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I don't like meat but I do like fish. I only eat ethically sourced fish though.
Reply 41
nolongerhearthemusic
Not if they think "vegetarian" can include eating fish, which they obviously do (and they're wrong).


That's an interesting argument (thats not sarcastic).

Nynyflower
I don't like meat but I do like fish. I only eat ethically sourced fish though.


What, where they aren't killed?
thejonsmith
I don't get vegetarianism - full stop.

So, the animal doesn't get eaten by you.

It gets eaten by someone else.

Also, where's the line between animals being sentient beings and becoming a fruitarian - where fruit and vegetables are living things, so pulling them up is "murdering" them.

If people object to the conditions the animals live in - there are organisations such as P.E.T.A who campaign for animal rights etc. If an animal isn't mistreated before it's death, I don't see what's so "wrong" about carnivorism.

Plus, I agree, you cannot be a pescetarian and still maintain your argument that eating an animal is morally wrong, because they're sentient beings. A fish has just as much right to be alive as a cow. We're not talking about eating intelligent animals such as dolphins either; cows, chickens and fish are all fairly low on the IQ scale. Pigs, however, are apparently moderately intelligent.


Crackling > moderate intelligence.
Sometimes these things are to do with disagreements over farming. Fish grow in the wild naturally, and are then 'caught'. This is a fairer life for the fish when compared to, say, chickens, which are born and fed genetically modified products, kept in dark places for a fragment of their lives and fattened beyond a natural weight for the purpose of being eaten.
thejonsmith
What a ridiculous argument. :rolleyes:

Couldn't think of anything to actually back up your point of view then? Surprising.

Also - fun fact for you; the Nazis introduced a lot of measures to ensure no-one was cruel to animals etc, that turned out pretty well, eh?


Well, my argument's obviously completely gone over your head, since my point is neither that people should be vegetarians or that it should be legally enforced. I'm a meat eater for goodness sakes.

My points were
-that the argument 'if you don't eat it someone else will' is rubbish, as you wouldn't eat humans just because everyone else is.

-that you yourself make value judgements about what one should or shouldn't kill and eat. If you decide that you don't want to kill and eat humans for moral reasons, why shouldn't others decide the same thing about animals?

-and if you decide that it's ok to eat animals but not people, why shouldn't others decide that it's ok to eat fruit and veg but not animals?
Reply 45
JW92
Regardless of the many excuses pescetarians come up with, the reality is that fish aren't mammals or birds, they can't make adorable noises and they aren't fluffy. It's the same reason why most meat-eaters in this country won't eat cats and dogs. Cuteness counts.

I don't think it's down to cuteness, but because they are more human in their behaviour. Cows for example could just as well be inanimate, they show very few human-like characteristics. Whilst there are animals that do: cats, dogs, monkees, etc. I think we are squeamish about this because we see in them human characteristics, but of course this can be overcome by ritual such as that dictated by culture, so in China this doesn't prevent them eating such animals.
At a speculative guess as to why we don't relish the prospect of eating a human, this could be a genetic code caused by evolution to protect our gene's.
CapturedSoul
Because it's f*cking hypocritical, that's why.

So? Why does it even matter to you, it's their decision. You come across like a c*nt.
Reply 47
JW92
It seems like quite a sound argument to me.


No, it doesn't.

It's just sensationalised "omg ud be ok with eatin humans then omg!!!111" as if that's anything like the same thing, whatsoever

People campaigning for animal rights need to do just that. If you don't eat meat as a result of the conditions the animals live in, fair enough

But to compare the fact that people eat meat and that not bothering me to "oh but what if humans were being eaten" is just cringeworthy.
Reply 48
CommonPeople
Sometimes these things are to do with disagreements over farming. Fish grow in the wild naturally, and are then 'caught'. This is a fairer life for the fish when compared to, say, chickens, which are born and fed genetically modified products, kept in dark places for a fragment of their lives and fattened beyond a natural weight for the purpose of being eaten.

This, although not all fish are caught in the wild, you do get farmed fish, like Salmon for example.
Ricky116
That's an interesting argument (thats not sarcastic).


If they've got the definition of the word wrong, then they aren't being hypocritical because the intent is not there. I think most of them have the definition wrong.
Komakino
This, although not all fish are caught in the wild, you do get farmed fish, like Salmon for example.


Ah yes, I was generalising again:facepalm: But you get the idea.
Reply 51
I follow a pescatarian diet and honestly, I can't justify it. On becoming a "vegetarian", my mother's condition was that she will allow me to not eat meat, but whilst I am still living at home I have to eat fish and I respect that. She is the one who cooks our families meals and I realise that I already make it inconvenient enough for her by refusing to eat meat, without adding fish to the "forbidden list". I don't eat fish when I go out to restaurants or am cooking for myself and as soon as I leave home I fully intend on giving it up completely but for the moment, I am sticking to my mums wishes.
Reply 52
thejonsmith
No, it doesn't.

It's just sensationalised "omg ud be ok with eatin humans then omg!!!111" as if that's anything like the same thing, whatsoever

People campaigning for animal rights need to do just that. If you don't eat meat as a result of the conditions the animals live in, fair enough

But to compare the fact that people eat meat and that not bothering me to "oh but what if humans were being eaten" is just cringeworthy.


It wasn't sensationalism. It was a hypothetical analogy that showed flaws in your reasoning.
Reply 53
missygeorgia
Well, my argument's obviously completely gone over your head, since my point is neither that people should be vegetarians or that it should be legally enforced. I'm a meat eater for goodness sakes.

My points were
-that the argument 'if you don't eat it someone else will' is rubbish, as you wouldn't eat humans just because everyone else is.

-that you yourself make value judgements about what one should or shouldn't kill and eat. If you decide that you don't want to kill and eat humans for moral reasons, why shouldn't others decide the same thing about animals?

-and if you decide that it's ok to eat animals but not people, why shouldn't others decide that it's ok to eat fruit and veg but not animals?


Well, then you missed my argument, quite clearly

Instead of jumping down my throat with that ridiculous attempt at calling me out - consider this. These animals, in the awful conditions - where are they currently? Are they being bred specially to be eaten, are they in slaughterhouses? Yes.

The reason "someone else will" is because these places, and that system, will continue to process meat as long as there's people that eat meat, not eating it in protest has value in nothing but taking the moral highground, as not enough people will stop eating meat for the trade in animals as food to stop

And as for moral reasons - we're part of humanity.

Animals are animals, I'm sorry if people feel they're as important as humans. Common "food" animals, bred for that purpose, have always sustained humans. Cannibalism on the other hand.. it's our own species.

I didn't say they couldn't decide for themselves, I just said it's a fairly pointless stand to take, for those that decide not eating meat will somehow help the animals in question. What does that achieve that campaigning for an animal right's organisation does not?
Reply 54
Fish are not furry or cute or cuddly. And they taste GOOD...
Reply 55
JW92
It wasn't sensationalism. It was a hypothetical analogy that showed flaws in your reasoning.


Unfortunately, it wasn't.

Try thinking about the systems in place for processing common "food" animals, such as cows, chickens etc into the raw meat product humans currently consume

And then ask yourself if you or me not eating the animal will stop it being slaughtered and sold for profit as part of that industry

And then, finally, ask yourself if that is anything like saying "but what if the government started killing and eating humans"
Reply 56
mmmmmm, giant shrimps, *drools* a'la Homer.
Reply 57
Fish are not cute or cuddly or furry. And they taste good. So it's fine to eat them.
Reply 58
Komakino
I don't wholly avoid meat because it's a sentient life form because I feel the jury is still out on quite how sentient, it's more because of the treatment of the animals, battery farming I wholly oppose. I eat fish but not fish that is farmed like Salmon, etc.


Out of interest, how do you feel about the by-catch that is a product of most commercial long line/net fishing? There's a ridiculous amount of fish (including sharks, rays and dolphins) that are caught in order to catch a bucket of prawns or produce the average can of tuna.
Reply 59
CommonPeople
Ah yes, I was generalising again:facepalm: But you get the idea.

Yes yes, but I was merely pointing out it's not clear cut. If one uses that argument they must attend to ensure the fish they eat is not farm produced.

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