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Reply 80
cchilstonev1
Medical admissions were sillier last year... I got four pre-interview rejections, applied again with the same reference, same UKCAT score, same AS grades repeated at A2 (AAAB) but a different personal statement and so far I have got 3 out of 4 interviews.
Weird.


Exactly the same happened to me (but pre-UKCAT) in 2003 and 2004 - except I even used the same PS with one line altered!
OriginofSymmetry
So, you suggest they interview a thousand more applicants?


i think instead of introducing another way of differentiating applicants (i.e the ukcat), they should stick with the original academic criteria (gcses, A2 predictions) and increase the requirements of those.
this, i feel, will act as a more reliable measure of applicant elimination and prevents Pearson Vue from minting money.
Isometrix
i think instead of introducing another way of differentiating applicants (i.e the ukcat), they should stick with the original academic criteria (gcses, A2 predictions) and increase the requirements of those.
this, i feel, will act as a more reliable measure of applicant elimination and prevents Pearson Vue from minting money.


They can hardly increase that though unless they use the new A* for A level
Reply 83
not really, just come up with some other method, that dosent gear, to harsly towards UKCAT.
Isometrix
i think instead of introducing another way of differentiating applicants (i.e the ukcat), they should stick with the original academic criteria (gcses, A2 predictions) and increase the requirements of those.
this, i feel, will act as a more reliable measure of applicant elimination and prevents Pearson Vue from minting money.



But then you would get less rounded applicants, and more of the studious type. Which was fine 100 years ago, but now we need socially-able Doctors.
Reply 85
Isometrix
i think instead of introducing another way of differentiating applicants (i.e the ukcat), they should stick with the original academic criteria (gcses, A2 predictions) and increase the requirements of those.
this, i feel, will act as a more reliable measure of applicant elimination and prevents Pearson Vue from minting money.


By raising academic requirements to mad levels like 3A*s or whatever, med schools would eliminate thousands of people who would cope no problem on a medical degree, and likely have better interpersonal skills than those who performed better.

Better grades dont equal better applicants. Rediculously booksmart doctors with no communication skills are no good to anyone.
OriginofSymmetry
But then you would get less rounded applicants, and more of the studious type. Which was fine 100 years ago, but now we need socially-able Doctors.


it wouldn't make a difference. if you have a ukcat cut off, there will be people who are more well rounded being rejected because they didn't meet the cut off. similarly, if the requirements were raised, there will again be well rounded applicants being rejected. it's just the same thing.
applicants can demonstrate their well roundedness in their PS anyway.
the key difference is that it will eliminate those who score highly on the ukcat without actually putting in any effort (i.e. by guessing). at least through higher requirements, those who do get interviews would have worked hard for something.

Tom4510
By raising academic requirements to mad levels like 3A*s or whatever, med schools would eliminate thousands of people who would cope no problem on a medical degree, and likely have better interpersonal skills than those who performed better.

Better grades dont equal better applicants. Rediculously booksmart doctors with no communication skills are no good to anyone.


better ukcat doesn't equal better applicants either.

i'm essentially just suggesting the system that we have right now, but without the ukcat. instead i think the focus should be more on the grades, PS/reference (where i feel useful information lies). i didn't mean that only grades should be used to select for interview...
Reply 87
Isometrix
better ukcat doesn't equal better applicants either.

i'm essentially just suggesting the system that we have right now, but without the ukcat. instead i think the focus should be more on the grades, PS/reference. i didn't mean that only grades should be used to select for interview...


Fair enough. I still dont think academic requirements need to go up. Not any higher than grade inflation dictates anyway.

The Personal statement should carry should carry the most weight if anything. I think Bristol have got it right in that way.
It would help if all medical schools, not just UCL, said that "a contrasting subject" is preferred at A level.

That would help to get more well-rounded doctors.
Reply 89
Toiletpaper8
It would help if all medical schools, not just UCL, said that "a contrasting subject" is preferred at A level.

That would help to get more well-rounded doctors.


True. But then all those who go through the checklist will just choose a contrasting subject instead. I think they're on the right track with the aptitude tests, they just need a fairer, more consistent test that actually examines the right qualities, which they're far off from achieving at the moment.
Tom4510
True. But then all those who go through the checklist will just choose a contrasting subject instead. I think they're on the right track with the aptitude tests, they just need a fairer, more consistent test that actually examines the right qualities, which they're far off from achieving at the moment.


Yea, but they have to do well in the contrasting subject - and that requires a different set of skills than doing well in sciences; often skills involving the structuring of a coherent line of argument (history) or general communication on paper (english) etc...
Reply 91
Toiletpaper8
Yea, but they have to do well in the contrasting subject - and that requires a different set of skills than doing well in sciences; often skills involving the structuring of a coherent line of argument (history) or general communication on paper (english) etc...


Id wonder what kind of difference that would make though. I took Psychology at AS, thinking it would be seen a contrasting subject, and i hated it. I really struggled. But then i just learnt one generic essay structure that applies to all essays and I got an A. A levels can worked around.
Isometrix
it wouldn't make a difference. if you have a ukcat cut off, there will be people who are more well rounded being rejected because they didn't meet the cut off. similarly, if the requirements were raised, there will again be well rounded applicants being rejected. it's just the same thing.
applicants can demonstrate their well roundedness in their PS anyway.
the key difference is that it will eliminate those who score highly on the ukcat without actually putting in any effort (i.e. by guessing). at least through higher requirements, those who do get interviews would have worked hard for something.



To be honest, without getting into the whole UKCAT argument, I don't think anybody scores highly on the test by guessing. Think of the probability of scoring highly after guessing on 4-answer multiple choice questions.

Besides, UKCAT scores natural cognitive ability. So the less studious types who are still smarter, will perform just as well as those studious types. There is no need for studying etc. ( I know I only did an hours prep. for it. )

Anyway, the requirements are high enough. As far as Scottish applicants go, they are too high for some English Universities when you compare A-levels.
Toiletpaper8
It would help if all medical schools, not just UCL, said that "a contrasting subject" is preferred at A level.

That would help to get more well-rounded doctors.



Even though they don't say it, all of them think it. Both of the interviews I have attended have commented on the fact I'm doing Advanced Higher Music and not Maths like everybody else.


...The fact I have dropped it is besides the point. :p:
Tom4510
Id wonder what kind of difference that would make though. I took Psychology at AS, thinking it would be seen a contrasting subject, and i hated it. I really struggled. But then i just learnt one generic essay structure that applies to all essays and I got an A. A levels can worked around.


Maybe that's just psychology - I dunno. After all, psychology is an applied "science".

I do history A-level (great subject), and the essays are very adaptable.

For me, it makes a massive difference though... being able to be more individual and to argue a case coherently and fluently backed up with evidence. Analysing historiography etc...
Reply 95
Toiletpaper8
Maybe that's just psychology - I dunno. After all, psychology is an applied "science".

I do history A-level (great subject), and the essays are very adaptable.

For me, it makes a massive difference though... being able to be more individual and to argue a case coherently and fluently backed up with evidence. Analysing historiography etc...


Yeah id imagine History is much better subject in that regard. Psych was just,

- Outline study: check.
- List positive criticisms: check
- List negative criticisms: check
- List improvements: check.

See i never had a problem listing the problems, but i always went on to develop these, and not leave enough time to go over EVERY single one. Just the way its examined is dreadful. And thats why i struggled. Its like the simple maths questions. You go wrong because you're trying to find some ingenius (wrong) method of solving it.
Reply 96
OriginofSymmetry
Even though they don't say it, all of them think it. Both of the interviews I have attended have commented on the fact I'm doing Advanced Higher Music and not Maths like everybody else.


...The fact I have dropped it is besides the point. :p:


Lol same here...except i'm doing AH english..and I haven't dropped it O_o
YoSuis
Lol same here...except i'm doing AH english..and I haven't dropped it O_o



I had the choice between music and english, should've picked English. Oh well, now I have another afternoon off a week. Shame! :p:
My understanding of the UKCAT was that it was a measure to see wether you got fantastic grades from rote learning, and heavily focusing on the syllabuses to ensure A grades, or if you had the raw intelligence as well.

As such I would have to say that I can sympathize with the use of the UKCAT.

Those of you who disagree, where do you stand on the 11+ which up until very recently was virtually identical to the UKCAT.
Reply 99
YoSuis
Lol same here...except i'm doing AH english..and I haven't dropped it O_o


Sorry to be annoying, but i was wondering how you got an unconditional offer whilst still studying?

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