I understand what you mean, and yes the fact that I live in a council house stereotypes me into the working class. But that is merely a stereotype. It is a fact that class is determined by profession, a librarian is a middle-class profession therefore I am middle-class. There are very few middle-class jobs that don't gain enough income to get a mortage/buy a house - but a librarian job happens to be one of them. Teaching, too - usually.

I'm not trying to be something I'm not, if I pretended I were working class that would be being something I'm not - living in a certain house does not define my 'class'. If you're talking sociologically, then a whole range of 'stereotypes' come into it - and living in a council house is the only one I conform to, ...I conform to far more middle-class stereotypes, so why would I be working class?

It's not a "fact" that class is determined by profession. Perhaps government databases use that criteria but that does't mean it is the common or only way of determining.

Personally i think that culture defines class more accurately.

i.e. you have those sort of families who's parents own a double glazing company... or own some kind of manual labour company... they tend to still have a culture that's similiar to the poorer population. for example, cream leather sofas, a huge flat screen TV and fake-wood cabinets.

Reply 63

SweetEve

7

gapyahdilema

No you're just being a vagina. Quit quoting me, because every post you make just smacks of annoying socialists I know in real life.

Now, now, stop insulting vaginas, some are actually useful.

Reply 64

GapYear01

9

Taste of Honey

I understand what you mean, and yes the fact that I live in a council house stereotypes me into the working class. But that is merely a stereotype. It is a fact that class is determined by profession, a librarian is a middle-class profession therefore I am middle-class. There are very few middle-class jobs that don't gain enough income to get a mortage/buy a house - but a librarian job happens to be one of them. Teaching, too - usually.

I'm not trying to be something I'm not, if I pretended I were working class that would be being something I'm not - living in a certain house does not define my 'class'. If you're talking sociologically, then a whole range of 'stereotypes' come into it - and living in a council house is the only one I conform to, ...I conform to far more middle-class stereotypes, so why would I be working class?

I dont agree with it being fact. I'm not going to pretend that i have read up a lot on Karl Marx or any other person like this- except for political ideology because I havent. But I believe that when it comes to things like class it has become so skewed over centuries that now it is down to how the individual see's it. I believe that most people base class on money first and foremost and then they bring into how the person reacts etc. To your question, I think you are working class because of where you live and how much money your family earn.
By the way, the last bit is in no way meant to offend you or anything like that. If you think it is offensive then I will happily edit it :smile:

Reply 65

edanon

11

Taste of Honey

My family have a small 14-inch TV, green fabric sofas, and nearly all our furniture is antique...

Just further proof that class definitions are most certainly sketchy. You can't fit a whole socio-economic group into one class depending on one or two values.

Where did i say that your family is related to the family i described above? I was trying to point out that "money can't buy you class", or in other words... culture is a better definition.

Reply 66

fink

edanon

It's not a "fact" that class is determined by profession. Perhaps government databases use that criteria but that does't mean it is the common or only way of determining.

Personally i think that culture defines class more accurately.

i.e. you have those sort of families who's parents own a double glazing company... or own some kind of manual labour company... they tend to still have a culture that's similiar to the poorer population. for example, cream leather sofas, a huge flat screen TV and fake-wood cabinets.

This, unless you are looking at it based on the bare bones of the employment structure "class" in the UK is defined by the fact people identify themselves through certain cultural factors pertaining to a stereotype.

Reply 67

gapyahdilema

SweetEve

Now, now, stop insulting vaginas, some are actually useful.

Just not hers.. :wink:

Reply 68

DJ AgnieszkaA

15

hehe
i would say somewhere between Bard and Pilgrim.

Economy class

Working class.

If you have 2.14 kids, a labrador and a volvo, you're middle class. If you wear a monocle, you're upper class.

If you or any of your family have been or know anyone who has been on Jeremy Kyle, you are the underclass, the dregs of society.

Reply 71

GapYear01

9

Taste of Honey

So your point is similar to mine in that, simply because I live in a council house, I am not necessarily working class?

No no, I'm not in the least offended. As I say, working class has always seemed hip to me - with the Beatles and all, I just feel like it would be me offending the working class if I were to refer to myself as such. People are always shocked, to say the least, to learn that I live in a council house. To someone who doesn't know, I'm every inch the average middle-class girl, living in a posh snobby city with a posh, Southern accent, with a share horse that I ride in a navy riding waistcoat... :x I was even privately educated briefly. If, in real life, I mentioned to someone that I was 'working class' they would quite frankly either laugh in my face, or possibly be offended themselves if they were actually working class.

It seems that due to my 'middle-class values' yet lack of money I am doomed to forever be inbetween classes, not accepted in either one. :frown:

Oh well, as I say - I hate the whole class system anyway.

I do see where you are coming from and I think that the reason the class system is so wrong is that there are a lot of 'in between' people such as yourself. Thats why I think people like us can totally disagree on classes. Just out of curiosity, what values would you say the 'upper class' have? And would you say that the working class were generally socialist due to the welfare etc?

Reply 72

edanon

11

Taste of Honey

So your point is similar to mine in that, simply because I live in a council house, I am not necessarily working class?

Yes.... but also your mom (or dad?) being a librarian doesn't make you middle class.

Reply 73

SweetEve

7

gapyahdilema

Just not hers.. :wink:

lol.
I am still interested in finding out what "class" I would be categorised under, as it seems to have something to do with ones parents. Maybe it is to difficult to fit every person into a nice cookie cutter shape and some cannot be labelled.

Reply 74

gapyahdilema

SweetEve

lol.
I am still interested in finding out what "class" I would be categorised under, as it seems to have something to do with ones parents. Maybe it is to difficult to fit every person into a nice cookie cutter shape and some cannot be labelled.

People will label others all the time. All my friends seem to think I am utterly middle class, but I see myself as classless because I don't believe in it.

Reply 75

acas13

8

I wouldn't say class is solely defined on profession.

My Dad is a very high achieving doctor, earning a six figure salary. However, he grew up on a council estate in the east-end of Glasgow, and still maintains a very many working class traits. He has no interest in art or fashion, buys big leather sofas, expensive cars and giant TVs but still clads his home in cheap laminate flooring. He hates champagne and has irn-bru for breakfast. There is no way he is upper middle class.

My Mum on the other hand is a nurse, earning about 20k a year, which by the argument that class is determined by profession would make her lower-middle (?) class. However, she was privately educated, had a nanny, and lived in an manor house. Her father was a founding member of the BMJ and was knighted. My mother's mother was the daughter of a Lord... the right honourable miss etc etc. Mum is most definetely upper class.

Reply 76

SweetEve

7

gapyahdilema

People will label others all the time. All my friends seem to think I am utterly middle class, but I see myself as classless because I don't believe in it.

True, good to see another person deny the cookie cutters. In doing that, you may have more "class" then the ones that need to label people under classes. I don't think I fit into a mould easy and that is why they have not tried to place a label on me in this thread. Or they don't like difficult challenges. People have to start realising that parents may only contribute seed and fertiliser and that many other things in life help to mould the person they will become.

Reply 77

SweetEve

7

acas13

I wouldn't say class is solely defined on profession.

Good example, now lets see what cutter/mould they can place you into. From the sounds of it, you do not believe in this either. Or do you?

Reply 78

acas13

8

Taste of Honey

Ah but that is actually exactly what I'm talking about. It is the profession of your parents, generally. So while your father has worked his way into a different class, he's not because he remains what he grew up as - socially, at least. Economically is a different matter. It is the profession of your parents/guardians that essentially determines class, usually. :wink: