What is the point of university?
I get that a degree would be useful for STEM subjects but I don't see the point of universities. I mean, surely it's better to get a job and start earning money, maybe go to university in a few years later rather than straight after a levels, or do an apprenticeship. I just think today's society is obsessed with universities. Unless the job you want requires a degree, I wouldn't advice getting one - unless you want to get into debt.
Some say a degree equals a higher level of understanding. Let's face it, that's nonsense.
So, please can someone tell me the purpose of university unless it's for STEM or Law?
Some say a degree equals a higher level of understanding. Let's face it, that's nonsense.
So, please can someone tell me the purpose of university unless it's for STEM or Law?
(edited 11 months ago)
Original post by Woostar
What if you want to teach, do research in something that isn’t stem, or not want to do an apprenticeship…
There is no “diplomat course”, I like the idea of either being a diplomat, or lawyer, so I’m doing politics and philosophy: and will either do a law conversion, or masters then foreign office. I don’t know which out of the two I want to do yet, so do the one which is most applicable to both: so in your mind, what should I do?
You seem very narrow minded on the issue
There is no “diplomat course”, I like the idea of either being a diplomat, or lawyer, so I’m doing politics and philosophy: and will either do a law conversion, or masters then foreign office. I don’t know which out of the two I want to do yet, so do the one which is most applicable to both: so in your mind, what should I do?
You seem very narrow minded on the issue
If you want to teach, then I guess you kind of have to go to university, but you never used to. Back in the good old days of the past, teachers didn't need a degree, but for some reason, now they do. Don't believe in it myself but you're right, teachers would need a degree. I can't decide your future for you but I would recommend that if you want to go down the law route, that a law degree would be your best bet. Of course you don't have to do that, you could always do the law conversion course. If you want to do a master's, it's worth bearing in mind that it will be costly. One of the reasons I'm against unis is because of the cost. It's a rip off to be honest. But if your heart's in it, then do what is best for you. You can actually become a lawyer without a degree, though, through the CILEX route, but that's not for everyone.
Original post by Woostar
Oh enlightened one: what are you doing? Are you one of your master race who are deserving of doing degrees? Or are you redpilled and beating the system in an apprenticeship?
Neither - I'm in paid employment. I wouldn't step foot in a university if you paid me all the money in the world. Plus, uni students are only interested in drinking and partying (not all of them, but a lot are). They also tend to be very left wing, which is another reason why unis are dreadful places.
Original post by Woostar
Yeah: If I wanted to do law: I would do law, but I also love the idea of being a diplomat: so I don’t know which one to do. If i did law, yes, I’d possibly be able to transfer over, but realistically, to get a higher level job now, you need a postgrad: so doing a masters is easier for the pol/Phil diplomat path, then again, I’m joining all the societies , working out placement years and internships so that I’m already somewhat experienced, and hopefully my firm could pay for the conversion (which gets me just as qualified as a law grad with a first degree in something I think I will do well in) or I pay myself, and end up in hopefully tax or law. My path is flexibility…. Also how tf is the idea of a teacher not having a degree a good idea, that would mean:
”hi class today we will be doing othello! I have never read the play nor do English, nor know what Shakespeare wrote, but I’m going to teach you all!”
”hi class today we will be doing othello! I have never read the play nor do English, nor know what Shakespeare wrote, but I’m going to teach you all!”
Well you never used to. For centuries in this country, teachers never needed to have degrees. New Labour that changed all that. The whole point of the old teacher training course was to train you up in that subject area, giving you relevant experience so you could utilise that knowledge. I would much rather have an entire country full of teachers who never went to university than one where they all did, simply because the government wanted everyone to get a degree. I don't see how having a degree makes you educated; what it does is fill your head with academic nonsense, just like school.
(edited 11 months ago)
In an ideal world universities wouldn't exist and almost all professions will be based from apprenticeships. These would be formed relative to the job market, so that we do not end up with gazillions of students coming out of education with no job. But we do not, so there you go.
Original post by JH2023
Well you never used to. For centuries in this country, teachers never needed to have degrees. New Labour that changed all that. The whole point of the old teacher training course was to train you up in that subject area, giving you relevant experience so you could utilise that knowledge. I would much rather have an entire country full of teachers who never went to university than one where they all did, simply because the government wanted everyone to get a degree. I don't see how having a degree makes you educated; what it does is fill your head with academic nonsense, just like school.
The point is the academic nonsense. It's for you to learn more about a subject that you enjoy. People going just for a degree and job are doing it wrong tbh, and I'm glad there are degree apprenticeships to counter this issue.
The argument and the point you’re making aren’t actually that clear.
I agree that compared to the past, the importance and value of a degree has gone down . As it’s been made more accessible, and more people graduate with degrees the market for them gets slightly saturated and it’s less of a differentiator. Also, schools do have a disproportionate focus on pushing students towards university, instead of encouraging alternative routes such as apprenticeships . Partly because of the prestige and reputation that comes with more students in uni and also funding implications with this.
Again, as more people get degrees in society, they become the norm and the value and recognition of the work to get them does get a bit ignored or forgotten or taken for granted. But a degree is still a sign of learning, challenging yourself and for first-gen students a real accomplishment for the whole family and change for the future.
Saying that, why would a degree is STEM be useful or more useful that a degree in non-STEM subject? (From what you said). Both are needed.
You’re right, working and earning from a younger age is actually more beneficial in a lot of ways than going into a degree straight from school. But neither works for everyone, and each person has to find what works best for them.
You’re 2nd point contradicts your argument because you’re questioning why anyone would go to uni, but then say better to work and then go uni after, so which is it?. You can absolutely go university at any time, not just when you’re 18/19 and actually getting life and work experience can help you out soo much more with your degree and beyond.
A lot of job descriptions do ask for degrees, but they’re not always needed for the actual job in reality. But it is a good tool to shortlist and exclude candidates for some employers, esp. if they get a lot of applications. Especially if there ar people without a degree.
University has a lot of benefits, outside of the actual degree and the skills you develop for their around critical thinking, writing and analysis, debate etc. University wise the benefits include growing personally and finding yourself by venturing on your own (inc if you live at home or on campus.) . Making friends and getting away from the only place you’ve known in your local area. Socially, making friends and working with people you essentially didn’t spend 5/7 years with from secondary school, sixth form/college .
There are some professions where a degree is a prerequisite and essential I.e. medicine to become a doctor or law for lawyer, but otherwise it’s a grand experience for you to be yourself and shine.
I feel like your frustrated but not sure if you just want us to actually make the decision for you or something about if you should go uni, or go elsewhere.
I agree that compared to the past, the importance and value of a degree has gone down . As it’s been made more accessible, and more people graduate with degrees the market for them gets slightly saturated and it’s less of a differentiator. Also, schools do have a disproportionate focus on pushing students towards university, instead of encouraging alternative routes such as apprenticeships . Partly because of the prestige and reputation that comes with more students in uni and also funding implications with this.
Again, as more people get degrees in society, they become the norm and the value and recognition of the work to get them does get a bit ignored or forgotten or taken for granted. But a degree is still a sign of learning, challenging yourself and for first-gen students a real accomplishment for the whole family and change for the future.
Saying that, why would a degree is STEM be useful or more useful that a degree in non-STEM subject? (From what you said). Both are needed.
You’re right, working and earning from a younger age is actually more beneficial in a lot of ways than going into a degree straight from school. But neither works for everyone, and each person has to find what works best for them.
You’re 2nd point contradicts your argument because you’re questioning why anyone would go to uni, but then say better to work and then go uni after, so which is it?. You can absolutely go university at any time, not just when you’re 18/19 and actually getting life and work experience can help you out soo much more with your degree and beyond.
A lot of job descriptions do ask for degrees, but they’re not always needed for the actual job in reality. But it is a good tool to shortlist and exclude candidates for some employers, esp. if they get a lot of applications. Especially if there ar people without a degree.
University has a lot of benefits, outside of the actual degree and the skills you develop for their around critical thinking, writing and analysis, debate etc. University wise the benefits include growing personally and finding yourself by venturing on your own (inc if you live at home or on campus.) . Making friends and getting away from the only place you’ve known in your local area. Socially, making friends and working with people you essentially didn’t spend 5/7 years with from secondary school, sixth form/college .
There are some professions where a degree is a prerequisite and essential I.e. medicine to become a doctor or law for lawyer, but otherwise it’s a grand experience for you to be yourself and shine.
I feel like your frustrated but not sure if you just want us to actually make the decision for you or something about if you should go uni, or go elsewhere.
Original post by souljav
The argument and the point you’re making aren’t actually that clear.
I agree that compared to the past, the importance and value of a degree has gone down . As it’s been made more accessible, and more people graduate with degrees the market for them gets slightly saturated and it’s less of a differentiator. Also, schools do have a disproportionate focus on pushing students towards university, instead of encouraging alternative routes such as apprenticeships . Partly because of the prestige and reputation that comes with more students in uni and also funding implications with this.
Again, as more people get degrees in society, they become the norm and the value and recognition of the work to get them does get a bit ignored or forgotten or taken for granted. But a degree is still a sign of learning, challenging yourself and for first-gen students a real accomplishment for the whole family and change for the future.
Saying that, why would a degree is STEM be useful or more useful that a degree in non-STEM subject? (From what you said). Both are needed.
You’re right, working and earning from a younger age is actually more beneficial in a lot of ways than going into a degree straight from school. But neither works for everyone, and each person has to find what works best for them.
You’re 2nd point contradicts your argument because you’re questioning why anyone would go to uni, but then say better to work and then go uni after, so which is it?. You can absolutely go university at any time, not just when you’re 18/19 and actually getting life and work experience can help you out soo much more with your degree and beyond.
A lot of job descriptions do ask for degrees, but they’re not always needed for the actual job in reality. But it is a good tool to shortlist and exclude candidates for some employers, esp. if they get a lot of applications. Especially if there ar people without a degree.
University has a lot of benefits, outside of the actual degree and the skills you develop for their around critical thinking, writing and analysis, debate etc. University wise the benefits include growing personally and finding yourself by venturing on your own (inc if you live at home or on campus.) . Making friends and getting away from the only place you’ve known in your local area. Socially, making friends and working with people you essentially didn’t spend 5/7 years with from secondary school, sixth form/college .
There are some professions where a degree is a prerequisite and essential I.e. medicine to become a doctor or law for lawyer, but otherwise it’s a grand experience for you to be yourself and shine.
I feel like your frustrated but not sure if you just want us to actually make the decision for you or something about if you should go uni, or go elsewhere.
I agree that compared to the past, the importance and value of a degree has gone down . As it’s been made more accessible, and more people graduate with degrees the market for them gets slightly saturated and it’s less of a differentiator. Also, schools do have a disproportionate focus on pushing students towards university, instead of encouraging alternative routes such as apprenticeships . Partly because of the prestige and reputation that comes with more students in uni and also funding implications with this.
Again, as more people get degrees in society, they become the norm and the value and recognition of the work to get them does get a bit ignored or forgotten or taken for granted. But a degree is still a sign of learning, challenging yourself and for first-gen students a real accomplishment for the whole family and change for the future.
Saying that, why would a degree is STEM be useful or more useful that a degree in non-STEM subject? (From what you said). Both are needed.
You’re right, working and earning from a younger age is actually more beneficial in a lot of ways than going into a degree straight from school. But neither works for everyone, and each person has to find what works best for them.
You’re 2nd point contradicts your argument because you’re questioning why anyone would go to uni, but then say better to work and then go uni after, so which is it?. You can absolutely go university at any time, not just when you’re 18/19 and actually getting life and work experience can help you out soo much more with your degree and beyond.
A lot of job descriptions do ask for degrees, but they’re not always needed for the actual job in reality. But it is a good tool to shortlist and exclude candidates for some employers, esp. if they get a lot of applications. Especially if there ar people without a degree.
University has a lot of benefits, outside of the actual degree and the skills you develop for their around critical thinking, writing and analysis, debate etc. University wise the benefits include growing personally and finding yourself by venturing on your own (inc if you live at home or on campus.) . Making friends and getting away from the only place you’ve known in your local area. Socially, making friends and working with people you essentially didn’t spend 5/7 years with from secondary school, sixth form/college .
There are some professions where a degree is a prerequisite and essential I.e. medicine to become a doctor or law for lawyer, but otherwise it’s a grand experience for you to be yourself and shine.
I feel like your frustrated but not sure if you just want us to actually make the decision for you or something about if you should go uni, or go elsewhere.
Firstly, the bit in bold. Employers want someone who has experience in working with customers. Most jobs are about business ethics, knowing how to deliver an effective customer service. What employers are doing is thinking that, because more people are now going to university, that having a degree makes you better or more able to perform that role. But in reality, that's not the case. An employer wants a candidate to stand out - you can't really do that if you have a degree like everyone else. I've met people with degrees, for a job that didn't require them, and they struggled massively in talking to customers. In fact, I don't even know why they went for the job, because they had such little work experience, the only reason they got the job was because they had a degree.
Yes, a degree can be useful of course, but if the degree doesn't link up to a specific job then I would see it as meaningless, because the whole point of a degree would be to gain the necessary knowledge needed in that particular sector. But then again, that can be achieved through life experience. I think going to university later in life is better than going straight after 6th form at 18 because at that age, they may not have a work mindset.
Lastly, yes you are right - I am a bit frustrated because I've never understood the need for degrees. My high school always told us we'd struggle in life without a degree but that hasn't been my experience. Schools do not give accurate career advice.
I'm aware there are advantages to universities outside of the degree but I can't say I'd ever want to go to one, not when I'm settled in a decent job.
(edited 11 months ago)
God forbid anyone would want to expand their horizons for any reason other than monetary reward...we truly are in the dark ages. I suppose we should all just become mindless worker drones, slaves to our capitalist overlords, without a single thought about it?
Original post by JH2023
Well you never used to. For centuries in this country, teachers never needed to have degrees. New Labour that changed all that. The whole point of the old teacher training course was to train you up in that subject area, giving you relevant experience so you could utilise that knowledge.
That's not true - you've needed a degree for Secondary teaching long before that - it's only Primary where you did teacher training.
That is not a bad question at all. Im currently doing a degree that is required for a job I've known i wanted to do since A-levels so thats my reasoning.
As for others some go to uni because it buys them time while being beneficial to their future, after all it’s difficult and rare to know what you want to do when you are 17/18.
University can be unnecessary for some jobs, and in that instance it may be over encouraged when compared to apprenticeships, but despite that its not a waste of time because it involves valuable skill building you can use when you go on to find a job.
Hope this helps
As for others some go to uni because it buys them time while being beneficial to their future, after all it’s difficult and rare to know what you want to do when you are 17/18.
University can be unnecessary for some jobs, and in that instance it may be over encouraged when compared to apprenticeships, but despite that its not a waste of time because it involves valuable skill building you can use when you go on to find a job.
Hope this helps
It all depends on your goals in life the importance of university is different to everyone to try and generalise it to everyone is lazy.
Like you said those that want to be doctors, lawyers, bankers, engineers and dentists University is extremely important if you have no plans on doing any of that I assume it doesn't hold much importance to you.
Like you said those that want to be doctors, lawyers, bankers, engineers and dentists University is extremely important if you have no plans on doing any of that I assume it doesn't hold much importance to you.
Original post by username6145026
Well you never used to. For centuries in this country, teachers never needed to have degrees. New Labour that changed all that. The whole point of the old teacher training course was to train you up in that subject area, giving you relevant experience so you could utilise that knowledge. I would much rather have an entire country full of teachers who never went to university than one where they all did, simply because the government wanted everyone to get a degree. I don't see how having a degree makes you educated; what it does is fill your head with academic nonsense, just like school.
What do you mean getting a degree doesn't mean you educated? That's the literal definition of educated isn't it, getting an education? And is a degree not a form of education??
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