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Davethedavedave
I am a mature student (26) and I am looking at attending university F/T in September 2010 and would like study Engineering.
I am most keen to do Civil/Structural Engineering however while I have AAA in Politics, History and Business Studies I don't have maths.
So I would like to ask anyone that has graduated with a Engineering degree what my chances are of getting on a Civil Engineering course without Maths. I know my ability at Maths is at least as good as A level Maths, however I don't have the qualification to show it. So is there any other way I could demonstrate to universities that I would be fine without A level maths?
If none of the above works out and I cant do Civil Engineering without maths, what other types of Engineering based subjects would be available to me without maths?
Any advice, not matter how honest or harsh would be, by me very much appreciated.
I am most keen to do Civil/Structural Engineering however while I have AAA in Politics, History and Business Studies I don't have maths.
So I would like to ask anyone that has graduated with a Engineering degree what my chances are of getting on a Civil Engineering course without Maths. I know my ability at Maths is at least as good as A level Maths, however I don't have the qualification to show it. So is there any other way I could demonstrate to universities that I would be fine without A level maths?
If none of the above works out and I cant do Civil Engineering without maths, what other types of Engineering based subjects would be available to me without maths?
Any advice, not matter how honest or harsh would be, by me very much appreciated.
How do you know that your level of maths is as good as A-level standard? What is your current job?
Without an A-level in maths, you could do a 'foundation year'.
If you have work experience for a few years where maths applications were necessary to do the job then that would prove you are at A level maths standard. However, if you just know it then the leading universities for Engineering wont be able to accept you directly. You can always give foundation year a try if thats an option otherwise you will have to go to one of the crappy universities. After all Maths and Physics are a must at most places and you have neither of them. Unless you have some good work experience where you have used a good portion of maths and physics, I doubt many universities will give you a chance without foundation year. I'd advice you to go to an open day or two during the summer and ask the people there what do the think about your qualifications. best of luck
erm, to the other question, well all engineering disciplines require maths and most require physics for A level applications so it would be the same. but after all you are mature student with much more? job experience and that will be taken into account when processing the application.
erm, to the other question, well all engineering disciplines require maths and most require physics for A level applications so it would be the same. but after all you are mature student with much more? job experience and that will be taken into account when processing the application.
I'd go speak to the course tutors or go to some open days.
I don't have A-levels and was forced to start on a HND, then jump on to the second year of the degree.
I had a few years of work experience in engineering which helped. If your maths is up to the standard you say, you'll find the work ok.
And i don't know of any engineering subject that needs no mathematical skills.
I don't have A-levels and was forced to start on a HND, then jump on to the second year of the degree.
I had a few years of work experience in engineering which helped. If your maths is up to the standard you say, you'll find the work ok.
And i don't know of any engineering subject that needs no mathematical skills.
You really don't want to go into any reputable engineering course without maths. I have a friend who did this with just an AS in maths - so that's no differential eqns, reasonable trig etc. He failed his first year. Not to scare you off but you will have a serious uphill that you need to tackle at the start.
Any course that will accept you with those qualifications isn't worth the effort. Do A-Level Maths and Physics and then you can go to a top university easily, you'd be selling yourself short otherwise.
You really don't want to go into any reputable engineering course without maths. I have a friend who did this with just an AS in maths - so that's no differential eqns, reasonable trig etc. He failed his first year. Not to scare you off but you will have a serious uphill that you need to tackle at the start.
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Having just read this post, whiplash is spot on. Engineering is heavily mathematical. Arguably, a top Engineering degree is more difficult than a medical degree or top law degree. The idea that you can study Eng without Maths and Physics is absurd. Unfortunately, until the public realises that the Engineer is no less valuable than the Doctor, I'm afraid people will still think of the subject as fixing boilers.
For example,
Manchester University: Ranked 22nd For Civil Engineering
Civil Engineering (3 Years) [BEng] - Typical A level offer: Grades ABB.
Civil and Structural Engineering (4 Years) [MEng] - Typical A level offer: Grades AAB.
Both say:
This should include Mathematics (must include applied element - if not Physics must be offered) and a science (Physics preferred but Chemistry, Biology or Engineering Science also acceptable). Two AS-levels of equivalent grade are acceptable in place of a third A-level. General Studies is not accepted.
Another Example, if you go to 26th Place Birmingham:
Civil Engineering BEng/MEng
Entry requirements
Number of A levels required: 3
Typical offers: AAA to AAB at A level
Required subjects and grades: A level Mathematics; GCSE Physics (or Double Science) grade C if not offered at A or AS level
General Studies and Critical Thinking: not accepted, but a good performance in one of these may be taken into account if you fail to meet the conditions of the offer
Manchester University: Ranked 22nd For Civil Engineering
Civil Engineering (3 Years) [BEng] - Typical A level offer: Grades ABB.
Civil and Structural Engineering (4 Years) [MEng] - Typical A level offer: Grades AAB.
Both say:
This should include Mathematics (must include applied element - if not Physics must be offered) and a science (Physics preferred but Chemistry, Biology or Engineering Science also acceptable). Two AS-levels of equivalent grade are acceptable in place of a third A-level. General Studies is not accepted.
Another Example, if you go to 26th Place Birmingham:
Civil Engineering BEng/MEng
Entry requirements
Number of A levels required: 3
Typical offers: AAA to AAB at A level
Required subjects and grades: A level Mathematics; GCSE Physics (or Double Science) grade C if not offered at A or AS level
General Studies and Critical Thinking: not accepted, but a good performance in one of these may be taken into account if you fail to meet the conditions of the offer
Davethedavedave
Thank you for your feedback to everyone that has posted.
I will take a the next year to do another A level in Maths so I don't have to do a foundation year.
Hopefully with 4 good A levels including maths I can go anywhere I want to.
I will take a the next year to do another A level in Maths so I don't have to do a foundation year.
Hopefully with 4 good A levels including maths I can go anywhere I want to.
First of all, dont get me wrong but you wont have 4 great a levels but just 1 - Maths. the others are still more or less irrelevant to the degree and wont help a lot really. You will have to use your work experience and such as a primary argument for the application and these maths will not guarantee you a lot.
Trust me, Foundation year is much better than taking A levels Maths. First of all, foundation year is for all those who dont have really relevant qualifications but have the desire to do engineering (which is basically your case) so admission will not really be that hard considering the fact that you have some A levels (although irrelevant to engineering) and have some work experience as a mature student. You will study the Maths and Physics that you need, but also get some knowledge and experience in areas like team projects, labs, and presentations. Foundation year is well worth if you manage to get on one of the top universities' lists.
To the other guys, I had below basic knowledge of maths (simply because Maths in my country was crap last two years when you studied everything during A levels.. and we didnt study at all). I had to learn everything from the beginning but it isnt that much pain if you have the desire. I am near the end of my first year and I feel like I caught up with the others finally so it isnt impossible (considering how lazy I am...getting a C was not that bad when the average was low B I believe). And my university is top 5 for engineering
edit:
a copy-paste of the loughborough website for the foundation year - The Foundation programme was originally designed for students who wish to embark upon a challenging career in science, engineering or technology, but whose choice of subject at A Level (or equivalent) is not usually considered appropriate for direct entry to degree programmes in these disciplines. Many who join us have good A levels, but not in Maths, or not in Physics, or occasionally not in any science subject.
If you get 55% in the foundation year you can transfer to any engineering degree. Easy stuff, and I know a couple of bright guys on my course who were on the foundation year last year and they loved it! I belleive it is very similar for other universities, too.
best of luck
Okay.
With reference to the foundation study year, would I be better of.........
A) Doing it as an individual study year separate from any other qualification, then going on to another university to do a normal BEng/MEng?
B) Doing it a part of a longer BEng/MEng at the same university?
Also, will the fact that I have done a foundation year have a impact on my job prospects with future employers?
With reference to the foundation study year, would I be better of.........
A) Doing it as an individual study year separate from any other qualification, then going on to another university to do a normal BEng/MEng?
B) Doing it a part of a longer BEng/MEng at the same university?
Also, will the fact that I have done a foundation year have a impact on my job prospects with future employers?
It certainly doesnt have any impact on future prospects. Well, it really depends on the foundation that you do. If you do foundation at, say, Imperial, I doubt you would like to change universities, if you understand what I mean. But if you, say, do a foundation at Salford and get 85% overall, you can apply to some more reputable universities. Id advice you to do it at a good university, where the preparation for the course will be at high quality and then you can easily transfer to their engineering programmes. Option B will be much easier thpugh if you manage to get on a good foundation programme.
alexyfoot
It certainly doesnt have any impact on future prospects. Well, it really depends on the foundation that you do. If you do foundation at, say, Imperial, I doubt you would like to change universities, if you understand what I mean. But if you, say, do a foundation at Salford and get 85% overall, you can apply to some more reputable universities. Id advice you to do it at a good university, where the preparation for the course will be at high quality and then you can easily transfer to their engineering programmes. Option B will be much easier thpugh if you manage to get on a good foundation programme.
Imperial doesn't offer engineering foundation programmes of any sort. Employers do not look at where you did your foundation year. They only look at where you went to do your BEng or MEng. If you're thinking of going into Civil Engineering, OP, then tbh it wouldn't really matter at all which uni you graduated from.. unless you went to Oxbridge or Imperial. There is such a low demand for Civil Engineers, you're virtually secured a job providing you get a 2.1 or better. Ex-polys are particularly good at teaching vocational courses such as engineering, so between engineering employers there's little discrimination against ex-poly graduates.
No matter how good your maths is, without a qualification to prove it and lacking physics I think you'll probably have a difficult time getting entry to most engineering universities. I agree with pretty much everything on this thread, the only thing I would add is that the foundation year can be costly, so potentially, learning A-Level Maths and some Physics on your own / at school and finding a few weeks work experience might be the more favourable option.
Do an access course. All the top unis apart from imperial take it and if you did a year long maths a level along side it (which you could easily fit in as an evening course) you'd have a shot at oxbridge if you wanted it. Unis love mature students from access courses.
I think a foundation year would be a waste of time. You just need to contact the unis directly and ask if you can take some sort of external assessment - provided by them, to prove that you have a decent mathematical ability. Otherwise, it would be very hard to get in. How can you be certain that you can get an A in a-level maths?
All Imperial Engineering degrees require A* in maths, A in physics and A in something else.
The maths dept hold a test each summer to guage prospective maths-transferees (from other unis wishing to join), maybe you could ask whether you could sit this too?
The maths dept hold a test each summer to guage prospective maths-transferees (from other unis wishing to join), maybe you could ask whether you could sit this too?
Hi Dave,
I don't think I can say much more than what's already been said here, but I wanted to reply because I'm in an almost identical position to you right now.
I'm 26 and over the last year have been doing an Electronic Engineering foundation year at Kent university. Like you, I didn't study maths or physics at A-Level, and a mix of this and having been out of education for a few years made the learning curve this year seem quite steep at times.
Whether or not you want to take a foundation year or do the maths and physics A-Levels really comes down to what university you wish to go to for your degree. While I am intending to go to a different university this year to start my BEng, some top-end universities (such as Imperial) will not accept a foundation year as a valid entry qualification, and some like UCL tend only to accept foundation year students from a specific list of universities (unfortunately Kent is not on that list, though I'm going to try my best to convince them to take me anyway!).
Something else to bear in mind is the expense, I don't know how much it will cost to take the A-Levels but my foundation year cost less than a regular year on the degree course, at about £1250.
Best of luck whichever route you choose. Most universities are understanding and give some leniency on qualifications and grades when you're entering as a mature student, so don't get put off!
I don't think I can say much more than what's already been said here, but I wanted to reply because I'm in an almost identical position to you right now.
I'm 26 and over the last year have been doing an Electronic Engineering foundation year at Kent university. Like you, I didn't study maths or physics at A-Level, and a mix of this and having been out of education for a few years made the learning curve this year seem quite steep at times.
Whether or not you want to take a foundation year or do the maths and physics A-Levels really comes down to what university you wish to go to for your degree. While I am intending to go to a different university this year to start my BEng, some top-end universities (such as Imperial) will not accept a foundation year as a valid entry qualification, and some like UCL tend only to accept foundation year students from a specific list of universities (unfortunately Kent is not on that list, though I'm going to try my best to convince them to take me anyway!).
Something else to bear in mind is the expense, I don't know how much it will cost to take the A-Levels but my foundation year cost less than a regular year on the degree course, at about £1250.
Best of luck whichever route you choose. Most universities are understanding and give some leniency on qualifications and grades when you're entering as a mature student, so don't get put off!
anyone got any links for foundation courses to eng?
Related discussions
- Engineering without a level maths/physics
- What’s the best option??
- Further Margs
- Engineering
- becoming a civil engineer after a-level product design?
- Applying to civil engineering without physics
- Engineering A levels vs Btec
- University requirements
- Software engineering
- Aerospace engineering (foundation year)?
- Engineering/ Computer Science
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- UCL civil engineering
- Could I still be a good applicant for a maths degree?
- Software engineering
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- regretting a level choices?
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