Owen Jones finally slips the knife into Jeremy Corbyn
Owen Jones just published an incredible post on Medium explaining why Corbyn is unelectable and essentially calling for him to step down.
It's a very interesting read, quite heartfelt and very revealing. It's a devastating critique of the insularity and arrogance of this in the CorbynBunker
https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/questions-all-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-need-to-answer-b3e82ace7ed3#.txqbm71w3
It's a very interesting read, quite heartfelt and very revealing. It's a devastating critique of the insularity and arrogance of this in the CorbynBunker
https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/questions-all-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-need-to-answer-b3e82ace7ed3#.txqbm71w3
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Now is the time for people who want Labour to have a future to speak up. From about 2018, everything will count when it comes to the next General Election, and if Labour are to be in a fit state to contend, they need an established leadership before then.
Original post by MildredMalone
Now is the time for people who want Labour to have a future to speak up. From about 2018, everything will count when it comes to the next General Election, and if Labour are to be in a fit state to contend, they need an established leadership before then.
Absolutely.
The Corbynista are now attacking Owen Jones as a "Blairite", which just shows what a personality cult Momental is. They are an albatross around the party's neck.
The great irony is that Labour actually has some real talent in the PLP who could lead the party well; Sir Keir Starmer, Dan Jarvis, Alan Johnson, Yvette Cooper. But in the present Stalinist climate they dare not put themselves forward
Shows he is a lot more nuanced than given credit for.
Original post by AlexanderHam
Owen Jones just published an incredible post on Medium explaining why Corbyn is unelectable and essentially calling for him to step down.
It's a very interesting read, quite heartfelt and very revealing. It's a devastating critique of the insularity and arrogance of this in the CorbynBunker
https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/questions-all-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-need-to-answer-b3e82ace7ed3#.txqbm71w3
It's a very interesting read, quite heartfelt and very revealing. It's a devastating critique of the insularity and arrogance of this in the CorbynBunker
https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/questions-all-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-need-to-answer-b3e82ace7ed3#.txqbm71w3
Its a critique but it's no where near the hyperbole you make it out to be
Original post by AlexanderHam
Owen Jones just published an incredible post on Medium explaining why Corbyn is unelectable and essentially calling for him to step down.
It's a very interesting read, quite heartfelt and very revealing. It's a devastating critique of the insularity and arrogance of this in the CorbynBunker
https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/questions-all-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-need-to-answer-b3e82ace7ed3#.txqbm71w3
It's a very interesting read, quite heartfelt and very revealing. It's a devastating critique of the insularity and arrogance of this in the CorbynBunker
https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/questions-all-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-need-to-answer-b3e82ace7ed3#.txqbm71w3
My issue with his piece, is that it fails to deal with what is the potential fatal flaw in all of this. Should Corbyn stand down as leader, it is not only going against the principles of the labour party, it is in many ways admitting that the majority of the party simply do not want a socialist government. If this is the case, then splitting the labour party and removing it entirely would be the best course of action.
Owen Jones touches on the media issue at the end, but to stand back and throw our hands in the air and give up because the mainsteam media is against Corbyn is not the answer.
For many (myself included), Corbyn represents something that the British political system needs, and the crisis in the labour party represents everything wrong with the system. For me, this isn't just a battle for the soul of the labour party or for the next election, but for the landscape of British politics for the next few decades.
I'm not concerned about Labour winning the next election, what I want to see is the house of Commons becoming a centre for careful and rational debate.
Original post by AlexanderHam
Absolutely.
The Corbynista are now attacking Owen Jones as a "Blairite", which just shows what a personality cult Momental is. They are an albatross around the party's neck.
The Corbynista are now attacking Owen Jones as a "Blairite", which just shows what a personality cult Momental is. They are an albatross around the party's neck.
If you took the time to check through the comments on the actual blog you will see that this is not at all representative of the response from 'Corbynistas'. You have looked at the media response to the article. All they do is trawl through the twitter feed looking for the word Blairite,and then apply it to all Corbyn supporters. The support for Corbyn is almost the opposite of a personality cult. It is not the man it is what he represents. The antithesis of the establishment.
Original post by AlexanderHam
The Corbynista are now attacking Owen Jones as a "Blairite"
Wow, are you serious? Tell me you're joking......
Original post by Aliccam
If you took the time to check through the comments on the actual blog you will see that this is not at all representative of the response from 'Corbynistas'. You have looked at the media response to the article. All they do is trawl through the twitter feed looking for the word Blairite,and then apply it to all Corbyn supporters.
I swear you yourself has done this on here*
as in tarring everyone within to party who doesn't hero worship Corbyn as a BlairiteOriginal post by KimKallstrom
Wow, are you serious? Tell me you're joking......
Nop. He's being accused of being a Blairite.
I really think you should read the article. It's a stinging critique of Corbyn.
Original post by KimKallstrom
Wow, are you serious? Tell me you're joking......
" Oh, but stop portraying Corbyn supporters as an abusive, intolerant mob. *Loads* are sharing the blog and responding positively. "
" Barely anybody has called me a Blairite or a Tory, by the way, apart from a few eccentric oddballs. So can we drop that narrative. Cheers! "
Owen Jones on Twitter
I was actually going to ask him in his youtube channel if he was worried about the left of labour basically getting destroyed after all this. Owen originally didn't want a left wing candidate to stand in the leadership and get humiliatingly defeated, rather he wanted a 'soft left' candidate like Lisa Nandy to stand.
Well what has been happening seems like a much worse scenario, the left won and are now going to be completely discredited.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Bornblue
Shows he is a lot more nuanced than given credit for.
I'll call concede that. More pragmatic than I had him down as before. I also have to give him credit for fronting up to the Momentum bullies given their distasteful habit of slandering anyone who disagrees with them on anything, especially Corbyn. It's one thing for someone from the PLP to do it as Momentum probably oppose them in the first place anyway and they have the rest of the moderates to side with but Jones risked a lot here and that's quite brave. I always say that the ability to change one's mind is a good trait.
However I must admit a small part of me considered it a plus point for Corbyn to be attacked by Owen Jones, like a badge of honour
*I'll say though that I'm unsure how much damage this'll do to Corbyn, given the personality cult that surrounds him and the fact his supporters are the most blind and dogmatic people in the world. Instead of thinking "hmmm, if even Owen Jones has had enough of him then maybe it's worth reading the article" (and they should as it's actually a very good post hes written there) they'll call Jones a Blairite or some deluded nonsense.Still, I've grown a slight bit of respect for Jones.*
*
Original post by Bornblue
Nop. He's being accused of being a Blairite. I really think you should read the article. It's a stinging critique of Corbyn.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
" Oh, but stop portraying Corbyn supporters as an abusive, intolerant mob. *Loads* are sharing the blog and responding positively. "
" Barely anybody has called me a Blairite or a Tory, by the way, apart from a few eccentric oddballs. So can we drop that narrative. Cheers! "
Owen Jones on Twitter
I was actually going to ask him in his youtube channel if he was worried about the left of labour basically getting destroyed after all this. Owen originally didn't want a left wing candidate to stand in the leadership and get humiliatingly defeated, rather he wanted a 'soft left' candidate like Lisa Nandy to stand.
Well what has been happening seems like a much worse scenario, the left won and are now going to be completely discredited.
" Barely anybody has called me a Blairite or a Tory, by the way, apart from a few eccentric oddballs. So can we drop that narrative. Cheers! "
Owen Jones on Twitter
I was actually going to ask him in his youtube channel if he was worried about the left of labour basically getting destroyed after all this. Owen originally didn't want a left wing candidate to stand in the leadership and get humiliatingly defeated, rather he wanted a 'soft left' candidate like Lisa Nandy to stand.
Well what has been happening seems like a much worse scenario, the left won and are now going to be completely discredited.
Perhaps it's the oddballs who shout the loudest, but I have to say that given everything I've seen of that lot (including my own family members lol) I think Jones is likely downplaying it. They have a very consistent recent history of this by and large I'm afraid to say....
As for your other point, I'd object to the notion that Corbynites are the only representation of the left. Owen Smith is hardly Mllton Freidman! *
Original post by KimKallstrom
Perhaps it's the oddballs who shout the loudest, but I have to say that given everything I've seen of that lot (including my own family members lol) I think Jones is likely downplaying it. They have a very consistent recent history of this by and large I'm afraid to say....
As for your other point, I'd object to the notion that Corbynites are the only representation of the left. Owen Smith is hardly Mllton Freidman! *
As for your other point, I'd object to the notion that Corbynites are the only representation of the left. Owen Smith is hardly Mllton Freidman! *
I think Owen Smith is only tacking so far to the left to win the candidacy, given that Labour's membership is very left wing. I'm sure he'll shift back towards the centre (left) if he gets elected.
Original post by AlexanderHam
Absolutely.
The Corbynista are now attacking Owen Jones as a "Blairite", which just shows what a personality cult Momental is. They are an albatross around the party's neck.
The great irony is that Labour actually has some real talent in the PLP who could lead the party well; Sir Keir Starmer, Dan Jarvis, Alan Johnson, Yvette Cooper. But in the present Stalinist climate they dare not put themselves forward
The Corbynista are now attacking Owen Jones as a "Blairite", which just shows what a personality cult Momental is. They are an albatross around the party's neck.
The great irony is that Labour actually has some real talent in the PLP who could lead the party well; Sir Keir Starmer, Dan Jarvis, Alan Johnson, Yvette Cooper. But in the present Stalinist climate they dare not put themselves forward
Yvette Cooper - What? She stands for everything that a lot of the voters Labour need are against, she is a classic PC moron.
As a conservative, I'd just like to offer my thanks for your guaranteeing us another five years in 2020.
Original post by Bornblue
I think Owen Smith is only tacking so far to the left to win the candidacy, given that Labour's membership is very left wing. I'm sure he'll shift back towards the centre (left) if he gets elected.
it did strike me as odd that someone with his business experience would have the views displayed in his proposals he set out the other day. Still, I thought he was quite left wing before that. Equality of outcome over equality in opportunity and all that. In any case, if him and Eagle are all Labour are bringing as alternative candidates (neither electable) then it's not good news for Labour.*
Look, people poo poo Blair etc but you've got to admit that without getting elected we wouldn't have the minimum wage, initiatives like Sure Start and so much NHS funding. The party have got to face the reality that appealing only to one portion of society isn't going to achieve things like this.
A million people got lifted out of poverty in this era but certain sections of the party engage in this revisionism that suggests it wasn't a successful time for what Labour stands for. It seems to me (and much of the electorate) that these people's agenda isn't helping the poor (who got helped plenty under Blair) but rather an attack on how the rich benefitted also. That screams to me a desire not to help anyone, but rather wanting some to do badly and to hell with those they pretend to champion. It's a pretty hate-driven paradigm and that's no good for anybody. And this notion that it's OK to not get to not get into power - just to "stay true" even though it guarantees years of (what they see as) Tory abuse and licence to do whatever they like despite the inevitable suffering of the poorest (of who they propose to have the best interests at heart) is outrageous. I can't stand it.*
It's all well and good for these middle-class people to think this way as they'll still be middle class at the end of it all. But for the people in the Labour heartlands - from where they're haemoraging votes to parties who seem to actually care about them -**it's life-ruining. While the party continues to think this way, they're doomed to perpetual failure as the non-entities that they presently are*
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by KimKallstrom
A million people got lifted out of poverty in this era but certain sections of the party engage in this revisionism that suggests it wasn't a successful time for what Labour stands for.
A million people got lifted out of poverty in this era but certain sections of the party engage in this revisionism that suggests it wasn't a successful time for what Labour stands for.
So equality of outcome increased.
You know you could have equality of opportunity where the loser gets shot and it would still be equality for you lot.
Equality of outcome is important. The NHS is like one big heap of equality of outcome.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by KimKallstrom
Look, people poo poo Blair etc but you've got to admit that without getting elected we wouldn't have the minimum wage, initiatives like Sure Start and so much NHS funding. The party have got to face the reality that appealing only to one portion of society isn't going to achieve things like this.
A million people got lifted out of poverty in this era but certain sections of the party engage in this revisionism that suggests it wasn't a successful time for what Labour stands for. It seems to me (and much of the electorate) that these people's agenda isn't helping the poor (who got helped plenty under Blair) but rather an attack on how the rich benefitted also. That screams to me a desire not to help anyone, but rather wanting some to do badly and to hell with those they pretend to champion. It's a pretty hate-driven paradigm and that's no good for anybody. And this notion that it's OK to not get to not get into power - just to "stay true" even though it guarantees years of (what they see as) Tory abuse and licence to do whatever they like despite the inevitable suffering of the poorest (of who they propose to have the best interests at heart) is outrageous. I can't stand it.*
It's all well and good for these middle-class people to think this way as they'll still be middle class at the end of it all. But for the people in the Labour heartlands - from where they're haemoraging votes to parties who seem to actually care about them -**it's life-ruining. While the party continues to think this way, they're doomed to perpetual failure as the non-entities that they presently are*
Look, people poo poo Blair etc but you've got to admit that without getting elected we wouldn't have the minimum wage, initiatives like Sure Start and so much NHS funding. The party have got to face the reality that appealing only to one portion of society isn't going to achieve things like this.
A million people got lifted out of poverty in this era but certain sections of the party engage in this revisionism that suggests it wasn't a successful time for what Labour stands for. It seems to me (and much of the electorate) that these people's agenda isn't helping the poor (who got helped plenty under Blair) but rather an attack on how the rich benefitted also. That screams to me a desire not to help anyone, but rather wanting some to do badly and to hell with those they pretend to champion. It's a pretty hate-driven paradigm and that's no good for anybody. And this notion that it's OK to not get to not get into power - just to "stay true" even though it guarantees years of (what they see as) Tory abuse and licence to do whatever they like despite the inevitable suffering of the poorest (of who they propose to have the best interests at heart) is outrageous. I can't stand it.*
It's all well and good for these middle-class people to think this way as they'll still be middle class at the end of it all. But for the people in the Labour heartlands - from where they're haemoraging votes to parties who seem to actually care about them -**it's life-ruining. While the party continues to think this way, they're doomed to perpetual failure as the non-entities that they presently are*
I absolutely agree that you need to be elected to change anything, I absolutely agree that Blair did a lot of good things like you say. However he also did a lot of bad things (without evening mentioning the Iraq war).
The biggest thing for me was that he introduced the market into the NHS and State Education. Now i'm not someone who thinks the free market is evil and in many areas the free market is better than the state. However in certain areas a profit motive has reduced performance as it has done in health and education.
By introducing the market into the NHS and State Schools, he in effect paved the way for the tories to introduce it a lot more and privatize a lot more of the services and it gave them an excuse of 'Labour did it too'.
Those were simply tory policies, introduced by a Labour Prime Minister with a stonking majority against a weak opposition.
So he did a lot of good but a lot of bad too, which he simply didn't need to do.
You need a balance between power and principles. Under Corbyn it's become far too much about 'principles' with no thought or real desire to gain power. Under Blair it went too far the other way. You need a balance.
You also need a balance between giving people what they want but also trying to win them over. Again under Corbyn, there's been far too little of giving people what they want. Under Blair there was far too little of trying to win people over by the end.
So i'm left in the middle. Frustrated at some on the hard right of the party who are prepared to start privatizing the NHS, Labour's greatest creation but also frustrated at the Corbynites who have no interest in gaining power and actually making a difference.
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