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Will I get a TN to Kirkland & Ellis

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Original post by MsSpecter22
I see that makes sense, I wonder what’s the true reason for their merger


Money. Always money. Either excess of money (great offer, too good to decline), or lack of money (target firm is on the rocks and needs a bailout).
Original post by Stiffy Byng


Money. Always money. Either excess of money (great offer, too good to decline), or lack of money (target firm is on the rocks and needs a bailout).


That’s what I suspected, I was told by the lawyers there that it was because A&O was looking to expand with a US firm but I also thought that it must be something to do with money
Commercial law firms do few things that are not about money.
Original post by Stiffy Byng
Commercial law firms do few things that are not about money.


I mean that’s understandable
Original post by MsSpecter22
I mean that’s understandable


It is understandable. Every law firm, even activist firms such as Leigh Day and Bindmans, has to turn a profit. You cannot do good if you can't afford to keep the lights on. Also, despite what the public often thinks, many and perhaps most lawyers have a sense of justice, and many commercial lawyers give up time to work "pro bono publico" (working without charge on worthwhile causes). Large law firms usually have social responsibility programmes. When I had a mixed commercial and public law practice, my well-paid commercial work effectively subsidised my less well-paid public law work. These days I don't do much public law, but because my commercial law work often involves chasing down very bad people who have caused serious harm through fraud, corruption, and kleptocracy, I can satisfy my interest in justice whilst collecting a reasonable income.
Original post by MsSpecter22
That’s what I suspected, I was told by the lawyers there that it was because A&O was looking to expand with a US firm but I also thought that it must be something to do with money

Expansion into a wider market is aimed at increasing profits, so the two things go together. Carefully managed expansion can take a law firm to the next level. Unwise expansion can bring a law firm to the verge of (or to actual) collapse. Law firms are businesses,and they rise and fall according to the standard patterns of Capitalist enterprises.
Original post by poppy2022
As a law student, I really liked how you worded the last paragraph summarising what the law represents for you.


Cheers! I became interested in the Constitution, and in the ways that law serves a society, whilst studying Modern History at Oxford (looooong ago). Reading "Albion's Fatal Tree" in my final year blew my mind.

I think it regrettable that the study of legal history appears not to be much of a feature in some law degrees. I used to give my pupils in chambers a copy of Maitland's "The Forms Of Action At Common Law", and a copy of "The Plain English Guide to Legal Writing". I think that lawyers should master grammar, and seek to nurture a good written style. I deplore boilerplate legalese. I do not deplore Latin.

For many years, I thought of myself as someone who gave advice and performed advocacy in order to make a living, but not really much of a lawyer. The Oxford history degree was a useful training for the Bar. At a trial, the contending counsel may be like two rival historians, each seeking to persuade the Judge or jury that the interpretation of past events which each puts forward on behalf of his or her client is the correct version.

Eventually, I came to realise that I had become a lawyer. Yikes! Fake it 'til you make it? I found that, after faking it for a while, I ended up making it (sort of).

I say to aspirant lawyers that, in the course of a career, you can be several different types of lawyer. You don't have to pick one thing and do that thing for forty years. See how your interests develop, what opportunities political and economic changes bring, and where in the World you want to be.

Good luck with your studies, Poppy 2022. Do you plan to practise law?


https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/233277/albions-fatal-tree-by-douglas-hay/

https://assets.cambridge.org/97805210/91855/toc/9780521091855_toc.pdf
(edited 1 month ago)
Your replies have been very informative and helpful. What are some sets (both top sets and less competitive ones) in London would you suggest paying attention to regarding public law and anti-kleptocracy work?
i only know of blackstone and doughty street, and perhaps matrix and TGC
TIA!
Original post by Stiffy Byng
Cheers! I became interested in the Constitution, and in the ways that law serves a society, whilst studying Modern History at Oxford (looooong ago). Reading "Albion's Fatal Tree" in my final year blew my mind.
I think it regrettable that the study of legal history appears not to be much of a feature in some law degrees. I used to give my pupils in chambers a copy of Maitland's "The Forms Of Action At Common Law", and a copy of "The Plain English Guide to Legal Writing". I think that lawyers should master grammar, and seek to nurture a good written style. I deplore boilerplate legalese. I do not deplore Latin.
For many years, I thought of myself as someone who gave advice and performed advocacy in order to make a living, but not really much of a lawyer. The Oxford history degree was a useful training for the Bar. At a trial, the contending counsel may be like two rival historians, each seeking to persuade the Judge or jury that the interpretation of past events which each puts forward on behalf of his or her client is the correct version. Eventually, I came to realise that I had become a lawyer. Yikes!
Fake it 'til you make it? I found that, after faking it for a while, I ended up making it (sort of).
I say to aspirant lawyers that, in the course of a career, you can be several different types of lawyer. You don't have to pick one thing and do that thing for forty years. See how your interests develop, what opportunities political and economic changes bring, and where in the World you want to be.
Good luck with your studies, Poppy 2022. Do you plan to practise law?
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/233277/albions-fatal-tree-by-douglas-hay/
https://assets.cambridge.org/97805210/91855/toc/9780521091855_toc.pdf
for The Plain English Guide to Legal Writing, are you referring to the book by Garner?
Original post by Anonymous #2
Your replies have been very informative and helpful. What are some sets (both top sets and less competitive ones) in London would you suggest paying attention to regarding public law and anti-kleptocracy work?
i only know of blackstone and doughty street, and perhaps matrix and TGC
TIA!


For a mixture of commercial and public law -

Blackstone Chambers
Brick Court Chambers
11 KBW
4-5 Gray's Inn Square
39 Chambers

For more public law but less commercial law -

Matrix Chambers
Doughty Street
Cloisters

The route into anti-kleptocracy work is a solid grounding in general commercial and commercial Chancery litigation. You need to be well up on equity, company law, conflict of laws, and on procedural law as to injunctions, third party disclosures, and other remedies. Consider spending some time working in and becoming legally qualified in one or more of New York, Jersey, Guernsey, the Cayman Islands, and the BVI.

I would avoid TGC like the plague - read the Allison Bailey decision to see why, and see also the excellent blog "Legal Feminist" for further explanation.

Please take this kindly: good written English is important for barristers. It is no bad thing to get into the habit of always using correct grammar and punctuation. The second sentence of your post above is not a grammatical sentence.
(edited 1 month ago)
Original post by Anonymous #2
for The Plain English Guide to Legal Writing, are you referring to the book by Garner?


No. The Plain English Society published a short book on legal writing. I think that it may be out of print.
Try here

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=plain+english+society+legal+writing+uk&ia=web

Also here (US versions)

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=plain+english+society+legal+writing&ia=web


"Eschew the stationary passive." (Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch)

The way to write well is to read great prose stylists. Devour the canon of English literature (doing this is life-enhancing in any event). Read everything by George Orwell. Read The Economist and the Weekend FT.
Original post by Stiffy Byng
Cheers! I became interested in the Constitution, and in the ways that law serves a society, whilst studying Modern History at Oxford (looooong ago). Reading "Albion's Fatal Tree" in my final year blew my mind.
I think it regrettable that the study of legal history appears not to be much of a feature in some law degrees. I used to give my pupils in chambers a copy of Maitland's "The Forms Of Action At Common Law", and a copy of "The Plain English Guide to Legal Writing". I think that lawyers should master grammar, and seek to nurture a good written style. I deplore boilerplate legalese. I do not deplore Latin.
For many years, I thought of myself as someone who gave advice and performed advocacy in order to make a living, but not really much of a lawyer. The Oxford history degree was a useful training for the Bar. At a trial, the contending counsel may be like two rival historians, each seeking to persuade the Judge or jury that the interpretation of past events which each puts forward on behalf of his or her client is the correct version.
Eventually, I came to realise that I had become a lawyer. Yikes! Fake it 'til you make it? I found that, after faking it for a while, I ended up making it (sort of).
I say to aspirant lawyers that, in the course of a career, you can be several different types of lawyer. You don't have to pick one thing and do that thing for forty years. See how your interests develop, what opportunities political and economic changes bring, and where in the World you want to be.
Good luck with your studies, Poppy 2022. Do you plan to practise law?
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/233277/albions-fatal-tree-by-douglas-hay/
https://assets.cambridge.org/97805210/91855/toc/9780521091855_toc.pdf
Great books for my reading list!!! :biggrin: lol Many thanks Sir/Madam.
Original post by Stiffy Byng
Someone above mentioned ten to fourteen hour days. Those could sometimes be considered shortish days! If you are a litigator engaged in a trial or in injunction work, you can be working flat out, and the same goes for corporate lawyers engaged in a big transaction. In my early years at the commercial bar, I sometimes worked sixteen to eighteen hours each weekday, and for several hours most weekends. I partied the rest of the time. I didn't sleep much. I sometimes slept in my chambers.
These days I take things more slowly, but I am old and self-employed, and I don't have billing targets. I was for a while a partner in a medium sized international law firm, and that was a busy job.
Being a lawyer isn't all work. There are quiet spells, and sometimes working flat out can be fun, if you are engaged in an interesting project. The law is a sociable profession, and you get to work with clever, motivated, and interesting people who often have interests extending beyond the law. You have to look after your physical and mental health, and take regular breaks when you really do try to get away from work. Lawyers used to be (and some still are) big on intoxicants, both legal and otherwise; and mental distress, relationship breakdown, and burnout can be problems for busy practitioners. I am not saying don't try for a legal career, but do it with your eyes open as to the demands it makes.
So, there is not much difference in becoming a Chartered Accountant ACA (ICAEW) and Chartered Tax Adviser CTA (CIOT) and a Barrister or even a Solicitor? The long hours are to be expected I understand during the first few years. But a lot of the Tax specialists are Managers as soon as they've qualified. Also, the clients in the Big 4 are FTSE and Fortune 500. But I think a Law degree is a useful degree to have as a CEO too surely? :smile:
Original post by thegeek888
So, there is not much difference in becoming a Chartered Accountant ACA (ICAEW) and Chartered Tax Adviser CTA (CIOT) and a Barrister or even a Solicitor? The long hours are to be expected I understand during the first few years. But a lot of the Tax specialists are Managers as soon as they've qualified. Also, the clients in the Big 4 are FTSE and Fortune 500. But I think a Law degree is a useful degree to have as a CEO too surely? :smile:


There are significant differences between the qualification paths of and the work done by accountants, solicitors, and barristers.

You seem to chop and change a bit. Last year you were determined to go to Cambridge and were rubbishing the Oxford law course. This year you are fixated on St John's, Oxford.

It's not clear if you wish to be a tax lawyer, an accountant, or a CEO of some unspecified type of business. Perhaps you shall be all of those. Perhaps you shall be none of them.

Only hard work, realism, and maybe some luck will get you to such positions. Prayer won't do it, and nor will talking the talk about passing exams which you are years away from taking. I suggest that you focus on obtaining three good A level grades (you need no more than three), and on all of the other things which Oxford considers when assessing a candidate.

Confidence is a good thing, but a know it all attitude is the last thing which Oxford tutors are looking for. I reiterate that the question which the tutors ask themselves when they interview someone for a place at their college is as follows: "Is this candidate teachable?"

Everyone likes Tigger, at least for a few minutes, but being Tigger all of the time may not be the way ahead.
(edited 1 month ago)
Original post by Stiffy Byng
There are significant differences between the qualification paths of and the work done by accountants, solicitors, and barristers.
You seem to chop and change a bit. Last year you were determined to go to Cambridge and were rubbishing the Oxford law course. This year you are fixated on St John's, Oxford.
It's not clear if you wish to be a tax lawyer, an accountant, or a CEO of some unspecified type of business. Perhaps you shall be all of those. Perhaps you shall be none of them.
Only hard work, realism, and maybe some luck will get you to such positions. Prayer won't do it, and nor will talking the talk about passing exams which you are years away from taking. I suggest that you focus on obtaining three good A level grades (you need no more than three), and on all of the other things which Oxford considers when assessing a candidate.
Confidence is a good thing, but a know it all attitude is the last thing which Oxford tutors are looking for. I reiterate that the question which the tutors ask themselves when they interview someone for a place at their college is as follows: "Is this candidate teachable?"
Everyone likes Tigger, at least for a few minutes, but being Tigger all of the time may not be the way ahead.
Thanks for your insight as ever always useful.

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