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Friend also asked for ID when I bought alcohol
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Original post by Theloniouss
Not to mention, OP's friend isn't underage so it wouldn't be a proxy sale anyway.
Correct. The whole discussion is completely and utterly irrelvant for all sorts of reasons including this one.
Although it does raise an interesting point: in some cases the actual age of person, and therefore whether it is a proxy sale or not, won't matter. Say theoretically two 18 year olds go shopping. Person A has ID, person B does not and as a result B asks A to buy them alcohol. Not a proxy sale, perfectly legal, they're both above age. However if the store had reasonable proof that B had asked A, they'd mark it as a proxy sale based on the apparent age, despite technically not being a proxy sale.
Obviously that's also totally irrelevant, but an interesting scenario nonetheless.
Original post by ReadingMum
I have had this happen. When I was buying a family shop and my 18 yr old daughter was with me to help, they refused to sell me alcohol because she didn't have ID on her. I ended up leaving her in the car with the first shop while I went round again and used a different till to check out with alcohol.
Something similar happened to me too. My mum was visiting me in uni and took me to do a shop, plus did some shopping for herself which included a bottle of wine. The person on the till refused to sell my mum alcohol because I didn't have ID even though we were paying for our shopping separately! It seemed totally ridiculous and I refused to shop there again.
Original post by black tea
Something similar happened to me too. My mum was visiting me in uni and took me to do a shop, plus did some shopping for herself which included a bottle of wine. The person on the till refused to sell my mum alcohol because I didn't have ID even though we were paying for our shopping separately! It seemed totally ridiculous and I refused to shop there again.
The cashier did their job. Stop being so self absorbed.
Original post by IWMTom
The cashier did their job. Stop being so self absorbed.
How am I self-absorbed? Why should someone else not be able to buy alcohol just because they happened to come to the supermarket with me?
Original post by black tea
How am I self-absorbed? Why should someone else not be able to buy alcohol just because they happened to come to the supermarket with me?
Because the cashier risks losing their job if you turn out to be a mystery shopper? This isn't rocket science.
Original post by black tea
How am I self-absorbed? Why should someone else not be able to buy alcohol just because they happened to come to the supermarket with me?
Under cover trading standards
Original post by IWMTom
Because the cashier risks losing their job if you turn out to be a mystery shopper? This isn't rocket science.
So should they just not be selling alcohol to anyone then?
If I turned to not be a mystery shopper, what would the problem be exactly? I was an adult, and not buying any alcohol myself, I just happened to stand in a queue next to someone who was buying alcohol.Original post by black tea
So should they just not be selling alcohol to anyone then? If I turned to not be a mystery shopper, what would the problem be exactly? I was an adult, and not buying any alcohol myself, I just happened to stand in a queue next to someone who was buying alcohol.
If I turned to not be a mystery shopper, what would the problem be exactly? I was an adult, and not buying any alcohol myself, I just happened to stand in a queue next to someone who was buying alcohol.Obviously the cashier noticed a link between you two, presumably because you were talking with each other.
Go look up the relevant legislation before speaking out your arse.
Original post by IWMTom
Obviously the cashier noticed a link between you two, presumably because you were talking with each other.
Go look up the relevant legislation before speaking out your arse.
Go look up the relevant legislation before speaking out your arse.
Please enlighten me and give me a link. I did not realise it was a crime to speak to someone whilst buying alcohol.
Original post by black tea
Please enlighten me and give me a link. I did not realise it was a crime to speak to someone whilst buying alcohol.
Proxy sales are a big problem for cashier's. They would rather reject the sale of alcohol than risk an accidental proxy sale.
I really don't see what your problem is, the cashier was preserving their job as they've been trained to do.
Original post by IWMTom
Proxy sales are a big problem for cashier's. They would rather reject the sale of alcohol than risk an accidental proxy sale.
I really don't see what your problem is, the cashier was preserving their job as they've been trained to do.
I really don't see what your problem is, the cashier was preserving their job as they've been trained to do.
Like I say, I was an adult and no one was doing anything illegal - I am entitled to not be happy about the situation.
And as an aside, it is not against the law for a child over 5 to drink alcohol on private premises so a a parent could very legally buy alcohol for a child as long as it was drunk in their home.
Original post by IWMTom
The mind boggles as to how somebody could be so obtuse...
The mind boggles as to how somebody could be so obtuse...
Well, be glad you are acute and not obtuse like me then...
Original post by black tea
Well, be glad you are acute and not obtuse like me then...
Awhh shucks
Are we really going down the proxy sale thing again? Section 149 of the Licensing Act 2003 describes the laws surrounding proxy sales.
It's not a long read, but tl:dr -- A person commits an offence if he buys or attempts to buy alcohol on behalf of an individual aged under 18
So for starters, if all persons involved are over 18 then it's not even a proxy sale and no laws have been broken. Beyond that, it has nothing to do with legislation and we are discussing the individual policies of stores. As I mentioned previously in the thread, the policy of the store I worked at required reasonable proof before we could declare a proxy sale. The training explicitly mentioned that even when young customers are shopping together (or an older customer shopping with a young customer, say parent and child), we only need to see ID from the person purchasing the alcohol. It appears Tesco has a different policy, and in some cases merely shopping with a young person is enough for them to consider it a proxy sale.
Now whether people agree with that policy is up for the debate. On one hand, I can understand Tesco being "better safe than sorry". However it's quite over the top to conclude "well they're shopping together, so obviously it must be a proxy sale". It doesn't sound like a particularly effective policy either, because as soon as people are aware of it they'll just shop separately. Or Tesco piss off their customer base and they go shop somewhere else.
As far as trading standards go, they may or may not be aware of a specific store policy. But it's not up to trading standards to verify an in store policy is being followed, Tesco will have an internal team for that. An undercover shopper is going to be testing the law specifically, and in order to do that they'd have to make it clear they're attempting a proxy sale. Trading standards would not just send 2 people into a store and then pull you up for a proxy sale because the cashier wouldn't have any indication a proxy sale were being conducted. Tesco's internal team might do that, but that's testing their policy rather than the law.
So before people make themselves look more daft, I'd recommend familiarising yourselves with what the actual law is, and then being very clear where the law ends and where the internal policy begins.
Edit: The original post has now been restored for those that were missing the context. OP is still banned though
It's not a long read, but tl:dr -- A person commits an offence if he buys or attempts to buy alcohol on behalf of an individual aged under 18
So for starters, if all persons involved are over 18 then it's not even a proxy sale and no laws have been broken. Beyond that, it has nothing to do with legislation and we are discussing the individual policies of stores. As I mentioned previously in the thread, the policy of the store I worked at required reasonable proof before we could declare a proxy sale. The training explicitly mentioned that even when young customers are shopping together (or an older customer shopping with a young customer, say parent and child), we only need to see ID from the person purchasing the alcohol. It appears Tesco has a different policy, and in some cases merely shopping with a young person is enough for them to consider it a proxy sale.
Now whether people agree with that policy is up for the debate. On one hand, I can understand Tesco being "better safe than sorry". However it's quite over the top to conclude "well they're shopping together, so obviously it must be a proxy sale". It doesn't sound like a particularly effective policy either, because as soon as people are aware of it they'll just shop separately. Or Tesco piss off their customer base and they go shop somewhere else.
As far as trading standards go, they may or may not be aware of a specific store policy. But it's not up to trading standards to verify an in store policy is being followed, Tesco will have an internal team for that. An undercover shopper is going to be testing the law specifically, and in order to do that they'd have to make it clear they're attempting a proxy sale. Trading standards would not just send 2 people into a store and then pull you up for a proxy sale because the cashier wouldn't have any indication a proxy sale were being conducted. Tesco's internal team might do that, but that's testing their policy rather than the law.
So before people make themselves look more daft, I'd recommend familiarising yourselves with what the actual law is, and then being very clear where the law ends and where the internal policy begins.
Edit: The original post has now been restored for those that were missing the context. OP is still banned though
(edited 3 years ago)
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