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Reply 20
Well I hope i get an interview cause im realy interested in law and I have alot to say about it. Thanks for all your advice anyway guys Im going up to cambridge on friday so Ill take a look at some colleges and see what teyre like. Is it true that all the colleges house all undergraduates for all 3 years in-college? My friend said that to me lol but I take most things at face value
Reply 21
Ghassan
In terms of getting in or not it does not matter which college you choose.

I don't know why so many people say this, because it is quite simply not true. Perhaps it's born out if a desire not to offend people from other colleges, or an idealistic view of the infallibilty of the pooling system, I don't know, but it does make a difference, if only a small one.

Obviously there's no college in Cambridge that is not academic; there's no back door unfortunately, and no applicant would get in unless they met a certain standard.

But at the same time it's not true that 'if you're good enough, you'll get in'; there are many applicants who would certainly be good enough to thrive on a cambridge course who get rejected because there is not enough space, admissions tutors say this themselves.
While statistically speaking, there is little difference between colleges, there are certain colleges that attract a higher calibre of applicant, typically the larger, older, more central colleges, though the differnce is marginal, and these are that little bit harder to get into for a borderline candidate (not that having an average of 91% makes the OP in any way borderline); they will simply be overshadowed completely by the competition, so much so that they will not even be pooled, whereas they may have been accepted or at least pooled by another college less overwhelmed with outstanding applicants.

This doesn't mean it's impossible to get into the more popular colleges, and strong applicants should not be put off applying to these places. But to say a mathematician would find it no more difficult to get into Trinity than a less popular college and so on is just misleading.
Reply 22
I don't think many colleges accommodate ALL students IN COLLEGE for ALL three years, if by "in college" you mean on the main site. However I think you will always be in college-owned accommodation for all three years, you just might be a few minutes walk from the main site. I think its worth considering accommodation when you choose a college, as it does vary.
Reply 23
Galatea
I don't know why so many people say this, because it is quite simply not true. Perhaps it's born out if a desire not to offend people from other colleges, or an idealistic view of the infallibilty of the pooling system, I don't know, but it does make a difference, if only a small one.

Obviously there's no college in Cambridge that is not academic; there's no back door unfortunately, and no applicant would get in unless they met a certain standard.

But at the same time it's not true that 'if you're good enough, you'll get in'; there are many applicants who would certainly be good enough to thrive on a cambridge course who get rejected because there is not enough space, admissions tutors say this themselves.
While statistically speaking, there is little difference between colleges, there are certain colleges that attract a higher calibre of applicant, typically the larger, older, more central colleges, though the differnce is marginal, and these are that little bit harder to get into for a borderline candidate (not that having an average of 91% makes the OP in any way borderline); they will simply be overshadowed completely by the competition, so much so that they will not even be pooled, whereas they may have been accepted or at least pooled by another college less overwhelmed with outstanding applicants.

This doesn't mean it's impossible to get into the more popular colleges, and strong applicants should not be put off applying to these places. But to say a mathematician would find it no more difficult to get into Trinity than a less popular college and so on is just misleading.


So your argument is that the interviewers at a popular college will see an applicant only in the context of other applicants interviews at that particular college. Now my point is that all of the interviewers belong to a faculty and hence teach university wide. That is why they know the level of ability an applicant must have and if they interview someone who they think can cope with the course and who is one of the best applicants university wide, then they will offer him a place or pool him. That is just the case. If you think that something such as "being overshadows" is a factor in the interview process then you are underestimating the quality of the interview system. There are certain criteria that determine if an applicant gets an offer or not and these criteria apply to the whole university and are the same for all applicants no matter what college they are applying to.

In the end the only thing you might avoid by applying to a less popular college is to be pooled. The chance of being pooled of course is higher at a popular college, but if someone really wants to go to trinity I think the "risk" of being pooled should not stop him from doing so.
Reply 24
Ghassan
That is just the case. If you think that something such as "being overshadows" is a factor in the interview process then you are underestimating the quality of the interview system. There are certain criteria that determine if an applicant gets an offer or not and these criteria apply to the whole university and are the same for all applicants no matter what college they are applying to.


I agree that if there almost certainly are inter-college meetings on the overall standard of the applicant pool, and admissions tutors at less popular colleges would no doubt be aware that there may be stronger applicants applying elsewhere. (Though this does depend on the size of the subject)

I'm not disputing this; what I'm saying is that at the most competitive colleges that attract very strong applicants, admissions tutors are going to be more overwhelmed with outstanding applicants; they are likely to be more selective about who goes in the pool, given that obviously they can't pool huge numbers of people. I maintain that it is more likely that a good candidate will slip through the net if they apply to a more popular college that attracts very strong applicants.

That is why they know the level of ability an applicant must have and if they interview someone who they think can cope with the course and who is one of the best applicants university wide, then they will offer him a place or pool him.


This is not necessarily the case for every worthy applicant; admissions tutors say themselves, every year they are forced to reject people they would like to accept. The system is not infallible; nobody pretends that it is.

In the end the only thing you might avoid by applying to a less popular college is to be pooled. The chance of being pooled of course is higher at a popular college, but if someone really wants to go to trinity I think the "risk" of being pooled should not stop him from doing so.


Given that the chances of being fished out of the pool are only one in six, it's certainly not something to be relied upon.

The other thing I would point out is the tripos results for each college vary considerably, so much so that there is actually a table that ranks colleges in order, and by and large there is little fluctuation within this table. You could simply say that this is a result of better teaching, support and facilities at a particular college, but given that most of the teaching is done centrally by the faculty, and all the academics at any college are going to be excellent, I don't think this is a very sufficient explanation; part of it is also that some colleges admit a higher calibre of applicant to begin with, because a higher calibre of applicant applied.
As lots of people have said, your school is talking rubbish - I applied to a college that is consistently near the top of the Tompkins table with UMS that I don't think were as good as yours (I certainly didn't have anything at 98%) and from a state school and still managed to get in. Apply where you like :smile:
Reply 26
Apply where you like- but don't discount the less popular colleges. It might be you can find one which both you and your school would be happy about, and whilst I think you should definitely do what you want to do, it is true that your school write your reference and you may need to consider that. It's not fair, but thats the way it is. Good Luck!
Reply 27
is there a college you want to go to?
Reply 28
MikeHarris
I do appreciate what they are saying. They said to me Churchill isnt a majorly competitive campus and it has a history of taken alot of students from state schools (I go to a grammar). They also suggested History as they thought it was my best intersts as its less competitive than Law AND I got 98%. They werent FORCEFUL just a bit pushy but ill see what happens =]


Churchill, uncompetitive? What?

http://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduates/courses/law/

Churchill has produced outstanding examination results in Law in recent times; we have finished among the top three Cambridge colleges in Law during six of the past seven years, and we have finished #1 in three of those years.

In order to maintain our formidable academic prowess in Law, we have to apply extremely stringent standards for admission. To stand any chance of success, an applicant will have to have achieved exceptionally strong marks at GCSE level and will have to be demonstrably on the way to achieving similarly impressive marks in his or her A-levels. Everyone admitted during the last decade has attained at least 9A*s at GCSE; we are very unlikely to call for interview any applicant who has fewer than 5A*s at GCSE or an average of less than 90% at AS-level across his/her three most relevant subjects. We normally attach a condition of AAAA to our offers in Law, and we never attach a condition more lenient than AAA.
Reply 29
Opalfruit
Apply where you like- but don't discount the less popular colleges. It might be you can find one which both you and your school would be happy about, and whilst I think you should definitely do what you want to do, it is true that your school write your reference and you may need to consider that. It's not fair, but thats the way it is. Good Luck!


Given that his school's priority seems to be its own record of oxbridge admissions, I can't imagine them writing an unfairly poor reference under any circumstances. So there is no reason to give in to their odd suggestions.
rkd
Churchill, uncompetitive? What?

http://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduates/courses/law/

Churchill has produced outstanding examination results in Law in recent times; we have finished among the top three Cambridge colleges in Law during six of the past seven years, and we have finished #1 in three of those years.

In order to maintain our formidable academic prowess in Law, we have to apply extremely stringent standards for admission. To stand any chance of success, an applicant will have to have achieved exceptionally strong marks at GCSE level and will have to be demonstrably on the way to achieving similarly impressive marks in his or her A-levels. Everyone admitted during the last decade has attained at least 9A*s at GCSE; we are very unlikely to call for interview any applicant who has fewer than 5A*s at GCSE or an average of less than 90% at AS-level across his/her three most relevant subjects. We normally attach a condition of AAAA to our offers in Law, and we never attach a condition more lenient than AAA.


Exactly, I was just about to point that out myself. Ironically, the OP's teachers have been pushing him towards one of the most competitive colleges for law! It's all very well to consider the *overall* popularity of a college, but subject reputation is important as well.

Point that out to your teachers, OP, as they don't know what they're talking about. And apply where you want-- law is competitive at any college, so you might as well apply to one you like.

I applied to King's (not for law though) despite knowing it was competitive as I wanted to apply somewhere I had a good feeling about. You have the kind of grades/UMS marks any college would be looking for, so I can't see you would be at a particular disadvantage anywhere.
Reply 31
Hopefully you are right and the school will write a good refernce no matter what. Sadly I do actually know someone who was told they would not be given a good refernce and would not be allowed to attend the 'oxbridge preperation' type classes the school put on unless they applied to a specific college. The college in question was the one the head teacher had gone too. To be honest that is probably a pretty rare situation, but some teachers and so on out there are pretty crazy. But yeah, apply where you want!!!
Reply 32
Oh dear. I got 90% at AS average, Im taking 4 A Levels but that includes critical thinking, and I got 3 and a half A*s at GCSE. I take it applying churchill is a waste of time? Didnt realise how tough it was that has kind of killed me a bit lol
Reply 33
I feel insaley silly. This is from the cambridge site for all law apps:

Churchill College has particularly stringent entrance requirements for Law. See the Churchill College website for details.

So that would be the hardest college nice.
Reply 34
MikeHarris
Oh dear. I got 90% at AS average, Im taking 4 A Levels but that includes critical thinking, and I got 3 and a half A*s at GCSE. I take it applying churchill is a waste of time? Didnt realise how tough it was that has kind of killed me a bit lol


Well, unless you're better than every other Law applicant with 8 A*s since 1997, I'd say applying to Churchill is basically a waste of time, yep :p: They are enormously competitive, though, I can't think of anywhere else that has such harsh criteria - definitely don't let this put you off applying to another Cambridge college!

And look on the bright side - now you have a damn good reason for making your school let you apply to a college you actually like.
Reply 35
It is also true that the 'competitiveness' of a particular subject at a particular college cannot necessarily be deduced from numerical statistics. Some pools of applicants are very self-selecting (for example the applicant:acceptance ratio for Mathematics at Trinity is less than 3:1, but the standards for admission are famously exacting nonetheless).
Reply 36
yeah churchill law is hardcore for some reason (never understood why tbh, they don't imho have the best academics or the best facilities, i guess "reputation" means their dos just has the ability to pick the best and get them). Apply to the college you like for the subject you want to study, thi will be most comfortable for you and so you will perform best at interview, and so will give you the best chance of getting in, at the end of the day everyone takes the same exams.
Reply 37
I sometimes wonder whether if I had dropped out of my College and reapplied, whether I would get into John's or Trinity for History. I think the answer would be probably not. I would like to think the pooling system is foolproof but I'm not 100% confident that it truly is. It's got a lot to be said for it though, I agree.
Reply 38
If your college were to ever write you a crap reference for not listening to their (blatantly incorrect) advice about Churchill, they would both be shooting themselves in the foot and risk a law suit on your part.

Although, to be honest, with 3.5 A*s, you'd have to give one hell of an interview to get accepted to read Law at Cambridge. Unless of course you come from a comprehensive where 3.5 A*s is exceptional... which doesn't appear to be so if your teachers consider themselves to be so clued up on oxbridge admissions.
Reply 39
4321234

Although, to be honest, with 3.5 A*s, you'd have to give one hell of an interview to get accepted to read Law at Cambridge. Unless of course you come from a comprehensive where 3.5 A*s is exceptional... which doesn't appear to be so if your teachers consider themselves to be so clued up on oxbridge admissions.


I am not convinced that this is necessarily true. Students can improve dramatically between GCSE and A-level (the AS results will be crucial I imagine, and at 90% or slightly above seem very healthy).

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