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Is it right to label sexuality?

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Reply 60
Original post by ..*KITA*..
Very good point David. You sound like a manly man :P


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Thank you? You sound like a womanly woman :tongue:
Original post by DavidH20
Interesting...so how would you feel about previous encounters you'd had with them - say if you'd kissed them before or similar?

I like thought games :biggrin:


I would feel as though I had been deceived by the person and would find it very difficult to trust that person again, hence why I said I would be open to friendship but in reality I am not sure it would work. I would not doubt my sexuality however but I would be more analytical when choosing my next romantic partner, possibly even bordering on slightly insecure. This would stir up feelings inside of me as to doubt my own judgements and I imagine I would constantly seek approval of their sexuality for the pure and simple reason I would not want to be hurt/deceived or have to endure that much drama and confusion again.
Original post by nabilla
I agree. I think it is true that you can one day meet somebody and be attracted to them (note how I said somebody). I am straight but I know that one day I could easily be sexually attracted to someone of my sex. I think from now on, we should just say 'I am attracted to people' rather than saying men or women.


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What about people who are sexually attracted to no one?
Reply 63
Original post by Rainbows!
I would feel as though I had been deceived by the person and would find it very difficult to trust that person again, hence why I said I would be open to friendship but in reality I am not sure it would work. I would not doubt my sexuality however but I would be more analytical when choosing my next romantic partner, possibly even bordering on slightly insecure. This would stir up feelings inside of me as to doubt my own judgements and I imagine I would constantly seek approval of their sexuality for the pure and simple reason I would not want to be hurt/deceived or have to endure that much drama and confusion again.


That's fair enough and understandable. Would your reaction change, if, in this purely hypothetical situation, there were no deceit? i.e. the person in question never claimed to be male, and assumed that you were fully informed and happy with it? Basically, that the person whom you thought you met was entirely genuine, apart from genitalia ("man trapped in woman's body" kind of thing), due to misunderstanding.
Reply 64
Original post by Enigmatic Spirit
What about people who are sexually attracted to no one?


Again, they haven't met everyone to say that they aren't attracted to them...
Reply 65
Original post by Anonymous
Your hypothesis is ridiculous and unfounded. You do not need to perceive every possible combination of human genes to know you do not derive sexual attraction from them.


And why would that be? No two people are the same, so I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that one should reserve judgements on people as a whole. And genes are not all - otherwise identical twins would invariably share relationships.

Also, could I request you use a slightly politer tone in your criticism? I welcome debate and disagreement, but, especially if you're going to use the anonymous function, it doesn't leave me with a very good impression.
Reply 66
Original post by DavidH20
Just a thought I've had for a while:

If somebody says "I'll only date black men," or "I'm only attracted to blonde women with massive breasts," it isn't (generally) acceptable - it's seen as shallow, or even discriminatory, to only be attracted to a certain group of people because of physical qualities. Should it not be the same for saying "I'm only attracted to men/women?"

For example, I am male and have only ever been attracted to women, and if asked would call myself 'straight.' But I don't think that I should: I haven't met every man in the world, much less got to know them closely, and though there is no precedent, it is entirely possible that I would meet a man whom I am romantically attracted to.

Surely people shouldn't make sweeping generalisations such as this without full evidence: if we remove the romantic element and say, for example: "I hate all black people," this is considered wrong, as whilst someone may have disliked every black person they've met, they can't rightfully apply that to the entirety of the group. Why should it be different for romantic attraction to a gender?

Just wondering if anybody else has an opinion on the matter :smile:


I think it makes sense for purely practical reasons, for example if you believe you are only interested in men and sign up to a dating site it would be silly not to put that, because then you'd get loads of people who you are not interested in at all.

However, I don't think anyone should feel they HAVE to label their sexuality, or fit in with any particular label. Nor do I think people should feel they can't change their mind, or that just because they say 'I'm straight' means they definitely won't realise there are some people of the same sex you find attractive (it just might be unlikely, based on your experiences so far).

I also disagree with your comparison with saying "I hate all people of x race". This is very different to saying "I've only ever been physically attracted to people of x race"; personality is not biologically linked to physical appearance so the first would be an irrational judgement, but physical attraction is be definition about physical appearance. This is different to the 'romantic' element you mention, which could for many people 'override' physical attraction to an extent. I don't think there's anything wrong with only ever having been physically attracted to people of a certain race/hair colour etc, and I wouldn't judge someone badly for that. Platonic relationships, however, are a different matter.

xxx
(edited 11 years ago)
Obviously, some people only like only like their own gender sexually and some people only like the other gender sexually and some like both, I think bisexuals are greedy lol, but in all seriousness, yes it should be, if a guy tried flirting with another guy and and people didn't know what sexuality is, the guy would probably feel unwanted when in reality it's just because the guy only likes girls like that.

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Original post by DavidH20
That's fair enough and understandable. Would your reaction change, if, in this purely hypothetical situation, there were no deceit? i.e. the person in question never claimed to be male, and assumed that you were fully informed and happy with it? Basically, that the person whom you thought you met was entirely genuine, apart from genitalia ("man trapped in woman's body" kind of thing), due to misunderstanding.


No as I would still have a mind block that they still had female genitalia. Even if they had this changed, I could only imagine that person as a 'woman' and that would not be something I would desire in any way shape or form.
Reply 69
I agree wholeheartedly that no-one should be judged on basis of sexuality.

But at the same time to say that there may be a chance that I could be attracted to another male I haven't met yet is absurd. I know with 100% guarantee there is no man on Earth I would want to have sex with. None whatsoever. No matter how nice of a personality they have!
Reply 70
Original post by cakefish
I agree wholeheartedly that no-one should be judged on basis of sexuality.

But at the same time to say that there may be a chance that I could be attracted to another male I haven't met yet is absurd. I know with 100% guarantee there is no man on Earth I would want to have sex with. None whatsoever. No matter how nice of a personality they have!


What if they were Thai?
Yes, it helps with self-identity issues. :h:
Reply 72
Original post by DavidH20
Again, they haven't met everyone to say that they aren't attracted to them...


CAN YOU JUST NOT

The notion that asexuals "haven't met the right person yet" has been used for years to belittle or erase the experiences of asexuals and essentially deny their existence. Why does it matter about the labeling? Because we DON'T experience a certain aspect of life that others do and taking away our right to label ourselves leads to this notion of "oh, everyone is bisexual/everyone is sexual" and again, ERASES US.

This is like white people claiming that we should be "colourblind". People of colour have suffered oppression and the dominant group suddenly proclaiming that references to individuality must be avoided at all costs means the oppressed groups' voices are harder to be heard because the dominant group proclaims "we're all the same" and it's taken as gospel.
Original post by Chaoshi
CAN YOU JUST NOT

The notion that asexuals "haven't met the right person yet" has been used for years to belittle or erase the experiences of asexuals and essentially deny their existence. Why does it matter about the labeling? Because we DON'T experience a certain aspect of life that others do and taking away our right to label ourselves leads to this notion of "oh, everyone is bisexual/everyone is sexual" and again, ERASES US.

This is like white people claiming that we should be "colourblind". People of colour have suffered oppression and the dominant group suddenly proclaiming that references to individuality must be avoided at all costs means the oppressed groups' voices are harder to be heard because the dominant group proclaims "we're all the same" and it's taken as gospel.


I think a better way of putting it would be that no one can deny the possibility, however small, that they might be attracted to a gender or person at some point in their lives that they wouldn't expect to and 99% of the time wouldn't consider. There is always that possibility, however small

I also believe that sexuality can be, and is for many people, fluid and not set in stone. I used to be a lesbian. I was only attracted to women and the though of anything remotely male inside me disgusted me. I couldn't imagine ever having romanting feelings for a male. That changed, and I didn't deny myself that because of a label, but previously I was gay. That is how I felt, that is how I considered myself and that is what is important. We all have the right to give ourselves a label or not. Now, I don't label myself. I am attracted to who I am attracted to.

For someone to say that there may be a possibility, however remote that someone who feels they are entirely straight, gay, asexual, whatever - that there is a chance is not belittling, it is a statement that this is a possibility.
Reply 74
Original post by Chaoshi
CAN YOU JUST NOT

The notion that asexuals "haven't met the right person yet" has been used for years to belittle or erase the experiences of asexuals and essentially deny their existence. Why does it matter about the labeling? Because we DON'T experience a certain aspect of life that others do and taking away our right to label ourselves leads to this notion of "oh, everyone is bisexual/everyone is sexual" and again, ERASES US.

This is like white people claiming that we should be "colourblind". People of colour have suffered oppression and the dominant group suddenly proclaiming that references to individuality must be avoided at all costs means the oppressed groups' voices are harder to be heard because the dominant group proclaims "we're all the same" and it's taken as gospel.



Original post by Kabloomybuzz
I think a better way of putting it would be that no one can deny the possibility, however small, that they might be attracted to a gender or person at some point in their lives that they wouldn't expect to and 99% of the time wouldn't consider. There is always that possibility, however small

I also believe that sexuality can be, and is for many people, fluid and not set in stone. I used to be a lesbian. I was only attracted to women and the though of anything remotely male inside me disgusted me. I couldn't imagine ever having romanting feelings for a male. That changed, and I didn't deny myself that because of a label, but previously I was gay. That is how I felt, that is how I considered myself and that is what is important. We all have the right to give ourselves a label or not. Now, I don't label myself. I am attracted to who I am attracted to.

For someone to say that there may be a possibility, however remote that someone who feels they are entirely straight, gay, asexual, whatever - that there is a chance is not belittling, it is a statement that this is a possibility.


The second post was the point I was attempting to make; I'm sorry if I caused offence. My comment was only directed at asexual people because of the context of the comment I was replying to; I would say the same in response to question about heterosexuality or homosexuality. I wasn't attempting to belittle or deny anything, and I don't honestly see the connection with your analogy, but nonetheless, I apologise for any offence caused.

My belief, however, is still that one should remain open-minded to the possibility (no matter how small) of something unprecedented, in all areas of life.
Reply 75
I think sexuality is a lot more fluid than people like to think. In ancient Athens, homosexuality was the norm for men, and this has been the same in many other cultures and even groups within society. I would say it's more like a spectrum, with some people only able to be attracted to people of the same sex, some only the other and most with the opportunity for either, depending on the circumstances.
I don't think there's anything wrong with labelling people into groups, as long as these aren't set in stone and people understand this.
Reply 76
Original post by Alix23
I think sexuality is a lot more fluid than people like to think. In ancient Athens, homosexuality was the norm for men, and this has been the same in many other cultures and even groups within society. I would say it's more like a spectrum, with some people only able to be attracted to people of the same sex, some only the other and most with the opportunity for either, depending on the circumstances.
I don't think there's anything wrong with labelling people into groups, as long as these aren't set in stone and people understand this.


No way is that true. Acceptable, sure, but definitely not the norm. That'd be societal suicide unless the heterosexual couples were churning out babies at even greater rate than Catholics are 'supposed' to.
Reply 77
Original post by Hopple
No way is that true. Acceptable, sure, but definitely not the norm. That'd be societal suicide unless the heterosexual couples were churning out babies at even greater rate than Catholics are 'supposed' to.


Not certain of the source or truth of the post, but it could mean that homosexual behaviour was the norm rather than exclusive homosexuality.
Reply 78
Original post by Hopple
No way is that true. Acceptable, sure, but definitely not the norm. That'd be societal suicide unless the heterosexual couples were churning out babies at even greater rate than Catholics are 'supposed' to.


As pointed out above, I meant homosexual behaviour, or bisexuality really.
Wikipedia: "The ancient Greeks did not conceive of sexual orientation as a social identifier as Western societies have done for the past century. Greek society did not distinguish sexual desire or behavior by the gender of the participants"
Many gods are written about as having young boys as consorts, and this was quite normal in the upper classes in society.
Original post by Alix23
I think sexuality is a lot more fluid than people like to think. In ancient Athens, homosexuality was the norm for men, and this has been the same in many other cultures and even groups within society. I would say it's more like a spectrum, with some people only able to be attracted to people of the same sex, some only the other and most with the opportunity for either, depending on the circumstances.
I don't think there's anything wrong with labelling people into groups, as long as these aren't set in stone and people understand this.


It wasn't just Athens, but Greece. And it was paedophilic homosexuality really. It only applied to 'citizens' but it was expected that they take in a young boy to show him how to become a citizen. The boy giving the man sexual 'favours' was all part of this. The man would never pleasure the boy... But when the boy became a citizen he could have his own paedika.

Also, citizens, who were only male, had the right to sex with anyone who wasn't a citizen if he chose. Man, woman or child. But not other citizens and their wives.

So yes, homosexual behaviour was accepted and expected, but it was a cultural thing that we could never imagine calling moral in todays society and miles away from anything we could understand, so its not really a good base for comparison in this discussion

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