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Religious People: Do you believe atheists will go to hell?
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Lol I find it highly ironic that so many atheists I have met and users I have encountered on TSR seem so preoccupied with what might happen to them after death. If you're absolutely sure that no God exists and death is essentially the end, why are you so worried about potentially being sent to Hell and why do you try to justify the reasons you shouldn't be condemed to eternal suffering? I don't mean to attack atheists but it just seems very ironic to me that you are even contemplating life after death.
lollapalooza
why do you try to justify the reasons you shouldn't be condemed to eternal suffering? I
It's all about trying to highlight to people why it seems that kinda silly that a kind and loving god would just banish people to hell for simply not believing in him, even whilst they lived their life in a decent fashion.
lollapalooza
Lol I find it highly ironic that so many atheists I have met and users I have encountered on TSR seem so preoccupied with what might happen to them after death. If you're absolutely sure that no God exists and death is essentially the end, why are you so worried about potentially being sent to Hell and why do you try to justify the reasons you shouldn't be condemed to eternal suffering? I don't mean to attack atheists but it just seems very ironic to me that you are even contemplating life after death.
1. I don't think most of them are preoccupied, they just like discussing religion on this site. It's not ironic to discuss God and theology if you're an atheist.
2. I don't think most of them are absolutely certain. I really don't think anything happens after death. I'm almost sure. But there's something in the back of my mind which keeps telling me it could be true and I could go to Hell, and if it is, there's nothing I can do about it.
moreiniho
It's all about trying to highlight to people why it seems that kinda silly that a kind and loving god would just banish people to hell for simply not believing in him, even whilst they lived their life in a decent fashion.
All religious texts heavily emphasise the importance of faith and trust in God though, so if you have spent your whole life consistently denouncing and rejecting God then why should he welcome you into his Heaven when your life is over? Obviously I've got no idea that this will actually happen but I'm just trying to explain the reasoning why you may not 'welcomed' so to speak.
Well, for one, put aside the ridiculous images of Hell as fire and brimstone. "Hell" is only really a term for being alienated from God's love. Which doesn't necessarily have to be torment and eternal pain: it could mean simply separation (which is what you have at the moment any way) or death (as opposed to eternal life).
Now, no Christian can give a proper answer to this question: it is not for them to presuppose God's judgement or even the criteria He would judge by. You'll have to wait and see. There are, of course, theories - which range from universal reconciliation of all humans with God to ideas about predestination and the infallibility of the pre-chosen Elect.
Now, no Christian can give a proper answer to this question: it is not for them to presuppose God's judgement or even the criteria He would judge by. You'll have to wait and see. There are, of course, theories - which range from universal reconciliation of all humans with God to ideas about predestination and the infallibility of the pre-chosen Elect.
khalaf
But please explain to me why he would send you to heaven when the only thing he told you to do, believe in him and be obedient to him, wasn't done?? Why would you expect that he will let you go to heaven if you don't even give him the benefit of the doubt that he is, in fact, your creator?
couldn't have said it better
Prokaryotic_crap
couldn't have said it better
If God existed and his entrance-to-heaven-scheme operated on a premise of mere obedience, rather than living your life, regardless of your religious views, in a good, well spirited and kind fashion, I would rather go to hell than into his 'eternal paradise'.
nolongerhearthemusic
1. I don't think most of them are preoccupied, they just like discussing religion on this site. It's not ironic to discuss God and theology if you're an atheist.
2. I don't think most of them are absolutely certain. I really don't think anything happens after death. I'm almost sure. But there's something in the back of my mind which keeps telling me it could be true and I could go to Hell, and if it is, there's nothing I can do about it.
2. I don't think most of them are absolutely certain. I really don't think anything happens after death. I'm almost sure. But there's something in the back of my mind which keeps telling me it could be true and I could go to Hell, and if it is, there's nothing I can do about it.
I thought atheism was about complete disbelief in God and therefore also in the notion of an afterlife, so I don't understand why the religious concept of Hell is such a daunting prospect for people who supposedly don't even believe in it's existence anyway..
If you're having niggling doubts then perhaps you are agnostic? I believe that even if you don't don't have faith but at the end of your life repent (as the saying goes 'there is no such thing as an atheist on a death bed' then you may gain access to Heaven, or perhaps you have to be reborn or something so you get another chance, but of course this is just speculation, noone knows for sure!
I would rather not go to heaven I think. God would just annoy me too much. I would ask if him this was heaven. He would ask if I believed it was. I'd ask if he could just tell me and save us both a lot of time and frustration, it would continue.
Plus there would be bloody Christians everywhere.
[just kidding, please don't hurt me with your rep. Also God, if you're reading this, I was only kidding and would love to come to heaven kthx]
Plus there would be bloody Christians everywhere.
[just kidding, please don't hurt me with your rep. Also God, if you're reading this, I was only kidding and would love to come to heaven kthx]
lollapalooza
I thought atheism was about complete disbelief in God and therefore also in the notion of an afterlife, so I don't understand why the religious concept of Hell is such a daunting prospect for people who supposedly don't even believe in it's existence anyway..
It is a complete disbelief in God, and I do completely disbelieve. Believing is an active thing to do, and I don't do it at all and I never have. But I'm aware that a very large amount of people completely and 100% believe in Hell and eternal punishment for disbelievers, so it's difficult not to wonder what it would be like if it was true. Everyone's going to think 'what if I'm wrong?' every now and then, and it just so happens that the answer to that for me is 'after I die, I will suffer forever and ever'. It's not a nice thought.
If you're having niggling doubts then perhaps you are agnostic? I believe that even if you don't don't have faith but at the end of your life repent (as the saying goes 'there is no such thing as an atheist on a death bed' then you may gain access to Heaven, or perhaps you have to be reborn or something so you get another chance, but of course this is just speculation, noone knows for sure!
I don't think it would be possible to make me believe, unless I was shown some proof. Believing or being agnostic in a kind of Pascal's Wager way so that I could have a chance at Heaven wouldn't work at all.
Oladz
Very interesting point, does God want people to believe, or does he want to force them to believe?
He didn't want to force us to believe because he is not an 'authoritarian' God so instead he gave us free will. This link is quite interesting and explains it well, if you wish to know more about it..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_of_salvation (Read 'The Plan' and 'Agency and Theodicy').
I asked a religious friend this question. She said that nobody can predict or anticipate who will or wont go to Hell. An agnostic who does good may be better off in God's eyes than an obedient follower who's a horrible person.
I consider myself religious (Jewish) and I think that when we die the exact same thing happens to everyone. Our physical bodies rot and decompose... Simple.
I don't believe in the concept of Heavan and Hell, when we die, the things we do in our life is what determines our afterlife. The things we do affect others, once we're gone. E.g. Our children, Grandchildren, The opinions our friends have on us, Our impact on the world etc.
From what I know about Judaism, In the Torah there is no mention of Heavan or Hell and what happens after we die is vague at most. However if someone wants to correct me, I'm listening
I don't believe in the concept of Heavan and Hell, when we die, the things we do in our life is what determines our afterlife. The things we do affect others, once we're gone. E.g. Our children, Grandchildren, The opinions our friends have on us, Our impact on the world etc.
From what I know about Judaism, In the Torah there is no mention of Heavan or Hell and what happens after we die is vague at most. However if someone wants to correct me, I'm listening
nolongerhearthemusic
It is a complete disbelief in God, and I do completely disbelieve. Believing is an active thing to do, and I don't do it at all and I never have. But I'm aware that a very large amount of people completely and 100% believe in Hell and eternal punishment for disbelievers, so it's difficult not to wonder what it would be like if it was true. Everyone's going to think 'what if I'm wrong?' every now and then, and it just so happens that the answer to that for me is 'after I die, I will suffer forever and ever'. It's not a nice thought.
I don't think it would be possible to make me believe, unless I was shown some proof. Believing or being agnostic in a kind of Pascal's Wager way so that I could have a chance at Heaven wouldn't work at all.
I don't think it would be possible to make me believe, unless I was shown some proof. Believing or being agnostic in a kind of Pascal's Wager way so that I could have a chance at Heaven wouldn't work at all.
Fair enough, if you feel like you really can't have faith then you shouldn't be forced to or feel pressurised to. I'm just curious as to what sort of proof you would need to start believing though and whether religious miracles (which science is simply not capable of explaining) constitute as proof for you? For example, what do you make of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_sun
lollapalooza
Fair enough, if you feel like you really can't have faith then you shouldn't be forced to or feel pressurised to. I'm just curious as to what sort of proof you would need to start believing though and whether religious miracles (which science is simply not capable of explaining) constitute as proof for you? For example, what do you make of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_sun
Proof for me would be something which couldn't be explained in any other way. If I saw a faith healer cause someone to re-grow a limb, or rise from the dead and then God personally came down and told me it was Him, I would have a reason to believe.. But as it is, things like that don't happen, the only kind of faith healing that happens are things which could be psychosomatic or could have healed on their own. The fact is, that the logical part of me doesn't let me just believe in things, because I don't care how things appear or how much I want to believe something, I only care whether something is actually true. I see no reason to believe in God as I was never told that he existed by my parents, and I see tons of reasons to believe that the religions that exist today were created my humans. Everything is as you would expect it to be if it had been created by humans, so that seems the most logical thing to believe.
As for the Miracle of the Sun, I wasn't there. I find it more logical to think those people were deluded, or lying, or seeing something else entirely than to believe that it was really a 'miracle' and that natural laws were suspended for a minute just to produce that.
I recently began to read the quran after a free copy was given to me at my university. It was a discover Islam week held by their society and i got into a debate with a girl who was running it. In the past i've also read a fair bit of the bible. One thing i've noticed about both of the books is that they are written in a very persuasive manner, generally persuasion through threats. If you actually analyse the beginning parts of the quran in terms of how it is written, it is like:
god is great,
god is merciful,
god loves you
but only if you believe
unbelievers will inherit the fire
unbelievers have been given proof but they don't believe
unbelievers are foolish
god knows if you don't believe.
god is great
god is merciful
unbelievers will burn in the fire
god has shown you the path
accept his path
those who don't accept will inherit the fire.
It's a constant repetition of glorifying god and giving promises of his love if you believe, and then saying how powerful he is and threatening you if you don't believe.
If i was going to invent a religious text with the purpose of convincing the most people to believe it, this is the system i'd use. Some people are very clever, i find it hard to understand why it is so extreme to religious people to suggest that a human being may have invented the texts to cause people to believe and become subserviant to them as the expert of the text or bringer of this holy message.
What's even more funny is that you ask say a christian what they think of the quran or vice versa, and each will answer that their muslim or christian counterpart has been misled, effectively admitting that it's possible for millions to believe a document as divine, which is simply a construct of man. A christian must believe that the quran, the parts which aren't the same as the bible, are fraudulent, so given that, they know it's possible to be duped, yet they're so arrogant that they are unable to concieve that their book may also be a human construct with no influence of god at all.
Another funny note is that in the quran there is a line which says something along the lines of, "the christians and jews say they are the only ones going to heaven, ask them how do they know? Have they the knowledge of god". Apparantly there is no irony there.
god is great,
god is merciful,
god loves you
but only if you believe
unbelievers will inherit the fire
unbelievers have been given proof but they don't believe
unbelievers are foolish
god knows if you don't believe.
god is great
god is merciful
unbelievers will burn in the fire
god has shown you the path
accept his path
those who don't accept will inherit the fire.
It's a constant repetition of glorifying god and giving promises of his love if you believe, and then saying how powerful he is and threatening you if you don't believe.
If i was going to invent a religious text with the purpose of convincing the most people to believe it, this is the system i'd use. Some people are very clever, i find it hard to understand why it is so extreme to religious people to suggest that a human being may have invented the texts to cause people to believe and become subserviant to them as the expert of the text or bringer of this holy message.
What's even more funny is that you ask say a christian what they think of the quran or vice versa, and each will answer that their muslim or christian counterpart has been misled, effectively admitting that it's possible for millions to believe a document as divine, which is simply a construct of man. A christian must believe that the quran, the parts which aren't the same as the bible, are fraudulent, so given that, they know it's possible to be duped, yet they're so arrogant that they are unable to concieve that their book may also be a human construct with no influence of god at all.
Another funny note is that in the quran there is a line which says something along the lines of, "the christians and jews say they are the only ones going to heaven, ask them how do they know? Have they the knowledge of god". Apparantly there is no irony there.
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