BPTC Ethics exam appeal Summer 2015
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Original post by CLSBPTC2015
I'm inclined to agree. Complaints of "ambiguous questions", "giving correct answers 0 marks" (and so on) just read as bruised egos. They will continue to do so unless and until someone manages to give specifics as to what aspects of the exam/marking were messed up, and why.
That being said, I feel for those who have failed despite hard work, and wish them luck.
That being said, I feel for those who have failed despite hard work, and wish them luck.
Your oversight - and frankly I am astonished that this is not obvious to you - is to assume that those with a grievance with the exam, given the present circumstances and the fact that wheels are still turning among the providers, would have any kind of interest in specifying the precise nature of that grievance at length and justifying it to you as an anonymous commenter on an internet forum.
So: enough trolling.
"Bar me": you're now coming across as petulant and irrational. Neither of the posts referred to were trolling you; that's just a safe way of dismissing an argument made on the internet.
Why would you not want to specify the grievance? If a JR is genuinely being contemplated then it will be public knowledge soon enough. There is no powder to be kept dry here: either the BSB has screwed up and knows it, or it hasn't and it knows it. It would be of interest to some as to which one is correct.
For what it is worth, I agree with CLSBPTC2015's view of the situation.
Why would you not want to specify the grievance? If a JR is genuinely being contemplated then it will be public knowledge soon enough. There is no powder to be kept dry here: either the BSB has screwed up and knows it, or it hasn't and it knows it. It would be of interest to some as to which one is correct.
For what it is worth, I agree with CLSBPTC2015's view of the situation.
It was a strange paper but then it is a strange subject. I came out thinking I could equally have got 100% or 0% on the SAQs based on the randomness of the questions and how absurd the mark schemes were for the mock papers. In one mock two marks were available for putting "stay calm and be polite" in response to belligerent opposing counsel. This is not sour grapes; I got an OS on the paper.
That said, I think JR based on unreasonableness or irrationality has no chance of success. The threshold is set very high. I wish you all the best with it if you go ahead.
I think people are genuinely trying to help and advise you on what they think of the idea of JR in this scenario rather than to troll the page or belittle your indignation, which I have complete sympathy with.
That said, I think JR based on unreasonableness or irrationality has no chance of success. The threshold is set very high. I wish you all the best with it if you go ahead.
I think people are genuinely trying to help and advise you on what they think of the idea of JR in this scenario rather than to troll the page or belittle your indignation, which I have complete sympathy with.
A word of warning to those who have been affected by this issue. I've been reading these forums for longer than I have been a member, and since before I obtained pupillage myself. I've lost count of the number of 'scandals' that have cropped up in relation to some aspect of the BVC/BPTC. It feels like every year there is some sort of issue in relation to something, and as serious as they all sound at the time, to my knowledge none of them has actually resulted in a change to anything. The end result to date has been that students have been left dealing with whatever marks they feel they received erroneously, and those who involved themselves in the attempt to enact change really just end up looking like every other law student who fights tooth and nail on principle whenever something goes wrong. In other words, they don't end up looking particularly good at all.
Now, I understand the frustrated feeling of believing that you're unjustly in a difficult situation. And I make it quite clear that I am quite deliberately not involving myself or otherwise commenting upon the merits or not of this particular issue. It may break the trend and be one that actually results in some sort of change. But my advice to those affected is to not be consumed by the notion that this situation can only be fixed by a challenge to the establishment, and spend some time thinking about how you are going to compensate for and deal with this situation if the challenge is unsuccessful. Because history tells us that there is at least a decent chance that it won't be, and being completely consumed by a sense of injustice isn't going to help you get anywhere when the dust settles.
Now, I understand the frustrated feeling of believing that you're unjustly in a difficult situation. And I make it quite clear that I am quite deliberately not involving myself or otherwise commenting upon the merits or not of this particular issue. It may break the trend and be one that actually results in some sort of change. But my advice to those affected is to not be consumed by the notion that this situation can only be fixed by a challenge to the establishment, and spend some time thinking about how you are going to compensate for and deal with this situation if the challenge is unsuccessful. Because history tells us that there is at least a decent chance that it won't be, and being completely consumed by a sense of injustice isn't going to help you get anywhere when the dust settles.
Apparently I have rated both Outlawed's posts and Crazy Jamie's posts too much already. CJ's is especially pertinent.
Sorry to say, if you think this exam is tough or unfair then wait for civil or criminal lit. It gets harder after ethics and you will be looking mentally and physically ragged by that stage.
I have seen BPP's materials last year, and some for the year before, and some for this year. I enjoyed the subject and enjoyed BPPs teaching.
Surely the way to get through is to study relentlessly and know every possible answer to any question that might come up under the syllabus. That is an exceptionally difficult task and requires a massive mental commitment. No provider can cover it. It takes hundreds of hours of quiet study. I am a huge advocate of BPP's teaching, but these exams are going to stay incredibly tough for a long time. Part is just down to luck because we can't humanly cover everything that could be asked, but every hundred quiet hours of study reduces the risk of failure a little bit.
Learning to study to get a first at uni is nowhere near enough preparation to learn to study and train to get through the BPTC.
I find it very hard to imagine that a tutor would encourage JR. Surely their role is to teach the law?
Finally, surely failing first time round is a good thing if it forces one to understand the code more intimately than their counterparts who passed first time and forgot it all?.
In terms of complaining about the interpretation of the code of conduct, didn't the BSB write the code? I wonder how a JR can challenge their interpretation of the test they wrote and marked about the code they wrote?
I have seen BPP's materials last year, and some for the year before, and some for this year. I enjoyed the subject and enjoyed BPPs teaching.
Surely the way to get through is to study relentlessly and know every possible answer to any question that might come up under the syllabus. That is an exceptionally difficult task and requires a massive mental commitment. No provider can cover it. It takes hundreds of hours of quiet study. I am a huge advocate of BPP's teaching, but these exams are going to stay incredibly tough for a long time. Part is just down to luck because we can't humanly cover everything that could be asked, but every hundred quiet hours of study reduces the risk of failure a little bit.
Learning to study to get a first at uni is nowhere near enough preparation to learn to study and train to get through the BPTC.
I find it very hard to imagine that a tutor would encourage JR. Surely their role is to teach the law?
Finally, surely failing first time round is a good thing if it forces one to understand the code more intimately than their counterparts who passed first time and forgot it all?.
In terms of complaining about the interpretation of the code of conduct, didn't the BSB write the code? I wonder how a JR can challenge their interpretation of the test they wrote and marked about the code they wrote?
Original post by B b b
Sorry to say, if you think this exam is tough or unfair then wait for civil or criminal lit. It gets harder after ethics and you will be looking mentally and physically ragged by that stage.
I have seen BPP's materials last year, and some for the year before, and some for this year. I enjoyed the subject and enjoyed BPPs teaching.
Surely the way to get through is to study relentlessly and know every possible answer to any question that might come up under the syllabus. That is an exceptionally difficult task and requires a massive mental commitment. No provider can cover it. It takes hundreds of hours of quiet study. I am a huge advocate of BPP's teaching, but these exams are going to stay incredibly tough for a long time. Part is just down to luck because we can't humanly cover everything that could be asked, but every hundred quiet hours of study reduces the risk of failure a little bit.
Learning to study to get a first at uni is nowhere near enough preparation to learn to study and train to get through the BPTC.
I find it very hard to imagine that a tutor would encourage JR. Surely their role is to teach the law?
Finally, surely failing first time round is a good thing if it forces one to understand the code more intimately than their counterparts who passed first time and forgot it all?.
In terms of complaining about the interpretation of the code of conduct, didn't the BSB write the code? I wonder how a JR can challenge their interpretation of the test they wrote and marked about the code they wrote?
I have seen BPP's materials last year, and some for the year before, and some for this year. I enjoyed the subject and enjoyed BPPs teaching.
Surely the way to get through is to study relentlessly and know every possible answer to any question that might come up under the syllabus. That is an exceptionally difficult task and requires a massive mental commitment. No provider can cover it. It takes hundreds of hours of quiet study. I am a huge advocate of BPP's teaching, but these exams are going to stay incredibly tough for a long time. Part is just down to luck because we can't humanly cover everything that could be asked, but every hundred quiet hours of study reduces the risk of failure a little bit.
Learning to study to get a first at uni is nowhere near enough preparation to learn to study and train to get through the BPTC.
I find it very hard to imagine that a tutor would encourage JR. Surely their role is to teach the law?
Finally, surely failing first time round is a good thing if it forces one to understand the code more intimately than their counterparts who passed first time and forgot it all?.
In terms of complaining about the interpretation of the code of conduct, didn't the BSB write the code? I wonder how a JR can challenge their interpretation of the test they wrote and marked about the code they wrote?
I think everyone who has been posting on here has already taken the other two centralised exams - at least the full timers have anyway. The issue also seems to be the actual exam questions and marking, rather than anyone's possession of work ethic and study skills, or appreciation of the difficulty posed by the BPTC. Personally, I found the GDL much worse.
(edited 8 years ago)
If I recall it correctly, you only fail prof con at BPTC if your actions would constitute professional negligence in the real world. Just because 55% of students fell into the 'trap', doesn't meant that the assignment was unfair. It only gets worse once you start practising law!
Original post by TheCynicalOne
If I recall it correctly, you only fail prof con at BPTC if your actions would constitute professional negligence in the real world. Just because 55% of students fell into the 'trap', doesn't meant that the assignment was unfair. It only gets worse once you start practising law!
Wrong. A completely erroneous description of the current exam.
there isn't an exam in 'prof con'. Its professional ethics. I think the poster is getting confused with the possibility of failing *any* of the exams on the basis of writing/saying something that, in real life, would expose you to risk of a being sued for negligence - what BPP calls a 'fatal flaw'.
Original post by TheCynicalOne
If I recall it correctly, you only fail prof con at BPTC if your actions would constitute professional negligence in the real world. Just because 55% of students fell into the 'trap', doesn't meant that the assignment was unfair. It only gets worse once you start practising law!
That doesn't seem entirely likely since the BPTC does not undertake a negative marking system whereby you only lose marks if you do something wrong. Candidates have to positively show their skills.
Original post by Advocatis
Hi Guys, Sorry to do a bit of blatant business development but I currently work as a lawyer at the UK's leading education law firm with around 70% of our work coming from higher education cases. We act for students taking on educational institutions and have experience preparing and representing students at all levels of internal academic appeals all the way up to the Court of Appeal.
Whilst your case would likely be a very challenging one, if you want some advice then feel free to pm me or, alternatively, get together as a group and book in for an initial consultation at our offices: https://www.matchsolicitors.com
Also, a word of warning, there is one barrister out there who claims to be an education law specialist however, unless he/she works at either 11kbw, matrix or 3pb, be very careful with who you use as the only barristers we ever instruct really come from these chambers:
Whilst your case would likely be a very challenging one, if you want some advice then feel free to pm me or, alternatively, get together as a group and book in for an initial consultation at our offices: https://www.matchsolicitors.com
Also, a word of warning, there is one barrister out there who claims to be an education law specialist however, unless he/she works at either 11kbw, matrix or 3pb, be very careful with who you use as the only barristers we ever instruct really come from these chambers:
the barrister in question works at 11kbw
Just out of curiosity, how is this going? I'd be very interested to know if you get leave for the JR, so do keep us updated.
I'm not a current BPTC student, but I would like to wish all those involved and affected the very best of luck!
Posted from TSR Mobile
I'm not a current BPTC student, but I would like to wish all those involved and affected the very best of luck!
Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by bar me
Hi - an appeal has been lodged with the BSB. This has been signed by around 50 of us. If this is rejected, the plan is to proceed with JR.
Good luck!
Posted from TSR Mobile
Hi i have a resit on 17 can anyone assist me by telling what was Q3 in SAq and ehat was the feedback provided by the BSB?
Can anyone help me in telling what was SAQ ; Q3 was about and what actually feedback said. will be appearing on 17th.
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