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What comes first.. thought or language?

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Reply 60
this is the most interesting thread i've read in a long time
Reply 61
I would say that language is thought?
I think in english even though it's not my first language. It's as if, I compare and translate words from english into my mother tongue rather than acknowledge them in their own right. I even dream in English. I find it really strange that English is the central language, even though I hear another language at home most of the time
When I dream there is usually no monologue.
I don't think there is language in dreams (certainly not all) - they are just a series of events, images and feelings.

And dreams are a kind of thought are they not?
Thought I would have said.
You can't create language without thought.
Reply 64
mathperson
Thanks!
OK I think Islam and muslims have done well enough to portray what they are like right here on TSR, let alone everything else.
Anyway it isn't immature, it is simply me excercising my right to say what I like, if you don't like it then 'tuff' basically.



ermm don't think ur smart by takin cracks lyk tht, ur being so ignorant its unbelievable, and honestly...all im saying is u dnt need to be rude or disrespectful wen ur conveying your opnion...u totally hv the ryt to your opinion, but theres always a nicer way to say things....or in some cases its better not to say nething at all....and also....dont b stereotypical...not cool....u dont know every muslim tht exists to b able to comment on "what they are like", to be hinest i'd b surprised if u knew the first thing about islam other than what the media exaggerates and lies about....so just keep ur pathetic comments to urself....cz no1 wants to hear them
lalabo
ermm don't think ur smart by takin cracks lyk tht, ur being so ignorant its unbelievable, and honestly...all im saying is u dnt need to be rude or disrespectful wen ur conveying your opnion...u totally hv the ryt to your opinion, but theres always a nicer way to say things....or in some cases its better not to say nething at all....and also....dont b stereotypical...not cool....u dont know every muslim tht exists to b able to comment on "what they are like", to be hinest i'd b surprised if u knew the first thing about islam other than what the media exaggerates and lies about....so just keep ur pathetic comments to urself....cz no1 wants to hear them


you are typical, and are not worthy of my time, you subhuman creature.
Reply 66
mathperson
you are typical, and are not worthy of my time, you subhuman creature.



seriously...you've just proved to every1 what you are like.....i havent said anything insulting about you or your humanity....just goes to show that i have a good point n because you have no way in which you can justify your comments....you turn and start insulting me.....you don't even know me dude.....its just things like that, that show everyone your true colours....
lalabo
seriously...you've just proved to every1 what you are like.....i havent said anything insulting about you or your humanity....just goes to show that i have a good point n because you have no way in which you can justify your comments....you turn and start insulting me.....you don't even know me dude.....its just things like that, that show everyone your true colours....


Yeah that is typical also, turn it round on me. Yeah I don't know you, but the only reason you havn't shown everyone your true colours is because I havn't asked you any questions. We've all seen muslims on here "giving it the mouth etc", but when confronted with a logical argument and streight to the point questions they dance around the subject etc etc.
I'm not going to reply anymore - and the typical thing you would say now is that I'm not going to because I have in some way 'lost' the argument- well thats not it, but you are simply not worthy of my time.
Goodbye.
Ma.Cl.
Thought.
Before a baby/toddler develops language. S/he already know whats, what.
Mainly by imitation. But for example, if a baby touches something hot, after experiencing
that pain, they wont touch it again. Language is not needed to develop that instinct.


Yes, and they could think things through, for example working out that dragging a chair up to a cabinet means that they could reach an item on top of it. You don't need words/language for that.
Reply 69
mathperson
Yeah that is typical also, turn it round on me. Yeah I don't know you, but the only reason you havn't shown everyone your true colours is because I havn't asked you any questions. We've all seen muslims on here "giving it the mouth etc", but when confronted with a logical argument and streight to the point questions they dance around the subject etc etc.
I'm not going to reply anymore - and the typical thing you would say now is that I'm not going to because I have in some way 'lost' the argument- well thats not it, but you are simply not worthy of my time.
Goodbye.



who said i was muslim??? just shows how stereotypical you are n yea, u hv lost the argument...u never win arguments by insulting people...how rude
lalabo
who said i was muslim??? just shows how stereotypical you are n yea, u hv lost the argument...u never win arguments by insulting people...how rude


bold: I have no idea who said that.

People like you have a problem with people being stereotypical, and yes it isn't nice being judged for something before people get to know you. However stereotypical images don't come from nowhere.

EDIT- if you were trying to imply that I called you a muslim, I think you'll find I didn't. So don't take offense, I didn't call you a muslim.
Reply 71
mel0n
:\ And why? I can't get my head around which comes first because to me they appear to be hand in hand.

:colondollar:


surely thought, because your always thinking about what you say. and also you have to be able to think about language to learn how to say the words correctly.
Reply 72
mathperson
bold: I have no idea who said that.

People like you have a problem with people being stereotypical, and yes it isn't nice being judged for something before people get to know you. However stereotypical images don't come from nowhere.

EDIT- if you were trying to imply that I called you a muslim, I think you'll find I didn't. So don't take offense, I didn't call you a muslim.


i am not offended u called me muslim, tht isnt a bad thing....but i think ull find tht u did imply very strongly tht i was and dont lie...u soo thought i wz muslim......im just sayin...u have the right to believe wt u want to believe....and so do they....just leave them alone....people lyk you make me ashamed of this country
lalabo
i am not offended u called me muslim, tht isnt a bad thing....but i think ull find tht u did imply very strongly tht i was and dont lie...u soo thought i wz muslim......im just sayin...u have the right to believe wt u want to believe....and so do they....just leave them alone....people lyk you make me ashamed of this country


BOLD: Show me a quotation when I said you were a muslim, if you can't then end this part of the conversation.

Yes, they have the right to believe what they want. People like me make you ashamed of this country, what because I'll say the truth, streight down the line? Do terrorists make you ashamed of this country, and what about the people who let them live here?
Reply 74
mathperson
BOLD: Show me a quotation when I said you were a muslim, if you can't then end this part of the conversation.

Yes, they have the right to believe what they want. People like me make you ashamed of this country, what because I'll say the truth, streight down the line? Do terrorists make you ashamed of this country, and what about the people who let them live here?



umm u wanted a quotation...."Yeah I don't know you, but the only reason you havn't shown everyone your true colours is because I havn't asked you any questions. We've all seen muslims on here "giving it the mouth etc", but when confronted with a logical argument and streight to the point questions they dance around the subject etc etc."

u did iply i wz musli....n for the record i am totally 100% terrorism....but u no wt else im against.....racist people lyk u.....honestly....now i feel lyk ive wasted my time on you...because its lyk talking to a brick wall....n honestly....i cnt change u...but i can say tht u r very wrong to b stereotypical the way u r...but if thts how u want ot live ur life...thts ur decision. btw...i think the best thing tht ever happened to the UK is the cultural diversity...because without that..we wudnt have many things lyk decent doctors...n learning new concepts and being more open minded..which u obviously dnt have....one more point...terrorism is wrong...but not every muslim is a terrorist...just lyk not every german person is a nazi...dude ur messed up...seriously....

P.S. what happened to u not replying nemore because i am a "waste of time"
lalabo
umm u wanted a quotation...."Yeah I don't know you, but the only reason you havn't shown everyone your true colours is because I havn't asked you any questions. We've all seen muslims on here "giving it the mouth etc", but when confronted with a logical argument and streight to the point questions they dance around the subject etc etc."

u did iply i wz musli....n for the record i am totally 100% terrorism....but u no wt else im against.....racist people lyk u.....honestly....now i feel lyk ive wasted my time on you...because its lyk talking to a brick wall....n honestly....i cnt change u...but i can say tht u r very wrong to b stereotypical the way u r...but if thts how u want ot live ur life...thts ur decision. btw...i think the best thing tht ever happened to the UK is the cultural diversity...because without that..we wudnt have many things lyk decent doctors...n learning new concepts and being more open minded..which u obviously dnt have....one more point...terrorism is wrong...but not every muslim is a terrorist...just lyk not every german person is a nazi...dude ur messed up...seriously....

P.S. what happened to u not replying nemore because i am a "waste of time"


I do apologise, but I have alot of trouble understanding slang and abbreviations.

The quotation doesn't suggest that I said you were muslim.
You are 100% terrorism, what so you are a terrorist?
Why is what I'm saying rascist, Islam isn't a race :confused: (typical,again).

EDIT- and what do you mean when you say I'm 'messed up'?
Reply 76
mathperson
I do apologise, but I have alot of trouble understanding slang and abbreviations.

The quotation doesn't suggest that I said you were muslim.
You are 100% terrorism, what so you are a terrorist?
Why is what I'm saying rascist, Islam isn't a race :confused: (typical,again).

EDIT- and what do you mean when you say I'm 'messed up'?


i made a typing error there...i meant to say i am 100% against terrorism...as any normal human being would say

umm....u seriously need to stop callin me typical...cz its rude, have sum decency please...and also...this whole islam thing you've gt going on is mostly as you'll find because of the arab population, arab IS a race, therefore you are being racist...seriously its not hard to understand....n honestly...i never knew tht britain had ppl lyk you in it...it makes me feel sick...i have nothing left to say to you..except that there is good and bad in everything....you should think about which one of those categories you're in b4 u worry about which one other epople are in...
The thought comes first. Language is a social tool; how can we develop language before we have intelligent things to say?

In addition, empirical support comes from study upon study in psychology demonstrating intelligent use of pointing and gestures in preverbal infants. Inference is a general feature of human cognition, and this comes first.
Reply 78
I have recently been in debate over this particular topic and it definitely seems to be coming to the surface again in the world of evolutionary psychology and speaking from a psychological point, I think that - like most people - thought has to come first for us to even understand the basic fundamentals of language and expression before we can even venture towards such things in our language development meaning our thought base has to be more enhanced to cope with such cognitive processes like speech. I recently spotted this "equation"; "faulty language = faulty thinking" however I feel things are quite the opposite. There is no language without thought. :smile:

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