[Official Thread] Russian invasion of Ukraine

Such as...?

It would be tedious to list all the variables, so I'll cut to the chase.

It is possible that Russia could justify an invasion on Finland and Sweden, but not in the same way as Ukraine. Russia has already warned the two countries on the basis of regional stability, should they attempt to join NATO. Finland, as you mentioned, shares a border with Russia, so there's geographical reasons for ensuring that Finland doesn't join NATO.

Hmm, do you think that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is right, justified or both?

I think that NATO's gradual and continuous expansion to the East is unjustifiable, careless, and irresponsible. Russia's response has been forced by NATO, thus I think the invasion is justified in that sense. Hot take, but that's how I feel as an objective bystander.

Do I morally justify the killing of innocents? Never.

I think there's a great irony in this situation, from Russia's perspective. Their invasion justifies further NATO expansion to the East and a means of protecting themselves from Russia, since Russia probably wouldn't want to attack NATO directly. I can see this invasion as fueling NATO expansion into Sweden and Finland, perhaps.

Some very backwards logic that countries voluntarily joining NATO out of fear of Russia, somehow explains or even justifies its recent actions.

Like beating someone up for joining an increasingly large anti-bullying campaign.

Thanks! I wanted to clarify on the two since they seem similar but can mean different things, I'm glad to hear that you don't think the invasion is morally correct.

I think there's a great irony in this situation, from Russia's perspective. Their invasion justifies further NATO expansion to the East and a means of protecting themselves from Russia, since Russia probably wouldn't want to attack NATO directly. I can see this invasion as fueling NATO expansion into Sweden and Finland, perhaps.

Yes, I think NATO will feel that their presence in the East is more justified now. However, whatever action Russia would have made, I think NATO would have fully expanded to Russian borders regardless.

I don't think you're wrong in your projections. In fact, I think that's the likelihood.

What makes you think NATO will expand into Russia's borders?

Based on the evidence. The aspirations of Ukraine joining NATO, alongside Georgia and Bosnia.

How is that evidence that NATO will expand into Russia? Presumably you're suggesting that NATO will expand into Russia by force, not by peace...?

I didn't say into Russia:

"However, whatever action Russia would have made, I think NATO would have fully expanded to Russian borders regardless."

My apologies! Misread.

No problem.

Do you think NATO was justified in expanding to the East?

If not, do you think they're justified now?

I agree with most of this, but tbh I can't ignore that the west has played it's knowing part in this, we're the ones that goaded Ukraine to aggro with their neighbour with promises of support that melt in the sun, again. I'm not saying for a second this justifies the invasion and deaths that will result, but we did kind of put Russia in a position where it felt threatened by NATO through it's neighbour, there was always going to be a reaction to that and it's not like they want more NATO forces and weapons on their borders, Ukraine is just a pawn in this

Yes, particularly for this reason.