The Student Room Group

Please suggest something useful for me to do over the summer holiday

Please forgive me, but this post will probably make you feel a little nauseous. Yes, I know I'm a bit **** for asking this.

I'm a second year medical student who, as the title eluded to, would like to do something over the summer. I'm quite keen on surgery, clinical research, academic research. That type of stuff. I also quite like trauma type stuff. Pretty standard for a second year really.

I already volunteer and shizzle so please don't suggest that.

A bit has googleing has revealed something called "Summer Studentships".

Imperial Centre for Blast Injuries: http://www.imperial.ac.uk/blast-injury/opportunities/

Barts Centre for Trauma Sciences: http://www.c4ts.qmul.ac.uk/get-invlolved/get-involved

The thing is, "Summer Studentships" tend to only be open to 5th year students and, being a 2nd year, this makes me sad.

Does anyone know of anything similar to these that I might be able to do? It doesn't have to be related to trauma at all. Surgery related would be ideal. Even a purely lab based research project would interest me.

I'm also considering approaching some consultants I know who work in the hospitals I'm placed in at uni and who work in hospitals close to where I live at home. I'm planning on asking about any research or audits that I might be able to help out with. Has anyone had any experience/heard of anyone doing this?

Is there anything else out there I might be interested in?

Thank you guize!
Where are you based now? How long do you have for the summer? Is money a consideration, i.e. do you need to be paid for your summer time? Could you afford to spend X number of weeks in another city, e.g. in rented accommodation or a hostel?

The first thing to say is that you are planning very early and so I wouldn't rush into any particular opportunity unless it has a fixed deadline. I certainly wouldn't speak to local consultants yet as you will find it difficult to back out if something "better" comes up in the meantime. Local consultants would probably entertain a keen student for a summer without any difficulty or much notice. You will also have plenty of time to hang out with them during your clinical years...

It's probably worth thinking seriously about likely specialty choices at this point. Obviously you won't be committing yourself (and shouldn't commit yourself !!) but might as well do something that's as likely as possible to pay dividends later.

It sounds as if you are interested in the "high octane" specialties which isn't uncommon amongst medical students and might wear off in the future - but it's a place to start. A&E doctors, acute physicians, anaesthetists, intensivists, vascular surgeons, general surgeons, and orthopaedic trauma surgeons all manage severely injured and critically ill patients. "Trauma surgery" isn't really a specialty in the UK with the possible exception of the Royal London (i.e. Barts Centre for Trauma Sciences). You can probably do whatever you want so have a think about your ideal placement and then make it happen rather than feeling you have to apply for opportunities that are advertised.

Stay out of labs if you can unless you are considering a career in translational science. You're likely to spend your whole summer learning techniques that you will never use again and would have to be very lucky to get something tangible (e.g. a research paper) in such a short time. Do something with patients - it's what you signed up for ;-)

And finally, consider doing multiple things with your summer rather than one long commitment.
Reply 2
Most medical schools have a grant called INSPIRE which usually funds things like summer projects for medical students. In comparison to the previous poster, most students that do a summer project here get at least a national poster presentation. Do some googling and see who the INSPIRE lead is for your university and give them an email.
Thanks for the response!

Original post by MonteCristo
Where are you based now? How long do you have for the summer? Is money a consideration, i.e. do you need to be paid for your summer time? Could you afford to spend X number of weeks in another city, e.g. in rented accommodation or a hostel?


I study in Liverpool. I live in Leeds.
I would be available from mid July to early September.
I'm in a good financial situation at the moment. I'd be willing to pay for travel/accommodation to other city if needs be.

Original post by MonteCristo
I certainly wouldn't speak to local consultants yet as you will find it difficult to back out if something "better" comes up in the meantime. Local consultants would probably entertain a keen student for a summer without any difficulty or much notice.


Noted thanks. Jumping into an Audit with a consultant would be my last port of call.

Original post by MonteCristo
It's probably worth thinking seriously about likely specialty choices at this point.


Surgery for sure. Difficult to say what type but in order of preference (as of now): General, Ortho, Plastics, Vascular.

Original post by MonteCristo
Stay out of labs if you can unless you are considering a career in translational science. Do something with patients - it's what you signed up for ;-)


I'd much rather something more clinical so yeah!
Original post by Beska
Most medical schools have a grant called INSPIRE which usually funds things like summer projects for medical students. In comparison to the previous poster, most students that do a summer project here get at least a national poster presentation. Do some googling and see who the INSPIRE lead is for your university and give them an email.

This is very interesting and exactly the sort of thing I was looking for, thanks!

I've looked up my local lead, so will definitely email him. What sort of things should I be asking? I'd feel a little stupid emailing him something so broad as "I'm interested in surgery and I want to do some sort of research project over the summer. What have you got going?"But that's all I really know about what I want to do as of now.

How would I go about finding an actual project? Thanks!
Original post by QuestionableSam
Thanks for the response!



I study in Liverpool. I live in Leeds.
I would be available from mid July to early September.
I'm in a good financial situation at the moment. I'd be willing to pay for travel/accommodation to other city if needs be.



Noted thanks. Jumping into an Audit with a consultant would be my last port of call.



Surgery for sure. Difficult to say what type but in order of preference (as of now): General, Ortho, Plastics, Vascular.



I'd much rather something more clinical so yeah!


If you're already in Leeds it may be worth enquiring at LGI. They have a very strong academic unit when it comes to orthopaedics with both clinical (trauma) and lab-based (MSCs) research.

Otherwise London seems like an obvious destination, i'd personally love to spend some time in the blizzard institute at some point.
Original post by plrodham1
If you're already in Leeds it may be worth enquiring at LGI. They have a very strong academic unit when it comes to orthopaedics with both clinical (trauma) and lab-based (MSCs) research.


I plan to. My question is how should I go about it. At the moment all I can really say is "I wanna do research stuff about ortho. Do you have any research stuffI can do over the summer plz?"
Original post by QuestionableSam
I plan to. My question is how should I go about it. At the moment all I can really say is "I wanna do research stuff about ortho. Do you have any research stuffI can do over the summer plz?"


Just be honest with them. State your stage, that you're interested in orthopaedics and would like to get involved in some research to explore the specialty. You don't need to approach these places with a project in mind, they definitely don't expect that. More often than not they will have projects on the back burner that they may be too busy to complete currently that you would be able to get involved with.
Reply 8
Original post by QuestionableSam
This is very interesting and exactly the sort of thing I was looking for, thanks!

I've looked up my local lead, so will definitely email him. What sort of things should I be asking? I'd feel a little stupid emailing him something so broad as "I'm interested in surgery and I want to do some sort of research project over the summer. What have you got going?"But that's all I really know about what I want to do as of now.

How would I go about finding an actual project? Thanks!


Something like that is absolutely fine.
Fair enough!
Original post by Beska
Most medical schools have a grant called INSPIRE which usually funds things like summer projects for medical students. In comparison to the previous poster, most students that do a summer project here get at least a national poster presentation. Do some googling and see who the INSPIRE lead is for your university and give them an email.


A national poster presentation is fine but you should aim higher if planning to invest a whole summer vacation. If you are strategic, hard working, and a bit lucky you could spin one good research project into lots of outputs.

In an ideal world, you would apply for a small grant (e.g. from an INSPIRE scheme) to support your project then present the results both as an oral presentation at a conference and in a peer-reviewed publication. You would then apply for a small bursary from somewhere to cover your conference expenses. You would also submit your project for various local and national research prizes - have a look in advance at those offered by specialty organisations, the Royal Society of Medicine, and others. They are often (relatively) undersubscribed and a good submission has a reasonable chance of winning.

All of these things are worth cash (that you can reinvest into your career) or "points" that will help drive your career forward later on. You are at an early enough stage to plan things properly and get as much out of your investment as possible.

The only reason that I would suggest not staying locally is that you can do something "different", perhaps more interesting, and have a greater range of choice available to you. However, sometimes it's worth staying local because you might discover a supervisor who is willing to help/mentor you over the next few years. Perhaps a compromise would be heading to Leeds, which could mean living at home but also expanding your network beyond the hospitals you will grow to know very well during your clinical years? I don't know Peter Giannoudis at Leeds but he publishes a lot in the orthopaedic trauma world: http://medhealth.leeds.ac.uk/profile/750/883/peter_v_giannoudis/1
Original post by QuestionableSam

I've looked up my local lead, so will definitely email him. What sort of things should I be asking? I'd feel a little stupid emailing him something so broad as "I'm interested in surgery and I want to do some sort of research project over the summer. What have you got going?"But that's all I really know about what I want to do as of now.

How would I go about finding an actual project? Thanks!


That is exactly how you go about finding a project!! Realistically, for a summer project you need to get involved with something that already exists. Creating a completely new project yourself takes much longer, is much much more difficult, and you'll probably get far less to show in return for your time and effort.

Your first step should be to sniff out what projects are out there, so you need to spam a few consultants with an email just as broad as what you propose above. Once you've (hopefully) got some offers of potential projects, I would advise you to ask some detailed questions:

1) What exactly is the project? By this, I mean is it part of a big study or a small departmental audit or helping out with data collection for somebody's PhD etc
2) What would they expect you to do? Is it a project that will have you around and about the wards and theatres or is it more of a case of sitting down trawling through notes?
3) How much time do they think that it willl take? You dont want to throw yourself into a project you cannot complete, and also its worth asking yourself whether you want to devote your whole summer to it or would a project that would still give you some downtime during the break suit you better?
4) What do they anticipate that you'll get out of the project- are you working on something publishable? presentable? will you be a first author on the output?

In my books, finding a project that is acheivable, varied and interesting to conduct on a day-to-day basis (beware of anything that involves sitting in an office trawling through tonnes of notes- it.is.not.fun.), and will leave you with something to show for it at the end (CV points are not the be all and end all, but underestimate their importance at your peril when it comes down to the crunch in competitive specialities) is far more important than the actual subject matter!
Original post by plrodham1
Just be honest with them. State your stage, that you're interested in orthopaedics and would like to get involved in some research to explore the specialty. You don't need to approach these places with a project in mind, they definitely don't expect that. More often than not they will have projects on the back burner that they may be too busy to complete currently that you would be able to get involved with.


I think this depends on who you are contacting. It can sometimes be demoralising for senior researchers who get lots of emails from medical students and junior doctors asking for projects. It is also difficult taking over someone else's project, particularly one that may have lapsed or been abandoned for a good reason (i.e. it's not very good...).

If I were in your situation and staying locally, I would email a senior academic to express your interest in their specialty and ask whether they hold research seminars or works-in-progress meetings you could attend when your timetable allows. At those meetings you will see what research other people are doing, meet research fellows / PhD students, identify opportunities to help out with ongoing research projects, and select a good supervisor.

I would try to select someone who is a substantive academic (or at least publishes a lot - check PubMed) as many consultants will happily sell you their "great idea" which may well not turn out to be as great as they hoped. Once you've been given a project, you pretty much have to finish it; particularly if you hope to work in that specialty.

Obviously non-academic consultants are fine if you're predominantly looking for clinical experiences (+/- audit) that you might not otherwise get during your medical school rotations.

Finally, consider splitting up your summer... two weeks in resus at your local Major Trauma Centre followed by the rest of your time doing a research project? Or work in research the whole time but ask for a bleep that receives trauma alerts and cardiac arrest calls so you can break away for those?
Original post by MonteCristo
I think this depends on who you are contacting. It can sometimes be demoralising for senior researchers who get lots of emails from medical students and junior doctors asking for projects. It is also difficult taking over someone else's project, particularly one that may have lapsed or been abandoned for a good reason (i.e. it's not very good...).

If I were in your situation and staying locally, I would email a senior academic to express your interest in their specialty and ask whether they hold research seminars or works-in-progress meetings you could attend when your timetable allows. At those meetings you will see what research other people are doing, meet research fellows / PhD students, identify opportunities to help out with ongoing research projects, and select a good supervisor.

I would try to select someone who is a substantive academic (or at least publishes a lot - check PubMed) as many consultants will happily sell you their "great idea" which may well not turn out to be as great as they hoped. Once you've been given a project, you pretty much have to finish it; particularly if you hope to work in that specialty.

Obviously non-academic consultants are fine if you're predominantly looking for clinical experiences (+/- audit) that you might not otherwise get during your medical school rotations.

Finally, consider splitting up your summer... two weeks in resus at your local Major Trauma Centre followed by the rest of your time doing a research project? Or work in research the whole time but ask for a bleep that receives trauma alerts and cardiac arrest calls so you can break away for those?


Absolutely, in the back of my mind i was carrying on from the previous comment where i suggested LGI. I did my elective there and have done work since so i know that they are good with students so long as you are willing to put the effort in. I've only done clinical research there so can't comment on finding a lab based supervisor as i attend uni (and have completed my lap placements) elsewhere.
Reply 14
Original post by MonteCristo
A national poster presentation is fine but you should aim higher if planning to invest a whole summer vacation. If you are strategic, hard working, and a bit lucky you could spin one good research project into lots of outputs.

In an ideal world, you would apply for a small grant (e.g. from an INSPIRE scheme) to support your project then present the results both as an oral presentation at a conference and in a peer-reviewed publication. You would then apply for a small bursary from somewhere to cover your conference expenses. You would also submit your project for various local and national research prizes - have a look in advance at those offered by specialty organisations, the Royal Society of Medicine, and others. They are often (relatively) undersubscribed and a good submission has a reasonable chance of winning.

All of these things are worth cash (that you can reinvest into your career) or "points" that will help drive your career forward later on. You are at an early enough stage to plan things properly and get as much out of your investment as possible.

The only reason that I would suggest not staying locally is that you can do something "different", perhaps more interesting, and have a greater range of choice available to you. However, sometimes it's worth staying local because you might discover a supervisor who is willing to help/mentor you over the next few years. Perhaps a compromise would be heading to Leeds, which could mean living at home but also expanding your network beyond the hospitals you will grow to know very well during your clinical years? I don't know Peter Giannoudis at Leeds but he publishes a lot in the orthopaedic trauma world: http://medhealth.leeds.ac.uk/profile/750/883/peter_v_giannoudis/1


I fully support undergraduate involvement in research but it is important to have realistic expectations - publishing is always a goal but I think is very unlikely with a 4 or 6-week project. I know of BSc projects that have only found it into the acknowledgements of a paper, and MRes projects that have only found (just) second to last author (but not in the good way!), and they are significantly longer (the latter being 6 months) than a summer project. You are implying that "investing a whole summer vacation" is a particularly large or publication-worthy dedication of time, which I'd disagree with. A national poster is more than enough recognition for that work.

I think giving people expectations that they're going to spend 6 weeks optimising some kind of assay and walk out with a publication, an oral presentation, a couple of prizes (one local, maybe one national) is a little disingenuous and perhaps is what adds to the frustration of people not realising that research is definitely the long-game and not a "6 weeks in, loads of output out".
Original post by Beska
I think giving people expectations that they're going to spend 6 weeks optimising some kind of assay and walk out with a publication, an oral presentation, a couple of prizes (one local, maybe one national) is a little disingenuous and perhaps is what adds to the frustration of people not realising that research is definitely the long-game and not a "6 weeks in, loads of output out".


I agree that most students do not squeeze all of this out of a single project and that unrealistic expectations are sometimes a problem for undergraduate researchers. It's also by no means a failure if a first undergraduate project stops at a poster presentation. That said, the most productive approach is surely to plan around maximising the number of outputs that can be achieved from a single project. It is also why it is so important for students to work in the right group and (ideally) select a project that meets their needs. Success in research is all about backing the right horse...

I wouldn't encourage undergraduates to pursue lab research unless they are considering a career in translational science - in which case they might benefit from early experience. In fact, I think they would have to be very lucky to get a poster at a serious national meeting after only six weeks working in a lab.

One caveat is that research outputs will never appear immediately after the six week project - the bulk of the work (data collection/analysis) could be done during that time but the publication process can drag on for a year plus. This is why the OP is absolutely right to think about this now and not in his/her final year.

I've published a number of papers in serious journals that were written in <72 hours - and did so as a medical student as well. I wouldn't suggest that it's easy (particularly for someone starting out) or even possible for most projects but it certainly can be done. There's no reason why an undergraduate shouldn't shop around for a high yield project while acknowledging that most student research will not generate infinite returns.
Reply 16
Original post by MonteCristo
I agree that most students do not squeeze all of this out of a single project and that unrealistic expectations are sometimes a problem for undergraduate researchers. It's also by no means a failure if a first undergraduate project stops at a poster presentation. That said, the most productive approach is surely to plan around maximising the number of outputs that can be achieved from a single project. It is also why it is so important for students to work in the right group and (ideally) select a project that meets their needs. Success in research is all about backing the right horse...

I wouldn't encourage undergraduates to pursue lab research unless they are considering a career in translational science - in which case they might benefit from early experience. In fact, I think they would have to be very lucky to get a poster at a serious national meeting after only six weeks working in a lab.

One caveat is that research outputs will never appear immediately after the six week project - the bulk of the work (data collection/analysis) could be done during that time but the publication process can drag on for a year plus. This is why the OP is absolutely right to think about this now and not in his/her final year.

I've published a number of papers in serious journals that were written in <72 hours - and did so as a medical student as well. I wouldn't suggest that it's easy (particularly for someone starting out) or even possible for most projects but it certainly can be done. There's no reason why an undergraduate shouldn't shop around for a high yield project while acknowledging that most student research will not generate infinite returns.


That's a lot more reasoned than what you originally said, which basically concluded 'if you only get a poster it's a waste of time'. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with lab-based research and I would encourage students to get involved in both lab-based and clinical research, I certainly wouldn't dissuade people from getting involved. It seems like you've either followed a single path or believe that there is one single path to follow and want everybody to toe that line - indeed, how can anybody know they don't want to pursue translational (or indeed, basic science research) without actually doing it?! As always, it isn't just about the posters and the papers you get at the end... such an output-focused way of looking at things may stifle some personal/professional development. I have to disagree with your whole approach.
Original post by Beska
That's a lot more reasoned than what you originally said, which basically concluded 'if you only get a poster it's a waste of time'. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with lab-based research and I would encourage students to get involved in both lab-based and clinical research, I certainly wouldn't dissuade people from getting involved. It seems like you've either followed a single path or believe that there is one single path to follow and want everybody to toe that line - indeed, how can anybody know they don't want to pursue translational (or indeed, basic science research) without actually doing it?! As always, it isn't just about the posters and the papers you get at the end... such an output-focused way of looking at things may stifle some personal/professional development. I have to disagree with your whole approach.


I'm happy to be disagreed with but my statement about posters ("a national poster presentation is fine") shouldn't ever have been characterised as "if you only get a poster it's a waste of time".

There is more to research than tangible outputs but students should still aim to get as much as possible out of the limited time they have available. It doesn't matter what that something is (publications, skills, experience, contacts, even fun...) but I do think they should plan to maximise their time.

If students had unlimited time and opportunities then of course they should try every specialty and every area of research. The reality is that they don't have unlimited time and have to discriminate between projects based on how likely they are to provide whatever it is they want/need. For students "considering a career" (per my original post) or interested in lab research, that may well be exactly the right setting for them. They do however need to be aware that fast outputs are not a feature of lab research - not necessarily to dissuade them but so that expectations are managed appropriately, as you pointed out in an earlier post.

Sorry to the OP for this digression which might or might not be useful. There are obviously different ways to frame the decision as to how you spend your vacation period...!
Reply 18
Original post by MonteCristo
Sorry to the OP for this digression which might or might not be useful. There are obviously different ways to frame the decision as to how you spend your vacation period...!


Haha yes, but I suppose discussions like this might be quite useful. Ensures neither of us are talking rubbish. Quite good to have different views!
I'd go for having fun and recharging your batteries. You only get 2 long summer holidays at medical school make the most of them. Once you qualify you're working flat out unless you locum and even as a locum you worry about turning work down in case there's no work the next week.

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending