"Archbishop Vincent Nichols attacks NHS over compassion"

There's quite a difference between a (student) nurse-led pre-admissions clinic consultation and a doctor-led one...

I am aware of that, even though i had my own one to one time, doesn't mean i was aware of the other members of staff what they had to do. A quick squeeze of the hand, or a smile can make a massive difference

Of course it can, and that's just something that should be natural as a human being.

However, you can smile all you like, it's not going to stop someone in mid-flow about all the medical problems they've ever had and how you are the only doctor who's going to be able to sort everything out... In fact smiling probably makes that worse

Good point, but i guess it's debatable whether small acts of compassion such as the ones you noted will have a considerable effect upon someone in a critical condition.

In his statement, the archibishop aknowledges that most people are grateful for the compassion shown by the NHS, but it's simple stories of doctors in some hospitals not acting with compassion that leads him to the conclusion that the NHS as a whole needs to act with more compassion. So I guess that would raise the question as to why the entire NHS should be attacked when most of the time, doctors do act with compassion.

No it won't cure them..blatently. However when it comes down to compassion and care, as much as you have a job to do and make sure it gets done, its doing it WITH compassion and care. Ie when doing a catheterisation, being aware of the patients dignity, privacy, maybe for those having long term catheters. When breaking bad news, doing it appropiately- just explaining what you're doing and why whilst you're doing it can help ease the paient and let them feel incontrol of what is happening. You don't have to spend an extra 5 minutes sitting down with them and having a cup of tea

This from the catholic church, whose compassion extends to dealing sensitively with people going through serious difficulties in their lives by forcing them to do hail mary's and confess, damning people to eternal damnation for any number of reason, and extending about as much compassion to those critical of them as the Romans did to Jesus.

Maybe he should get his own house in order before trying to attack others.

*sigh* Never mind. If you think that we all just whack catheters in with the curtains open and no explanation, or run round our ward round saying "Hi, you've got cancer, bye," my going over it again and again is not going to change your mind.

I doubt you'll find many people on here who disagree with you about treating patients with care and dignity. It's just not always as easy as you might think.

Maybe you should stop stereotyping a whole organisation that has brought far more comfort and help to people than you ever will.

And for the record, most people who have confessed their sins and received absolution are glad to say their penance in gratitude. Those who don't like it tend to move on to other pastures.

did i say this is what i think everyone or even doctors do? Please don't jump to assumptions

I was making the point as much as its ahrd to make time for patients and delivery the best care and treatment you can, what you can do- do it right. Believe it or not a lot of professionals do forget to close the curtains when helping a patient get changed, and will leave a patient on a commode as they've gone on their break-

Its also important to bare in mind, many religions have a spectrum of beliefs, from fundamental to liberal- different catholics hold different views, it's very common

Sigh. You really like care models and ICE and theory etc don't you?? The central tenent of Catholic faith is basically the Pope is infallible and what he says should be obeyed. There is plainly not much if any scope for teaching of other interpretations. Catholics who do what they like are well aware of the 'rules' and willingly choose to do otherwise, thats got nothing to do with interpretation - thats them saying, well in this case my religion is not compatible with my best interests.

No it won't cure them..blatently. However when it comes down to compassion and care, as much as you have a job to do and make sure it gets done, its doing it WITH compassion and care. Ie when doing a catheterisation, being aware of the patients dignity, privacy, maybe for those having long term catheters. When breaking bad news, doing it appropiately- just explaining what you're doing and why whilst you're doing it can help ease the paient and let them feel incontrol of what is happening. You don't have to spend an extra 5 minutes sitting down with them and having a cup of tea

However, you can smile all you like, it's not going to stop someone in mid-flow about all the medical problems they've ever had and how you are the only doctor who's going to be able to sort everything out... In fact smiling probably makes that worse

Maybe you should stop stereotyping a whole organisation that has brought far more comfort and help to people than you ever will.

It's also caused far more tragedy, broken up far more families, and killed far more people both indirectly and directly than I ever will.

So I dare say we're about even.

It's also caused far more tragedy, broken up far more families, and killed far more people both indirectly and directly than I ever will.

So I dare say we're about even.

I think Helen & I certainly would consider those sorts of things as just being professional rather than especially compassionate!

Doing core jobs in a compassionate & caring way is very doable & adds minimal time. But it's the patient/relative expectations & blurred lines of what they consider the doctors job to be at any specific moment & what we consider our job priorities that the grey comes in as to whether we're compassionate enough perhaps?


So my examples:
Preadmissions clinic
- Patient: So now I'm going to find out & have re-explained everything about why i'm having this operation & what will happen while I'm in hospital. It's really important that doctor has lots of details about everything in my life. While I'm here I also want to ask the doctor about these other health things too...
- Doctor doing preadmissions clinic: Are there anaesthetic issues at present? Is their drug chart complete?

Hospital at night cover
- Patient: Oh, I have a really itchy foot right now - why doesn't the doctor care enough to come & prescribe me my usual emollients right now?
- Patient relatives: I'd really like to rediscuss all these complex issues with the doctors looking after my relative right now, just so it's all really clear to me, I can ask lots of questions and vent.
- Nursing staff projecting their fears: Oh dear, this patient doesn't look very well at all. It says here in the notes from the Palliative Care Consultant that they're for 'palliative care and symptom control only'. They don't have any symptoms right now. But all their family are here. I should probably bleep the on-call doctor because they should do something.
- Doctor doing night cover: I'm trying to keep patients, who are for have helpful medical interventions that we can offer, alive overnight. Then hopefully tomorrow any more subtle issues can be addressed by the regular team who know them, including specialists as appropriate, when the hospital has a vaguely sensible staffing level again. Oh - there goes the crash bleep again...




Medical student sitting - only feedback I got was that I was too nice.

The Catholic Church has very serious problems, yes. But surely this doesn't mean that organised religion is always wrong!

The Catholic Church has very serious problems, yes. But surely this doesn't mean that organised religion is always wrong!

I fail to see how it can be right. The main reason for the support of organised religion is that it teaches people morals, and yet religion is responsible for more deaths than anything else.

Society can exist perfectly well without religion. Godless people do not descend into uncivilised hordes incapable of differentiating right from wrong. They just have less reasons to kill each other.

I fail to see how it can be right. The main reason for the support of organised religion is that it teaches people morals, and yet religion is responsible for more deaths than anything else.

Society can exist perfectly well without religion. Godless people do not descend into uncivilised hordes incapable of differentiating right from wrong. They just have less reasons to kill each other.