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Think 25 Alcohol Retailing
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mja
The problem is that the law is too complex. Under s149 of the Licensing Act 2003 it is an offence to purchase alcohol on behalf of a child.
But as you rightly say, it isn't usually an offence to buy alcohol then supply it to a child - it is only an offence in very particular cases e.g. on licensed premises.
This distinction - between "on behalf of" and simply supplying - makes perfect sense to me as a lawyer, and I'm sure makes equal sense to the supermarket's lawyers too.
But it's far too difficult to enforce at the checkout - particularly when there are severe penalties for getting it wrong.
But as you rightly say, it isn't usually an offence to buy alcohol then supply it to a child - it is only an offence in very particular cases e.g. on licensed premises.
This distinction - between "on behalf of" and simply supplying - makes perfect sense to me as a lawyer, and I'm sure makes equal sense to the supermarket's lawyers too.
But it's far too difficult to enforce at the checkout - particularly when there are severe penalties for getting it wrong.
So on behalf of would mean a kid comes up to a random guy, says 'buy me a bottle of vodka' and he buys the vodka on behalf of the child.
Whereas if my Mum buys me a bottle of wine she is supplying it, even though she isn't going to drink it and is buying it on behalf of me because I am underage?
Man that is confusing!
Spotty Dog
It's company policy in Sainsburies to take the details of all ID's checked. I think it's because they can then trace who checked whose ID and track people if trading standards come back at them.
Sorry for quoting a 4 month old post, but is that even legal? I certainly wouldn't let them keep a record of my ID details just because it's their 'company policy'.
fran.ha
So on behalf of would mean a kid comes up to a random guy, says 'buy me a bottle of vodka' and he buys the vodka on behalf of the child.
Whereas if my Mum buys me a bottle of wine she is supplying it, even though she isn't going to drink it and is buying it on behalf of me because I am underage?
Man that is confusing!
Whereas if my Mum buys me a bottle of wine she is supplying it, even though she isn't going to drink it and is buying it on behalf of me because I am underage?
Man that is confusing!
If your mum is buying it for the sole intenion of giving it to you then she breaking the law
Of course the big flaw is your mum might buy it on her own and give it to you later
Thats why sometimes they refuse to serve an 18 year odl with a 16 year old as its likely they will both go and drink it later.
Clubber Lang
If your mum is buying it for the sole intenion of giving it to you then she breaking the law
Of course the big flaw is your mum might buy it on her own and give it to you later.
Of course the big flaw is your mum might buy it on her own and give it to you later.
Seems kind of illogical when it is perfectly acceptable for her to give me a drink at home, but buying a drink with the intention of giving it to me is against the law
All I can say is I'm glad I'm 18!
Clubber Lang
If your mum is buying it for the sole intenion of giving it to you then she breaking the law
Of course the big flaw is your mum might buy it on her own and give it to you later
Thats why sometimes they refuse to serve an 18 year odl with a 16 year old as its likely they will both go and drink it later.
Of course the big flaw is your mum might buy it on her own and give it to you later
Thats why sometimes they refuse to serve an 18 year odl with a 16 year old as its likely they will both go and drink it later.
It's perfectly legal to give alcohol to any child from the age of 5. It's only breaking the law if they actually hand over the bottle, and even that's a new law.
The diea is to stop under 18s having alcohol bought for them to stop them getting pissed etc
I spose thei mplication is if your mother gave you alcohol she would do so because she thinsk you are resonsible and all that crap
the other flaw is a lot of chavs etc but their kids alcohol for them.
I spose thei mplication is if your mother gave you alcohol she would do so because she thinsk you are resonsible and all that crap
the other flaw is a lot of chavs etc but their kids alcohol for them.
Clubber Lang
If your mum is buying it for the sole intenion of giving it to you then she breaking the law
That's not quite true. If she is buying it for a minor, in the sense of buying it on his behalf, then she commits an offence.
But if she buys it, intending to give it to her child as a gift e.g. a birthday present, she doesn't commit an offence. You don't, in law, buy gifts on behalf of their recipient - you buy them on behalf of yourself, then give them to the recipient, even if giving the gift to the recipient was always what was intended.
And equally it is perfectly legal for her to buy alcohol intending to take it home and allow her minor child to consume it all.
But as I said, this distinction is a much easier drawn in legal theory than at a busy checkout.
Don't mind even the fairly excessive amount of IDing for the actual purchase of alcohol - it isn't worth the risk for the retailer concerned.
What puzzles me is the refusal to sell food\soft drinks in pubs for people who can't produce ID (usually because they didn't bring it, because they weren't planning on drinking). It's not as if they're going to get into trouble legally as far as I'm aware, and it's not as if Pizza Express do it despite the fact that someone might be buying a bottle of wine on the table.
What puzzles me is the refusal to sell food\soft drinks in pubs for people who can't produce ID (usually because they didn't bring it, because they weren't planning on drinking). It's not as if they're going to get into trouble legally as far as I'm aware, and it's not as if Pizza Express do it despite the fact that someone might be buying a bottle of wine on the table.
Dionysus
It's perfectly legal to give alcohol to any child from the age of 5. It's only breaking the law if they actually hand over the bottle, and even that's a new law.
The distinction is giving someone a bit of your own alcohol when you are at home or whatever - and buying alcohol specifically to give to a minor
Obviously its pretty hard to prove most of this stuff hence when they wil lrefuse sales on suspicion.
Huw Davies
Don't mind even the fairly excessive amount of IDing for the actual purchase of alcohol - it isn't worth the risk for the retailer concerned.
What puzzles me is the refusal to sell food\soft drinks in pubs for people who can't produce ID (usually because they didn't bring it, because they weren't planning on drinking). It's not as if they're going to get into trouble legally as far as I'm aware, and it's not as if Pizza Express do it despite the fact that someone might be buying a bottle of wine on the table.
What puzzles me is the refusal to sell food\soft drinks in pubs for people who can't produce ID (usually because they didn't bring it, because they weren't planning on drinking). It's not as if they're going to get into trouble legally as far as I'm aware, and it's not as if Pizza Express do it despite the fact that someone might be buying a bottle of wine on the table.
I've never heard of this, why would they ID you to buy a soft drink?
On a side note I have got ID'd for red bull before
quadruple_twist
Sorry for quoting a 4 month old post, but is that even legal? I certainly wouldn't let them keep a record of my ID details just because it's their 'company policy'.
I admit I'm one of the underagers who uses a fake ID...I've used it at Sainsbury's several times and it's pretty much always accepted, no details ever taken down, I would be a bit worried if they did!
It's so stupid there was a girl trying to buy some drink in front of me in sainsbury and I got id'd. I didnt have any so she couldn't buy it. wtf lol?
I was ID'd once for a Coke in a pub once
milliondollarcorpse
"Sorry, it's policy".
I guess it's so that underaged people can't come in and buy an orange juice but have an alcoholic drink bought for them by a friend. And I suppose it keeps out underagers in general (as they often make the person leave).
Clubber Lang
I was ID'd once for a Coke in a pub once
Was it a wetherspoons or somewhere? A lot of places have an 18+ policy to be on the premises, regardless of what you're drinking.
A place in Derby has just introduced a challenge 30 policy after they were shut down for a while for failing too many police test purchases.
quadruple_twist
Sorry for quoting a 4 month old post, but is that even legal? I certainly wouldn't let them keep a record of my ID details just because it's their 'company policy'.
It probably wouldn't be legal to keep a record of your ID details in the way you are describing, but that isn't what they do. Sainsbury's (and I'm pretty sure a lot of others are the same) cashiers log every instance of ID being asked for and the outcome. The most that will be written down is the time and date, the product purchased, what proof was shown and the year of birth.
Taking a guess, I would say that a lot of it is to do with supermarket management monitoring their staff to ensure that they are following the retailing guidelines, and you can hardly blame them. It's not remotely good news if people start getting it wrong.
well, i work in a supermarket chain-not saying which-but all i can say is that the think 25 policy is there to protect the staff.
When a young person is trying to buy alcohol, we do not know how old they are.
If they look under 25, they could be anything from 16 to 24. It depends on how mature you look for your age..
If you look 18 you could be 15!!
So we ask for ID. I have customers argue endlessly saying that they are 22 or whatever, but the point is I do not know that. I need the ID so i can legally sell the alcohol.
And as for group ID-ing, it is a great idea.
And while I know it is a grey area, the law is that at home/private party, a minor can drink alcohol SUPERVISED.
The law is that I cannot sell alcohol to a minor and i cannot sell alcohol to someone if i have reason to suspect it will be passed on to a minor.
If a parent buys alcohol with intention of letting her child drink it all, i will only refuse sale if i have reason to suspect she will be doing this.
For example if they make it blantantly obvious in fornt of me, talking about it and so forth-i will have to refuse sale if there is no ID from the child.
When a young person is trying to buy alcohol, we do not know how old they are.
If they look under 25, they could be anything from 16 to 24. It depends on how mature you look for your age..
If you look 18 you could be 15!!
So we ask for ID. I have customers argue endlessly saying that they are 22 or whatever, but the point is I do not know that. I need the ID so i can legally sell the alcohol.
And as for group ID-ing, it is a great idea.
And while I know it is a grey area, the law is that at home/private party, a minor can drink alcohol SUPERVISED.
The law is that I cannot sell alcohol to a minor and i cannot sell alcohol to someone if i have reason to suspect it will be passed on to a minor.
If a parent buys alcohol with intention of letting her child drink it all, i will only refuse sale if i have reason to suspect she will be doing this.
For example if they make it blantantly obvious in fornt of me, talking about it and so forth-i will have to refuse sale if there is no ID from the child.
Reue
Got Id in a game store the other day cause the game was a 15 rating. I mean seriously.. Im 21.
"Do you have any ID?"
ID for what? It's a 15
"Yeah.. so got any ID?"
What? No, I dont carry ID to purchase 15 games, get your manager.
"Hey (manager's name) does this kid look over 15?"
"He looks over 20, what are you on about??"
Total over-reacting by some people. and it's even worse for alcohol.
What I hate is going into a shop to buy alcohol, approaching a till and then seeing the duty manager run over to the till person and say (quite loudly) "ID that guy, he deffinatly isnt 18!). Well guess that's why I have the university degree and you're working nightshifts in Tescos moron, because you clearly have no common sense or customer service skills.
It's damn annoying. Dont even get me started on the group IDing as well..
"Do you have any ID?"
ID for what? It's a 15
"Yeah.. so got any ID?"
What? No, I dont carry ID to purchase 15 games, get your manager.
"Hey (manager's name) does this kid look over 15?"
"He looks over 20, what are you on about??"
Total over-reacting by some people. and it's even worse for alcohol.
What I hate is going into a shop to buy alcohol, approaching a till and then seeing the duty manager run over to the till person and say (quite loudly) "ID that guy, he deffinatly isnt 18!). Well guess that's why I have the university degree and you're working nightshifts in Tescos moron, because you clearly have no common sense or customer service skills.
It's damn annoying. Dont even get me started on the group IDing as well..
lol
Imagine if you were 25+ and asked for ID buying a 12 game
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