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Muslims, how bad is having a sip of wine?

Profesh

Are you sure she wasn't alluding to the potential squandered by settling for a mouth-breathing, remedial cretin such as yourself?

(Too slow, ****wit.)

burn! pos repz for you profesh

Reply 21

D00

13

Funny how there's still some people following a piece of ancient text on how to live their own life. It's very funny.

Reply 22

Tantamount

CombineHarvester

You may still enter heaven even after committing shirk if sincere repentance is made before death, i.e. only someone who dies in the state of shirk will not enter heaven.

1 - Why doesn't your god allow non-believers to ask forgiveness after death?

2 - How can any sin that a fallible and limited human being commits during the few decades she is one this planet warrant subjection to horrifying pain in Hell forever and ever?

Reply 23

barton

9

Profesh

Are you sure she wasn't alluding to the potential squandered by settling for a mouth-breathing, remedial cretin such as yourself?

(Too slow, ****wit.)

I love you. :toofunny:

Incidentally, what do Mumlims think of the OP's question?

Reply 24

In2deep

14

Tantamount

1 - Why doesn't your god allow non-believers to ask forgiveness after death?

2 - How can any sin that afallible and limited human beingcommits during the few decades she is one this planet warrant subjection to horrifying pain in Hell forever and ever?

FAITH. Its answers both question really.
Firstly, if you could ask for forgiveness after death then everyone would commit sins on earth and when (and to some people "if") Day of judgement arrives you'll simply ask to be forgiven.
Secondly, as for "warranting hell for ever and ever", I do not know. But if you really believed that it existed than you would do anything to avoid it.

Reply 25

Nashy19

15

Better not take a Chemistry course if you can't consume alcohol compounds, the chances of getting some on your hands (and then in your mouth) is very high.

Funny how God designed the universe to have alcohol in it, a test of your faith, even though God determines the results.

Reply 26

Tantamount

In2deep

FAITH. Its answers both question really.
Firstly, if you could ask for forgiveness after death then everyone would commit sins on earth and when (and to some people "if") Day of judgement arrives you'll simply ask to be forgiven.

Let us take Islam as an example. This is a religion that claims that non-believers are destined to Hell. In other words, around 78% of the people that are alive today are going straight to Hell irrespective of how good a life they have led simply because they are not Muslims. The issue is, however, these people are not rejecting the Muslim god. This is because rejection implies existence and these people genuinely do not believe in the existence of this god. It is not for fun.

So, the Muslim god is going to punish these billions of people forever and ever in a place so terrible it which would make Auschwitz look fun. And all this for something they have no control over. It doesn't seem fair.

In2deep

Secondly, as for "warranting hell for ever and ever", I do not know. But if you really believed that it existed than you would do anything to avoid it.

It is simply unjust.

Reply 27

CombineHarvester

16

Tantamount

1 - Why doesn't your god allow non-believers to ask forgiveness after death?

2 - How can any sin that a fallible and limited human being commits during the few decades she is one this planet warrant subjection to horrifying pain in Hell forever and ever?

I'll answer both at the same time as they're heavily intertwined. The purpose of this life is meant to be test so we face the consequences of our actions in this life in the afterlife. On the day of judgement the truth will be apparent to everyone so there's no point in asking for forgiveness after death as everyone will obviously repent after knowing that if they don't they will spent eternity in hell. In this case, there's everything to lose and nothing to gain unlike our current life where there's ample opportunity for sin and wrongdoing but it's the abstinence from sin and living in the path of God which is more difficult.

Basically, everything is based on our actions in this life otherwise there's no point in doing good and you could simply live a life of sin throughout your life and then claim forgiveness after death. This life is like an exam and you will be graded on this on the Day of Judgement. Once you die, you are then judged.

Reply 28

nadiah

12

ajp100688

People don't drink it for it's taste with the exception of alcopops. Generally alcohol tastes pretty awful, people drink it for the effects.

Speak for yourself. Not saying I never drunk to get drink, coz that would be a lie, but I drink becuase ut tastes nice or becuase it goes with whatever food i'm eating, too.

Reply 29

bj_945

18

Grow up, it's a red liquid made of fermented grapes. It's fine.

Reply 30

CombineHarvester

16

Nashy19

Better not take a Chemistry course if you can't consume alcohol compounds, the chances of getting some on your hands (and then in your mouth) is very high.

Funny how God designed the universe to have alcohol in it, a test of your faith, even though God determines the results.

Only unnecessary consumption of alcohol is prohibited. Accidental use or medicinal use is not prohibited. The Qur'an even acknowledges alcohol has good qualities but the whole point it is that its negative qualities outweigh its positive ones.

Reply 31

Lefty Leo

10

Why do you think most suicide bombers are 18 year olds?

Reply 32

Ben.Shallot

OP

Profesh

Are you sure she wasn't alluding to the potential squandered by settling for a mouth-breathing, remedial cretin such as yourself?

(Too slow, ****wit.)

Haha, big words keyed into a computer won't ever mask that absolutely vile face you have.

Reply 33

Tantamount

CombineHarvester

The purpose of this life is meant to be test so we face the consequences of our actions in this life in the afterlife.

That still doesn't explain why a supposedly merciful and compassionate god cannot forgive people who are truly remorseful.

CombineHarvester

In this case, there's everything to lose and nothing to gain unlike our current life where there's ample opportunity for sin and wrongdoing but it's the abstinence from sin and living in the path of God which is more difficult.

Actually, if the god of the Quran exists, then there is also virtually everything to lose and nothing to gain. The minor enjoyments that someone can experience on this earth is simply not comparable to being subjected to Hell forever and ever.

CombineHarvester

Basically, everything is based on our actions in this life otherwise there's no point in doing good and you could simply live a life of sin throughout your life and then claim forgiveness after death.

I think there is an important distinction that is worth bearing in mind: doing something which you know to be wrong is not the same as doing something which is wrong but you don't know that it is wrong. In other words, one has to take intention into consideration. Assuming Islam is real, an atheist is obviously committing a sin by rejecting Him; however, the atheist does not know that it is wrong to reject this god. Therefore, is it right to punish this soul for a sin which he wasn't aware of?

CombineHarvester

This life is like an exam and you will be graded on this on the Day of Judgement. Once you die, you are then judged.

1 - What is the purpose of this test? He knows how we will perform even before He has created us.

2 - You have failed to put forward a justification for eternal punishment. Ok - we need to be punished for our wrongs, but why eternal punishment? It is wholly disproportionate. What is more, it contradicts the alleged compassionate and merciful nature of the god of the Quran: an example of a contradiction in Islam.

Reply 34

Rayel

8

Dude chill out. Everyone is allowed to be curious and slip up every now and again. The fact you feel guilty enough to go and mope on TSR about it means in all probability you've repented enough.

Move on with your life.

Reply 35

tazarooni89

20

nadiah

Not saying I never drunk to get drink.

lol

Reply 36

CombineHarvester

16

Tantamount

Actually, if the god of the Quran exists, then there is also virtually everything to lose and nothing to gain. The minor enjoyments that someone can experience on this earth is simply not comparable to being subjected to Hell forever and ever.

Living your life Islamically is not easy by any stretch of the imagination, and it's not supposed to be. Every deed whether good or bad will be taken into account so living 80 years or so whilst following the rules of the Islamic faith is not a minor feat at all. It is one which is richly rewarded in the afterlife and in the same way, living a life of sin and wrongdoing throughout your life will be heavily punished in the afterlife.

I think there is an important distinction that is worth bearing in mind: doing something which you know to be wrong is not the same as doing something which is wrong but you don't know that it is wrong. In other words, one has to take intention into consideration. Assuming Islam is real, an atheist is obviously committing a sin by rejecting Him; however, the atheist does not know that it is wrong to reject this god. Therefore, is it right to punish this soul for a sin which he wasn't aware of?

If you receive the message of Islam and you choose to reject it, you are knowingly committing sin (from a religious perspective). If you don't receive the message of Islam, you will be given another opportunity after death.

1 - What is the purpose of this test? He knows how we will perform even before He has created us.

Free will. It determines who will obey God despite living in an environment which has sin and wrongdoing made available to the person. Those who abstain and choose not to commit such acts will be separated from those who indulge.

2 - You have failed to put forward a justification for eternal punishment. Ok - we need to be punished for our wrongs, but why eternal punishment? It is wholly disproportionate. What is more, it contradicts the alleged compassionate and merciful nature of the god of the Quran: an example of a contradiction in Islam.

The merciful and compassionate nature comes with repentance, if you seek forgiveness from Allah in a sincere manner it is always possible that you will be forgiven. However, if one does not seek forgiveness and instead commits sin without acknowledging its consequences it is unlikely that this person will experience the merciful nature of Allah.

It may seem disproportionate, but it is proportionate to the life you exist in. For example, you may receive a small punishment in this life for theft or assault but the punishment will be much greater in the afterlife. In the same way, you may receive little or no reward in this life for treating the ill or giving to charity but this reward will be much greater in the afterlife.

Reply 37

nadiah

12

tazarooni89

lol

hahaha XD typos galore...

Reply 38

Tantamount

CombineHarvester

Living your life Islamically is not easy by any stretch of the imagination, and it's not supposed to be. Every deed whether good or bad will be taken into account so living 80 years or so whilst following the rules of the Islamic faith is not a minor feat at all. It is one which is richly rewarded in the afterlife and in the same way, living a life of sin and wrongdoing throughout your life will be heavily punished in the afterlife.

I don't think so. Trying to live a life in accordance with the guidelines set out in Islam for a couple of decades is a walk in the park compared to the unimaginable eternal punishment that your supposedly compassionate god has prepared for non-believers. Therefore, it virtually is a case of everything to lose but nothing to gain.

CombineHarvester

If you receive the message of Islam and you choose to reject it, you are knowingly committing sin (from a religious perspective). If you don't receive the message of Islam, you will be given another opportunity after death.

You have received the message of Christianity and you have chosen to reject it. Tell me, have you rejected Christianity for fun? Or, perhaps you have rejected it to piss off Jesus? Then again, perhaps you have rejected it because you, having given it some thought, do not think it is true. Similarly, I have rejected Islam because I don't think it is true. Therefore, your god is going to punish me for something that I have no control over. You might think that it is fair and morally just - I don't.

CombineHarvester

Free will. It determines who will obey God despite living in an environment which has sin and wrongdoing made available to the person. Those who abstain and choose not to commit such acts will be separated from those who indulge.

God knows who will and who will not commit these sins; however, we are still forced to take this test - what is the point?

CombineHarvester

It may seem disproportionate, but it is proportionate to the life you exist in. For example, you may receive a small punishment in this life for theft or assault but the punishment will be much greater in the afterlife. In the same way, you may receive little or no reward in this life for treating the ill or giving to charity but this reward will be much greater in the afterlife.

How is that fair?

Reply 39

khalaf

12

Shayke

Mass murder (as an example) is forgivable, but say, believing in another god/worshipping another god (from what I (wikipedia) understand of 'shirk') is not?

The punishment for taking someone's life is to be executed. The Quran says "If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people" Life is valued in Islam as it is by any other religion or culture.

Muslims, how bad is having a sip of wine?

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