, the best thing to do would be to email colleges that you're interested in and to ask what they expect from applicants who've gone through a non A level/IB education, and what equivalents they would accept. They'll give you the best answer possible!
If it helps - I also applied to US universities, and thus took the SAT I and IIs. On my application for Cambridge using the (now defunct?) Cambridge Application Form, there was a section asking for my SAT scores. At that point in time I'd only taken SAT I, so I filled those in, and at interview I was asked if I'd taken SAT II, which I had by that time, and was asked for my scores for SAT II. I don't think SAT scores actually count for very much in the grand scheme of admissions, but perhaps a good SAT score might just give you the edge over a very similar applicant?
If it helps - I also applied to US universities, and thus took the SAT I and IIs. On my application for Cambridge using the (now defunct?) Cambridge Application Form, there was a section asking for my SAT scores. At that point in time I'd only taken SAT I, so I filled those in, and at interview I was asked if I'd taken SAT II, which I had by that time, and was asked for my scores for SAT II. I don't think SAT scores actually count for very much in the grand scheme of admissions, but perhaps a good SAT score might just give you the edge over a very similar applicant?
Oh, what Psyche87 said jogged my memory--during my interview I was also asked my SATI and SATII scores (no idea why, since the guy was holding the form I filled out with precisely that information, all he had to do was look down), and then he proceeded to for some reason scribble away and add them all up. Then I think he promptly forgot about them when he looked at the form and saw my AP scores and began happily commenting on them.
I'm an American who applied to Catz and has an offer for 2008. Although I'm sure that it varies from case to case, it seemed to me that the interview, the personal statement, the reference and the APs are what are most important. Technically speaking I don't think that I ever even told Cambridge my Math SATI score because I simply didn't put it on UCAS (I'm not sure that I recommend that course of action), and neither my SATIs or my SATIIs were ever brought up in any correspondence or my interview. They did ask for my grades, but because LSE and UCL didn't even care enough to see them, I doubt that Cambridge puts much emphasis on them either.
I definitely think that you should apply given your interest in both English and Cambridge.
Good luck!
I definitely think that you should apply given your interest in both English and Cambridge.
Good luck!
Icarus_Airline
I'm an American who applied to Catz and has an offer for 2008. Although I'm sure that it varies from case to case, it seemed to me that the interview, the personal statement, the reference and the APs are what are most important. Technically speaking I don't think that I ever even told Cambridge my Math SATI score because I simply didn't put it on UCAS (I'm not sure that I recommend that course of action), and neither my SATIs or my SATIIs were ever brought up in any correspondence or my interview. They did ask for my grades, but because LSE and UCL didn't even care enough to see them, I doubt that Cambridge puts much emphasis on them either.
I definitely think that you should apply given your interest in both English and Cambridge.
Good luck!
I definitely think that you should apply given your interest in both English and Cambridge.
Good luck!
UCL didn't ask for your grades?! Interesting... I was looking to maybe apply there too and that makes it exponentially more appealing.
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