What makes Mirpuris have the reputation of being &quot;Bad&quot;

Original post by de_monies

I think people are taking British Mirpuris as the baseline here tbh, and most British Pakistanis are Mirpuris, and most British Pakistanis live in Bradford, Birmingham (The not so nice parts), so hence there's lots of "rude boys" in those particular areas. THOUGH that's not something just associated with Pakistani people - I've noticed that these people would be what you'd call "Asian chavs"

Literally every British male I know originally from Mirpur is a rude boy, trying to bang white girls, get a sick car and blasting out music on the streets with the homies.

I dunno about this other stereotype of those in Pakistan being uneducated, marring cousins etc.

Reply 23

The_Internet

20

Original post by AreebWithaHat

Literally every British male I know originally from Mirpur is a rude boy, trying to bang white girls, get a sick car and blasting out music on the streets with the homies.

I dunno about this other stereotype of those in Pakistan being uneducated, marring cousins etc.

Well then not me :biggrin:

(Though I was born here, even if the gov't refused to believe I was born here when I was one year old :biggrin:

)

Though the slightly annoying thing about my car is that the music kinda ricashades, so a fairly low volume can be heard outside of the car...

I personally like my "eco" cars :biggrin:

I know when I got my Honda civic, people seemed disappointed that it wasn't a "type R" and instead it's a hybrid :smile:

Aside from that, I do see where you're coming from. There's a racist assumption that white girls are "easy"

Reply 24

Original post by Ravenous

If anything, it's Pakistanis who are being 'tarnished' by Mirpuris e.g. whenever some Mirpuris do something bad like child grooming or electoral fraud it's called a "Pakistani problem" in this country. Just to clarify I'm not at all implying most Mirpuris do or support these things.

When people talk of Mirpuris of being backwards (e.g. marrying cousins) or uneducated compared to other Pakistanis they're talking about in the British Pakistani community, rather than Pakistanis as a whole. It's quite obvious that all sorts of people all around Pakistan are backward and uneducated regardless of their ethnic group or location. But amongst British Pakistanis it's Mirpuris who have the least education and the highest crime rates (not just because they're the majority, but they're over represented compared to other Pakistanis) and it's them who marry cousins rather than people from say Lahore. But by no means do all of them have low education, and most of them don't commit crime plus there are people from other areas of Pakistan who commit crime in the UK (for example the 7/7 bombers weren't Mirpuri afaik) so there definitely shouldn't be so much prejudice against Mirpuris in the UK. I can understand your frustration by having your people labelled backwards or uneducated.

It's not just because they're the majority, they're more likely to form gangs and be violent etc than the children of people from say Lahore or Faisalabad because their parents are less educated. This isn't just limited to Mirpuris though, it occurs with people from all around that region.

I think its time these myths that are currently being circulated in Pakistani circles are exposed for what they are - 'factoids'. If you don't know what that word means then please look it up. There is absolutely no 'evidence' to date that members of Mirpuri communities, the full length and breadth of the UK have ever been identified in these nefarious activities. Its just assumed because of their demographic presence in certain localities that gives way to such misguided notions in the first place. It was on this basis that 3 of the 7/7 bombers were identified as 'Mirpuris' back in 2005 because they happened to have originated from the Beeston neighbourhood of Leeds. Leeds, as you may know has a large Mirpuri presence and yet all 3 suicide bombers were from the Punjab; the parent's of the ringleader (Siddique Khan) were from Rawalpindi, Hasib Mir's parents were from Jhelum and Shezad Tanwir's parents were from Samundri in Faisalabad. Even newspaper reporters bought into this crap who simply accepted what certain Pakistanis were saying about this whole phenomenon of Mirpur being Pakistan's ****street.

Not many people know this - and I wonder why - most of the honour-based crimes that you hear on the news and in the media, committed by 'Pakistanis' are actually Pakistanis that hail from Pakistan proper and not Mirpur. Isn't that funny? Whenever individual backgrounds are probed, we learn that they are actually 'Pakistanis' from mainland Pakistan. This also applies to the sex groomers, how many have had their individual backgrounds probed for you to just assume that their Mirpuris? Tell me the names of the villages their parents are from???? I bet you don't even know and yet your prepared to accept 'myths' because they happen to be in circulation among your own people. The case of the Oxford Sex-groomers, apparently most of the 'Pakistanis' involved where actually Pakistanis and not Mirpuris. You really need to get your facts straight. Its just assumed that their Mirpuris - because its easy for your conscience.

Look at Pakistan, there are bombs going off, left, right and centre and yet Mirpur has produced not one suicide bomber. Isn't that strange for a region accused of all sorts of crimes. The first ever 'acid' attack reported in 'Azad' Jammu & Kashmir was in 2012 in Kotli, not even Mirpur. Yet acid attacks occur routinely in Lahore. Did you know that? Honour killings are rampant in Pakistan even in the cities? Did you know that. The literacy rate for Azad Jammu & Kashmir, Mirpur specifically is actually higher than any city in Pakistan. Did you know that? This is what your government tells us.

Mirpur has its problems absolutely. Forced marriages are a problem within the Mirpuri community. But please get your facts right.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 25

Original post by AreebWithaHat

Literally every British male I know originally from Mirpur is a rude boy, trying to bang white girls, get a sick car and blasting out music on the streets with the homies.

I dunno about this other stereotype of those in Pakistan being uneducated, marring cousins etc.

Areeb, stereotypes are stereotypes because you extrapolate on the basis of limited interactions, you don't know all Mirpuris and so on the basis of the few you know, please don't tarnish the reputation of all Mirpuris. My parents are from Mirpur and all my relatives are educated, not one of my cousins is a 'bad boy' in the manner you describe. Do I now say that all Mirpuris are doctors and lawyers because of the doctors and lawyers in my family? Do I say that Mirpuris are University lecturers or accountants or that they've all graduated from University because all my cousins and family friends have been to University? No, because its not an honest portrayal of Mirpuris in the UK. Likewise, if you happen to associate with 'bums' whose parents originate from Mirpur, it doesn't mean that every Mirpuri, or even the majority, or perhaps slightly half are bums???? I think you've been watching too many American movies for your own good!

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 26

Original post by de_monies

Yes,most Pakistanis in the UK have their ancestral home as Mirpur

Technically, they're not Pakistanis, or at least according to the Pakistani Government, the United Nations and every constitutional expert out there!

Reply 27

AreebWithaHat

Original post by Awan123

Areeb, stereotypes are stereotypes because you extrapolate on the basis of limited interactions, you don't know all Mirpuris and so on the basis of the few you know, please don't tarnish the reputation of all Mirpuris. My parents are from Mirpur and all my relatives are educated, not one of my cousins is a 'bad boy' in the manner you describe. Do I now say that all Mirpuris are doctors and lawyers because of the doctors and lawyers in my family? Do I say that Mirpuris are University lecturers or accountants or that they've all graduated from University because all my cousins and family friends have been to University? No, because its not an honest portrayal of Mirpuris in the UK. Likewise, if you happen to associate with 'bums' whose parents originate from Mirpur, it doesn't mean that every Mirpuri, or even the majority, or perhaps slightly half are bums???? I think you've been watching too many American movies for your own good!

nah you're right bro, apologies for stereotyping excessively. i just have real bad experience with a lot of them who I know personally. don't take it personal :smile:

i'm a mirpuri medic too lol, so I guess we can't all be that bad :wink:

Reply 28

Original post by AreebWithaHat

nah you're right bro, apologies for stereotyping excessively. i just have real bad experience with a lot of them who I know personally. don't take it personal :smile:

i'm a mirpuri medic too lol, so I guess we can't all be that bad :wink:

Your absolutely right. We're not all that bad and we shouldn't be portrayed in this manner, just as it would be bad for any other community from Pakistan or any other country for that matter to be denigrated because of the actions of a few. Its just with the mainstream Pakistani community, they are quick to accuse Mirpuris for all that is wrong with the Pakistani community. Which, if your a fair-minded person, is a tad unfair.

I hope you go on to become an accomplished medical practitioner in whatever area of medicine you choose! :smile:

Reply 29

AreebWithaHat

Original post by Awan123

Your absolutely right. We're not all that bad and we shouldn't be portrayed in this manner, just as it would be bad for any other community from Pakistan or any other country for that matter to be denigrated because of the actions of a few. Its just with the mainstream Pakistani community, they are quick to accuse Mirpuris for all that is wrong with the Pakistani community. Which, if your a fair-minded person, is a tad unfair.

I hope you go on to become an accomplished medical practitioner in whatever area of medicine you choose! :smile:

Definitely, my first post was a bit ignorant.

You as well brother.

Reply 30

The_Internet

20

Original post by Awan123

Technically, they're not Pakistanis, or at least according to the Pakistani Government, the United Nations and every constitutional expert out there!

WE'RE

(ie: me) And nah, we're Kashmiris :biggrin:

They get to govern themselves which is pretty decent, though the Pakistan gov't won't let them build an airport, because that'd mean a huge chunk of money would leave Pakistan :biggrin:

Not to say that there won't be any one coming in to say Karachi/Islamabad, because there would be business people from the Arab states mainly etc... but they'd lose most of Western customers

Not a medic, but I do work for a large company (well for a year any way)

Reply 31

Original post by de_monies

WE'RE

(ie: me) And nah, we're Kashmiris :biggrin:

They get to govern themselves which is pretty decent, though the Pakistan gov't won't let them build an airport, because that'd mean a huge chunk of money would leave Pakistan :biggrin:

Not to say that there won't be any one coming in to say Karachi/Islamabad, because there would be business people from the Arab states mainly etc... but they'd lose most of Western customers

Not a medic, but I do work for a large company (well for a year any way)

So are you're parents from Mirpur or some other part of Pakistan-administered-Kashmir?

No, they don't really govern themselves, if you mean the executive of the Azad Jammu Kashmir legislature. The government of AJK is controlled by the Ministery of Kashmir Affairs in Islamabad. But that's an entirely different discussion.

Reply 32

If you don't mind me asking but what's your ethnic background? I ask because it always seems to be non-Mirpuris usually from Pakistan who seem to be experts on all things 'mirpuri' malfeasant.

Reply 33

Btw, there is no empirical data by way of demographic surveys that corroborate such stereotypes; it is just merely assumed on the basis of the Mirpuri community's demographic profile that the perpetrators are from this community. No individual backgrounds have been probed to reveal the ethnic origins of the sex groomers in Pakistan. In the absence of such data, your claim is apocryphal in nature and a factoid. In other words it's prejudice.

Reply 34

The Assassin

Depleted

x

pls share opinion. thx

Reply 35

I recall your earlier comment "If anything, it's Pakistanis who are being 'tarnished' by Mirpuris e.g. whenever some Mirpuris do something bad like child grooming or electoral fraud it's called a "Pakistani problem" in this country."

That's what I mean by a factoid. Its not true because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise. And so the claim you made... "whenever some Mirpuris do something bad like child grooming or electoral fraud" is a prejudicial claim not based on any empirical data. Your claim is prejudicial and not factual in the absence of individual backgrounds being probed. Your just making assumptions based on popular anecdotes. Any comparison thereafter that seeks to expunge the 'reputation of the wider Pakistani community by singling out Mirpuris as the real perpetrators of these sorts of crimes is thus flawed and a little disingenuous.

And so relying on what an MP said in the north of the country about specific issues relating to their communities or what you read in a national or regional newspaper, for instance, is not proof that Mirpuris perpetrate these crimes. MPs are not paragons of truth or voice-pieces of evidence-based policies or social research, and when they do offer insights on their own communities, they can make mistakes, which they evidently do and on many occasions have been exposed for their unwarranted interventions. Newspaper journalists aren't any different and are motivated by all sorts of extraneous factors not directly connected with the stories they are commenting on. As Muslims (I'm assuming you are a Muslim), I'm sure none of us likes it when British Muslims are accused of being extremists because of the actions of one or another lunatic fringe however the 'Muslim' label is thrown about among a critical mass of uninformed readers?

That's what I mean by prejudice, most of what we read about the Mirpuri community especially through the vantage of other Pakistanis is prejudicial. Its like when a racist says, "I'm not a racist, I have "Black" and "Asian" friends, I'm just saying most of the crimes committed in my area are committed by "Jamaicans" and "Pakistanis"". Or when you hear a indigenous Britain saying, "I'm not racist towards immigrants I'm just saying "all" the Immigrants are taking "all" the jobs"! In other words were always confronting sweeping generalisations about all sorts of disparate people, casues and effects motivated by prejudice and ignorance at the hands of individuals who otherwise think they are enlightened and impartial.

I'm sure you think your just being impartial in your views but your views are very prejudicial, biased and flat-out wrong. For instance, "Azad Kashmiris are actually liked by Pakistan as a whole because they're seen as loyal to Pakistan rather than India." Why should liking a person be linked with loyalty to a country? Do you know all Pakistanis (in the diaspora or in Pakistan) to be in a position to validate that claim? Have you probed the beliefs of all 'Azad' Kashmiris to know if they really like Pakistan? How you perceive people or how you expect them to be is not the same thing as knowing the facts about a people. The facts being the operative word here.

As for all the other points you raised in your response they are are just superfluous to what I'm actually saying if not illogical - Lahore is a big place, Mirpur is small; so its natural to have bad things happening in a big place (all sorts of uneducated people migrate there) - right? So according to your logic the majority of the so-called British-Pakistanis are comprised of Mirpuris so therefore its natural that these "Pakistanis" would be over-represented in certain problems - right?. In other words they are as messed up or as virtuous as any other Pakistani people - right? Now read some of your comments to refresh your memory about what you actually said when comparing Mirpuris to other Pakistanis? Bear in mind the title of this thread and why I, from the British-Pahari community intervened on behalf of fellow Mirpuris constantly accused of all sorts of bad things.

And finally for the record, there have been no suicide bombers from Pakistan-administered-Kashmir specifically in "AJK". That again is a fact - the onus is on you to reveal the names of suicide bombers from AJK? Its people like you who say "X, Y, Z Mirpuris" commit X, Y and Z crimes and fail to actually prove if these people are actually from Mirpur or originate from Mirpur? If you make a claim - you have to prove it,... If I say you robbed Mr Joe Bloggs, I have to prove it and not ask Joe Bloggs to prove his innocence. I said Pakistan produces suicide-bombers - right? Its a fact, there are hundreds of people in Pakistan blowing themselves up in the name of their warped beliefs. I said there have been no suicide bombers from AJK - fact - now you prove my negation is wrong? And even then isolated incidents do not prove a norm and on either count, AJK is a much safer place than Pakistan.

Prejudice, factoids, ignorance, self-affirming bigotry, hatred, racism, delusions, scapegoating, caricaturing- that's what these discussions are really about. They tell us more about the mindset of the people who initiate the threads than those they're apparently discussing.

Reply 36

silaiestatira

7

Original post by The Assassin

pls share opinion. thx

Original post by Depleted

x

pls do

Reply 37