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2.2 with dreams of working at a magic circle law firm

Hello,
I currently completed all the coursework and exams necessary for graduation and I’m awaiting my results. I study law and king’s college London. I dream to work for a magic circle but for now my goal is to get the best training contract possible. What should I do to improve my cv? Would a masters degree help? Im thinking of doing a masters degree in BPP for LLM SQE1&2 but my father suggests I pursue something like banking and finance (he said it will improve my chances more) which one should I go for? When should I start looking for jobs and what kind of jobs should I try finding? I guess the important question here given my title is: is it still possible for me to EVENTUALLY work for a magic circle law firm or am I doomed not to due to my 2.2? Your help is appreciated. Thank you.
I’d suggest you look at previous advice given on this forum on the same topic, including by myself. In short, there isn’t much you can do to hide that 2:2 - a masters or a job won’t get around it. I’ve not heard of anyone who qualified more recently (ie not a partner who joined the firm in 1998) into a MC firm with a 2:2. That’s not to say it’s impossible, but highly unlikely simply because there is such a massive pool of candidates with high 2:1s and 1sts, why would any firm reduce their standards much less the MC. If I were you, I’d aim lower. It’s still possible to enter the legal profession with a subpar degree, but it’ll be an uphill battle if your intent on it.
Reply 2
Original post by sublime-baths
I’d suggest you look at previous advice given on this forum on the same topic, including by myself. In short, there isn’t much you can do to hide that 2:2 - a masters or a job won’t get around it. I’ve not heard of anyone who qualified more recently (ie not a partner who joined the firm in 1998) into a MC firm with a 2:2. That’s not to say it’s impossible, but highly unlikely simply because there is such a massive pool of candidates with high 2:1s and 1sts, why would any firm reduce their standards much less the MC. If I were you, I’d aim lower. It’s still possible to enter the legal profession with a subpar degree, but it’ll be an uphill battle if you’re intent on it.


How about later? Do your grades always matter? Even after work experience?
Reply 3
It matters much less after work experience. My mate got a low 2i and now works for an MC firm, 16 years later. They care more abut his experience than his degree.
Original post by Modilli
How about later? Do your grades always matter? Even after work experience?

As gjd800 says, experience will eventually be more important. With a 2:2 it will be very unlikely that a MC firm will take you now or within the next few years as loads of applicants will have higher grades like someone on this thread said already. But once you've been in the law industry for quite a while and proven your worth you can always reapply. I'd say that about 5-10 years after your degree very few employers care about it because the work experience you will have had in that time is so incredibly different to academia and is much more reflective of how you'd operate in a new company.
Original post by Sorcerer of Old
As gjd800 says, experience will eventually be more important. With a 2:2 it will be very unlikely that a MC firm will take you now or within the next few years as loads of applicants will have higher grades like someone on this thread said already. But once you've been in the law industry for quite a while and proven your worth you can always reapply. I'd say that about 5-10 years after your degree very few employers care about it because the work experience you will have had in that time is so incredibly different to academia and is much more reflective of how you'd operate in a new company.


I would be reluctant to say that a MC firm will overlook your 2:2 after 5-10 years of work experience. What kind of work experience are we talking about? Realistically, you’ll need to be in a pretty damn good firm in the first place to build ‘good’ enough experience to even be considered - and that’s still not a guarantee with a 2:2. To get into a firm that could give you that good experience, a 2:2 would still hold you back a lot. So you’re in an endless cycle.
Reply 6
Original post by sublime-baths
I would be reluctant to say that a MC firm will overlook your 2:2 after 5-10 years of work experience. What kind of work experience are we talking about? Realistically, you’ll need to be in a pretty damn good firm in the first place to build ‘good’ enough experience to even be considered - and that’s still not a guarantee with a 2:2. To get into a firm that could give you that good experience, a 2:2 would still hold you back a lot. So you’re in an endless cycle.

Unless you start at a meh firm, build your resume, then go to a better one before applying to a MC form. No?
Original post by Modilli
Unless you start at a meh firm, build your resume, then go to a better one before applying to a MC form. No?


Yeah I mean it’s possible, but it would still be quite difficult for the reasons above. There’s also quite a lot of luck involved - you could be the best damn lawyer in the field but if the work isn’t there and the market is quiet, you won’t find firms eager to recruit.

I’m also not sure why the obsession with MC firms anyway. If it’s money you’re after, the US pay better. If it’s quality of work/training, a lot of the city firms offer a fairly high level of training and I wouldn’t say the MC will give you something others cannot.
Reply 8
What sublime has said above - there's nothing that's *particularly* special about working for MC firms as opposed to other large commercial firms in London, they have large teams that can run particularly large transactions or disputes and have some slightly more specialist expertise in certain areas. They pay higher than other large commercial firms, (and work you very hard to earn it) but there's not much more than that - and many of their trainees and lawyers leave at junior to mid levels because of the demanding work culture isn't worth the pay.

You can have an incredibly successful commercial legal career without going anywhere near the MC.

In the meanwhile your 2.2 is unfortunately a problem and a masters degree, whether in law or finance will do very little to improve that. I'd only recommend taking a masters if you want to do it purely for the intellectual curiosity if you have a genuine interest (and are happy to pay for it on that basis) - It's of little to no use for a legal career. You're best off improving your CV and wider legal experience with vac schemes, open days, paralegalling - whatever you can get your hands on.

What legal work experience do you have on your CV to date?
Reply 9
Original post by AMac86
What sublime has said above - there's nothing that's *particularly* special about working for MC firms as opposed to other large commercial firms in London, they have large teams that can run particularly large transactions or disputes and have some slightly more specialist expertise in certain areas. They pay higher than other large commercial firms, (and work you very hard to earn it) but there's not much more than that - and many of their trainees and lawyers leave at junior to mid levels because of the demanding work culture isn't worth the pay.

You can have an incredibly successful commercial legal career without going anywhere near the MC.

In the meanwhile your 2.2 is unfortunately a problem and a masters degree, whether in law or finance will do very little to improve that. I'd only recommend taking a masters if you want to do it purely for the intellectual curiosity if you have a genuine interest (and are happy to pay for it on that basis) - It's of little to no use for a legal career. You're best off improving your CV and wider legal experience with vac schemes, open days, paralegalling - whatever you can get your hands on.

What legal work experience do you have on your CV to date?

So far I don’t have much. I worked for a legal clinic and a law firm back in my home country Sudan. The latter was over summer vacation. Part of the reason I’m considering a masters is that I’d like to apply for the graduate visa. So I’m considering the LLM SQE1&2 that’s offered by BPP. Do you think that’s a good step? Also, where do you think I can get the best legal training and are my chances of landing a job as difficult as this thread makes it seem. Am I going to have a hard time with my 2.2?
Reply 10
I qualified under the older LPC & Training contract route so I'm a bit less familiar with the SQE (so plz other posters jump in to correct me as needed) - The SQE is the practical step of your legal education, you get a masters along the way but law firms won't be looking at that masters as upgrading or replacing your undegrad degree classification, the LLM part is really just a marketing gimmick by the course providers - the key bit of that course is passing the SQE exams themselves. In my day when I completed the law conversion and the LPC I got a "bonus" LLB from the College/University of law, which *no-one*(!) was ever interested in. Of course if that LLM element is key to secure your ongoing UK visa status then that's important and a clear reason to take the course - but it won't improve the academic side of your application.

You will need to do the SQE to qualify as a solicitor so its a clear next step in one sense, but it doesn't make you more marketable as a candidates because it's simply a course that all solicitors will be doing (if they don't do LPC or some of the other more niche routes for non-grads). If you aren't able to secure your 2 years training with a law firm it's a lot of money to spend, without any guarantee of that legal career at the end of it - if you have the money and can take that risk - then it's an option.

Have your careers dept at KCL offered any suggestions or guidance on next steps in law? Have have you applied for any work experience or vac schemes with law firms in London to date? - If you're successful in obtaining competitive work experience placements in law that's usually a good guide that you're in with a good chance of a training contract.

https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/law-firms/getting-a-training-contract/application-and-selection-criteria

The chambers link above shows how tough it is re the number of applicants to training contracts, obviously many candidates will be making 10-20 (or more) training contract applications so it's not quite as bad as the numbers suggest, but the point is this a very competitive graduate career to enter.

It's going to be tough with the 2.2, really tough. Not to say it's impossible, but you're going to be up against lots of your peers with 2.1s, some with firsts (but important to stress a 1st is *not* needed at all) and lots of solid work experience on the CV. For all but the super exceptional candidates who can afford to be picky it's less of where you can gain the "best" training" (which is really impossible to say anyway), and more "where can I obtain a commercial training contract". You need to obtain solid work experience in the UK, apply for vacation schemes, open days etc... any links through KCL careers support - apply apply apply. Can you paralegal at a commercial firm in London for a year or two before looking to start any further SQE studies? If you can - apply apply apply.
Reply 11
Original post by AMac86
I qualified under the older LPC & Training contract route so I'm a bit less familiar with the SQE (so plz other posters jump in to correct me as needed) - The SQE is the practical step of your legal education, you get a masters along the way but law firms won't be looking at that masters as upgrading or replacing your undegrad degree classification, the LLM part is really just a marketing gimmick by the course providers - the key bit of that course is passing the SQE exams themselves. In my day when I completed the law conversion and the LPC I got a "bonus" LLB from the College/University of law, which *no-one*(!) was ever interested in. Of course if that LLM element is key to secure your ongoing UK visa status then that's important and a clear reason to take the course - but it won't improve the academic side of your application.

You will need to do the SQE to qualify as a solicitor so its a clear next step in one sense, but it doesn't make you more marketable as a candidates because it's simply a course that all solicitors will be doing (if they don't do LPC or some of the other more niche routes for non-grads). If you aren't able to secure your 2 years training with a law firm it's a lot of money to spend, without any guarantee of that legal career at the end of it - if you have the money and can take that risk - then it's an option.

Have your careers dept at KCL offered any suggestions or guidance on next steps in law? Have have you applied for any work experience or vac schemes with law firms in London to date? - If you're successful in obtaining competitive work experience placements in law that's usually a good guide that you're in with a good chance of a training contract.

https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/law-firms/getting-a-training-contract/application-and-selection-criteria

The chambers link above shows how tough it is re the number of applicants to training contracts, obviously many candidates will be making 10-20 (or more) training contract applications so it's not quite as bad as the numbers suggest, but the point is this a very competitive graduate career to enter.

It's going to be tough with the 2.2, really tough. Not to say it's impossible, but you're going to be up against lots of your peers with 2.1s, some with firsts (but important to stress a 1st is *not* needed at all) and lots of solid work experience on the CV. For all but the super exceptional candidates who can afford to be picky it's less of where you can gain the "best" training" (which is really impossible to say anyway), and more "where can I obtain a commercial training contract". You need to obtain solid work experience in the UK, apply for vacation schemes, open days etc... any links through KCL careers support - apply apply apply. Can you paralegal at a commercial firm in London for a year or two before looking to start any further SQE studies? If you can - apply apply apply.


I would love to work before I do my masters but then there’s the visa issue. If I can apply for jobs online and get accepted into law work I would. If my chances of finding work in the UK are low then I’d rather not waste another year doing masters and more time doing the SQE. I’d just move somewhere else. But here’s something to consider: I had mitigating circumstances throughout university and I have even contacted my university regarding restarting but there’s a time issue there. I don’t think it’s worth it. These mitigating circumstances have largely worn off though so I think that’s an advantage. Anyways thanks for the links I’ll check them out.
Original post by Kb00
Hey!

I think that doing an LLM could certainly help to improve your academic record. If you decide to do an LLM, try to go for something that you have an interest in - if it is banking and finance, then yeah go for it. In terms of working for a Magic Circle Law firm, I think most of them have their grade requirements at 2:1. If you have mitigating circumstances, you could list them and still apply to MC law firms. However, I would have a look at those law firms that do not have academic requirements or accept 2:2 as a minimum. If you also want to do some research into those firms, i would recommend Commercial Law Academy's course on "law firm profiles and research", which includes profiles of 90+ law firms.


How many of these posts are you going to copy and paste? Surely the moderators should be picking up this course selling tactic…

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