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Reply 20
qasman
yes, because racists should really have a voice in society :rolleyes:

racists SHOULD have a voice, we should be free to ignore them. At least when a racist declares themself a racist you know they're a moron not worth wasting your time on.
Aj12
Labeling someone an idiot for their political views is stupid and counter to the ideals of a free democratic society. The BNP and their policies should be brought into the public eye as much as possible the same as every other party. We must debate their policies in an intelligent forum and counter their policies with rational debate rather than condemnation. This is the way we will move forward as a society. No idea should be cast aside with out proper debate.

Bring it into the public eye debate the issue and put it to bed rather than merely calling the supporters idiots.


Have you ever tried intelligently debating with BNP supporters?

I kid you not, I have had a BNP supporter claim that their party is left wing. They banned me from commenting on their official Facebook page because they couldn't take the heat of debate. 90% of them are monumentally stupid. The remaining 10% are educated but sadly have somehow internalised racist views from somewhere.

But the worst BNP supporters, the WORST, are those who bang on about being indigenous. There isn't really such a thing as an indigenous Briton. How can there be? We had the celts, then the romans, then the vikings, then the saxons, then the normans, and you can't forget about the Irish, Welsh, Scots and probably quite a few other ethnicities I've missed out.

Indigenous is BNP code for white. They are a party supported mainly by spackers susceptible to their propaganda. They are a disgraceful party.
Reply 22
Aj12
Labeling someone an idiot for their political views is stupid and counter to the ideals of a free democratic society. The BNP and their policies should be brought into the public eye as much as possible the same as every other party. We must debate their policies in an intelligent forum and counter their policies with rational debate rather than condemnation. This is the way we will move forward as a society. No idea should be cast aside with out proper debate.

Bring it into the public eye debate the issue and put it to bed rather than merely calling the supporters idiots.

Indeed. Nick Griffin did more damage to the BNP going on Question Time than he ever would have had he not been allowed to go on. His views should undergo a thorough cross-examination, because they simply don't hold up.
Broderss
That doesn't justify people's extreme (and hypocritical) attitudes toward BNP supporters.

People seem to despise racists just because they are told to. I'm not saying people shouldn't have their own opinions about others' attitudes, but racists do not deserved to be called 'scum' just because they have uncommon views. In my opinion nobody deserves to be called 'scum', although rapists and child molesters are the most deserving.

A liberal and tolerant society should not have such extreme views about others, especially if it is trying to promote liberalism and tolerance (which anti-fascism groups claim to do).



But racists are allowed to call foreign people scum/treat them badly for something that is out of their control? Being a racist is a choice. People don't choose the colour of their skin.

Anyone that hates a person for reason other than their actions/character doesnt deserve anything.
I'm so disappointed, I thought OP would just say 'and if not why not?!?!' to follow on from the title.
Reply 25
Eveiebaby
But racists are allowed to call foreign people scum/treat them badly for something that is out of their control? Being a racist is a choice. People don't choose the colour of their skin.

Anyone that hates a person for reason other than their actions/character doesnt deserve anything.


Mecca strictly forbids all non-muslims from entering the city, so should America not allow Muslims to build a mosque near ground zero? After all, they don't treat non-muslims equally and they have no tolerance so why should America give them freedoms or treat them equally?

You can't discriminate against someone because they do the same, then claim you want to promote equality and tolerance.
Reply 26
ilickbatteries
Have you ever tried intelligently debating with BNP supporters?

I kid you not, I have had a BNP supporter claim that their party is left wing. They banned me from commenting on their official Facebook page because they couldn't take the heat of debate. 90% of them are monumentally stupid. The remaining 10% are educated but sadly have somehow internalised racist views from somewhere.

But the worst BNP supporters, the WORST, are those who bang on about being indigenous. There isn't really such a thing as an indigenous Briton. How can there be? We had the celts, then the romans, then the vikings, then the saxons, then the normans, and you can't forget about the Irish, Welsh, Scots and probably quite a few other ethnicities I've missed out.

Indigenous is BNP code for white. They are a party supported mainly by spackers susceptible to their propaganda. They are a disgraceful party.


The BNP is more left wing than it is right, though. Many of its policies are socialist and many could be attributed to being left. It does have a few (perhaps more prominent) fascist policies but really the BNP is socialist and arguably left wing.
Reply 27
qasman
yes, because racists should really have a voice in society :rolleyes:


Of course they should, don't be ridiculous. I assume you are against fascism, however your comment was very fascist. I do not think you should have a voice in society because you are evidently hypocritical and thus clearly rather dense.
Reply 28
Krakatoa
no, being black does


Broderss
The BNP is more left wing than it is right, though. Many of its policies are socialist and many could be attributed to being left. It does have a few (perhaps more prominent) fascist policies but really the BNP is socialist and arguably left wing.



I'm sure you could find some NSDAP policies to support a case for the Nazi party being left wing also?

They are a fascist party, they are extremely right wing, IMO. (I know the two dimensional scale of wings is a bit outdated)

left: those who support varying degrees of social or political or economic change designed to promote the public welfare

I fail to see how an ex-NF marcher, holocaust denier and confirmed racist can be left wing. How can a racist be wanting to promote public welfare?
Eveiebaby
But racists are allowed to call foreign people scum/treat them badly for something that is out of their control? Being a racist is a choice. People don't choose the colour of their skin.

Anyone that hates a person for reason other than their actions/character doesnt deserve anything.


Don't deserve what, exactly? Can you elaborate?

You enter dangerous territory when you restrict people's rights because you disagree with their views, no matter how odious.
Margaret Thatcher
Don't deserve what, exactly? Can you elaborate?

You enter dangerous territory when you restrict people's rights because you disagree with their views, no matter how odious.



For example with British born ethnic minorities...
By infringing other people's rights by their "get them out, they dont belong here behaviour" ,the racists would be effectively restricting the rights of those legal British citizens to live without being threatened, being treated fairly in the place they have grown up, workplace educationm etc.

Why should racists have any more rights than the people they marginalise? It's like rewarding a child for bad behaviour. Or locking up the owner of the shop who got robbed rather than the shoplifter.

It doesnt make sense.
Broderss
Mecca strictly forbids all non-muslims from entering the city, so should America not allow Muslims to build a mosque near ground zero? After all, they don't treat non-muslims equally and they have no tolerance so why should America give them freedoms or treat them equally?

You can't discriminate against someone because they do the same, then claim you want to promote equality and tolerance.



Islam has nothing to do with race. Religion is a totally different argument. I'm sure you could go to Mecca if you wanted to convert to Islam. Being white (I assume you are) isn't a barrier.

I dont promote any such hypocritical values. I do however think that just because one country does something that is morally wrong, it doesnt suddenly make it ok for you to do it as well. It's a bit childish and reeks of two wrongs dont make a right.

I work on the principle that every person is different. I simply don't understand how you can hate a whole group(s) of people without knowing each and every one.
I ask you. Broderss. Do you consider yourself a racist? And don't you believe that there is variation in character from person to person regardless of race?
Reply 33
ak56
In ultra left-wing, university academic circles being even a conservative makes you a social pariah, but in normal British society does supporting the BNP make one a social pariah?

Indeed, in polite company it would certainly be cause for disagreement and debate but does the act of openly supporting the BNP make a person universally dispised and avoided?


I lol'd at that bit, yeah I've found that out here myself. You tend to get slated on here if you're anything further right than a socialist.

It depends. Personally, I don't support and agree with the BNP at all, and I can't see myself agreeing with someone who does. However, there are people who support them, so I suppose in their company, it would be fine.
Reply 34
qasman
yes, because racists should really have a voice in society :rolleyes:


Yes they should, right or wrong anyone has the right voice their opinions.
Discrimination is bad. So is Discriminating against people who discriminate like racists.
I may not agree with BNP views but I will always defend there right to voice their opinions.

In-fact by discriminating against the BNP your only strengthening their cause and proving many of their points.
BNP has such a bad reputation, yet no one has the same hostility to black nationalist groups or any other nationalist group.
It just proves how many easily a lot of you are easily swayed by the media that you are willing to physically hurt these people.

Edit: Also if people don't like freedom of speech feel free to go to a country which doesn't have it, I'm sure you will quickly change your views.
Broderss
Yes. It's a sad time for humanity when those with differing views to the majority become despised outcasts unworthy of equal rights.


agreed this is supposed to be a liberal site yet id bet there are websites dedicated to hating black people who have threads just like this one.

Such a bunch of hypocrites on this site at times

Redreynard
racism/bnp support is widespread in many social groups. but not reported by the liberal foreign-loving media.
but whatever your politics, don't get aggressive or violent. such behaviour is very uncouth.


supporting the BNP does not make you racist.

DavidR1991
It's entirely justified when the views of these people are attempting to alter the 'equal rights' of other groups. It's a lesser of two evils - and at least BNP supporters can change. The people the BNP generally attack can't (e.g. anyone of 'non British' descent)


ahh so now its no longer lets rise above them and let the law deal with them for anything illegal they may do but now lets stamp them out and deny them thier democratic rights merely because of the way they few things

qasman
yes, because racists should really have a voice in society :rolleyes:


yes they should - look up democracy it says everyone gets thier say not everyone gets thier way providing i like it

Aj12
Labeling someone an idiot for their political views is stupid and counter to the ideals of a free democratic society. The BNP and their policies should be brought into the public eye as much as possible the same as every other party. We must debate their policies in an intelligent forum and counter their policies with rational debate rather than condemnation. This is the way we will move forward as a society. No idea should be cast aside with out proper debate.

Bring it into the public eye debate the issue and put it to bed rather than merely calling the supporters idiots.


Thank you - some bloody intelligence at last
the views of the bnp will prevail. because in the end people will get more and more frightened as society disintegrates into lots of little groups that all have contempt for each other.
history teaches over and over again the same lessons. a big confident nation/empire grows, and because rich and successful attracts people from many nations. then when the rich land is no longer so rich these people squabble and fall out. and we go back, after a lot of bloodshed, to the smaller groups. then later another empire grows and the people come together once more.
balkans is a good example.
lots of little countries.
then one country - a fairly successful country - yugoslavia.
then civil war and once more lots of little countries.
another example would be rwanda.
or the roman empire.
I don't know whether it makes them a social pariah but it does make them an absolute plonker, and after they admit they vote BNP people tend to see them as somewhat of a joke.
In my experience, the BNP supporters i've met don't even have a clue what the BNP actually stands for. I find it increasingly difficult to have tolerance for such people. They may not be social pariahs, but they're certainly damn fools.
Reply 39
DH-Biker
If I found out one of my mates supported the BNP, I'd punch him, then make him a social outcast.


Sure you would mate.

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