The Israel-Palestine Conflict Mk.III

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13601251

Second flotillia is to leave Turkey made up of around 15 ships in the second half of june.

This won't end well

Reply 1984

Original post by Aj12

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13601251

Second flotillia is to leave Turkey made up of around 15 ships in the second half of june.

This won't end well

I remember reading an article about the flotilla incident last year. It mentioned a thing or two about the Turkish Navy, and how, according to various Turkish representatives, it was going to play a sort of escort role in a future flotilla attempt.

This is Turkey's chance to deliver, however. If it manages to solve the Israel-Palestine conflict and align itself with the EU/NATO over Libya etc, I can't see its EU membership being rejected. But its current pussy-esque stance toward the ongoing uprisings across the Middle East must change if it ever wishes to become an actual regional power, and not a gimmick.

(edited 12 years ago)

Original post by Stalin

I remember reading an article about the flotilla incident last year. It mentioned a thing or two about the Turkish Navy, and how, according to various Turkish representatives, it was going to play a sort of escort role in a future flotilla attempt.

This is Turkey's chance to deliver, however. If it manages to solve the Israel-Palestine conflict and align itself with the EU/NATO over Libya etc, I can't see its EU membership being rejected. But its current pussy-esque stance toward the ongoing uprisings across the Middle East must change if it ever wishes to become an actual regional power, and not a gimmick.

I doubt they will go through with it. But say they did would Israel still be willing to stop the flotilla?

Reply 1987

Original post by Aj12

I doubt they will go through with it. But say they did would Israel still be willing to stop the flotilla?

From what I've gathered, the Turkish Navy largely outnumbers its Israeli counterpart.

I can't see this happening at all, though - especially the Turkish Navy involvement. I expect the US to give the Turks a good talking to on behalf of Israel.

Reply 1988

Original post by Stalin

From what I've gathered, the Turkish Navy largely outnumbers its Israeli counterpart.

I can't see this happening at all, though - especially the Turkish Navy involvement. I expect the US to give the Turks a good talking to on behalf of Israel.

Makes you wonder what the Turks would do in the face of massive popular support or this flotilla. And also what the Israelis will do. Surely they cannot get away with intercepting and possibly shooting more Turkish civlians

Reply 1989

Original post by Aj12

Makes you wonder what the Turks would do in the face of massive popular support or this flotilla. And also what the Israelis will do. Surely they cannot get away with intercepting and possibly shooting more Turkish civlians

Those are good points. However, I'd argue that massive popular support is the flotilla; whether or not Erodgan goes through with it is a different story.

The US will undeniably attempt to block such a move by pressuring the Turkish government into submission, but due to the sensitivity of the topic, and Turkey's growing influence (see Iran), it would be perfectly understandable to see why Turkey's may give the US the one finger victory salute.

If the Turkish Navy is deployed, I can't see the Israeli Navy stopping it from reaching Gaza. And so, the US will be dragged into yet another conflict, in order to appease AIPAC, which begs the question: will the US attempt to stop the flotilla?

What is equally as important, however, is the EU's position.

Reply 1990

Original post by Stalin

Those are good points. However, I'd argue that massive popular support is the flotilla; whether or not Erodgan goes through with it is a different story.

The US will undeniably attempt to block such a move by pressuring the Turkish government into submission, but due to the sensitivity of the topic, and Turkey's growing influence (see Iran), it would be perfectly understandable to see why Turkey's may give the US the one finger victory salute.

If the Turkish Navy is deployed, I can't see the Israeli Navy stopping it from reaching Gaza. And so, the US will be dragged into yet another conflict, in order to appease AIPAC, which begs the question: will the US attempt to stop the flotilla?

What is equally as important, however, is the EU's position.

Israel seems to be pursuing a to the hell with the consequences policy right now. Maybe they feel they could stop the flotilla even with Turkish naval units behind it. The Turks will be reluctant to get into a war over something this trivial so could just escort the flotilla to Israeli waters then stop there.

By conflict do you mean an armed one between Turkey and the US? I mean Turkey has one of the biggest armies in Nato the US would be hard pressed to fight a war there as well. Especially considering the state of their economy and the fact their government may well shutdown in the coming months...

The EU foreign policy is pathetic, it resembles a toothless dog, what makes you feel it is important?

Reply 1991

T-ros

13

Original post by Aj12

Israel seems to be pursuing a to the hell with the consequences policy right now. Maybe they feel they could stop the flotilla even with Turkish naval units behind it. The Turks will be reluctant to get into a war over something this trivial so could just escort the flotilla to Israeli waters then stop there.

By conflict do you mean an armed one between Turkey and the US? I mean Turkey has one of the biggest armies in Nato the US would be hard pressed to fight a war there as well. Especially considering the state of their economy and the fact their government may well shutdown in the coming months...

The EU foreign policy is pathetic, it resembles a toothless dog, what makes you feel it is important?

EU has no foreign policy :smile:

Reply 1992

Original post by T-ros

EU has no foreign policy :smile:

Well, it likes to pretend it does :tongue:

Reply 1993

T-ros

13

Original post by Aj12

Well, it likes to pretend it does :tongue:

Yeah true

Reply 1994

Original post by Aj12

Israel seems to be pursuing a to the hell with the consequences policy right now. Maybe they feel they could stop the flotilla even with Turkish naval units behind it. The Turks will be reluctant to get into a war over something this trivial so could just escort the flotilla to Israeli waters then stop there.

If the Turkish government endorse a second flotilla, the Turkish Navy could very well be involved. Nevertheless, I don't think the Turkish Navy would simply escort the flotilla to Israeli waters and stop there, because we'd have another deja vu, only this time, more people may be butchered by Israeli commandos.

By conflict do you mean an armed one between Turkey and the US? I mean Turkey has one of the biggest armies in Nato the US would be hard pressed to fight a war there as well. Especially considering the state of their economy and the fact their government may well shutdown in the coming months...

Turkey may boast a potent force, but it doesn't have any power projection capabilities, ergo it's useless against the US.

If the Turkish government reject US calls to stop the flotilla, I don't see why the US wouldn't side with Israel. But, again, I'd be very reluctant to see Turkey do such a thing.

The EU foreign policy is pathetic, it resembles a toothless dog, what makes you feel it is important?

The EU is important to Turkey - that's why it matters.

Reply 1995

Original post by Stalin

If the Turkish government endorse a second flotilla, the Turkish Navy could very well be involved. Nevertheless, I don't think the Turkish Navy would simply escort the flotilla to Israeli waters and stop there, because we'd have another deja vu, only this time, more people may be butchered by Israeli commandos.

Turkey may boast a potent force, but it doesn't have any power projection capabilities, ergo it's useless against the US.

If the Turkish government reject US calls to stop the flotilla, I don't see why the US wouldn't side with Israel. But, again, I'd be very reluctant to see Turkey do such a thing.

The EU is important to Turkey - that's why it matters.

I think if under any circumstance more Turks died Turkey would have to at least be appearing to do something against Israel. Can't imagine how the population would react were the same to happen again.

I can never tell with Obama where he stands. He could well decide to stay out of it. Did the US make any kind of comment or say anything about the last flotilla and Israeli attacks?

I wonder how much longer the EU is going to string Turkey along with regards to membership. So that link may well begin to lose its importance. Especially if Turkey starts looking to the Middle East rather than Europe. Although thats a whole other debate and thread

Reply 1996

CODKING

9

Original post by thisisnew

Well obviously they're not common knowledge so I ask again, run me through these commonly known laws and how they refute the notion that all citizens of Israel are equal before the law and how they mean Israel is not a leader in terms of rights and freedoms in the region.

Try these for starters:

1.

No bilingual signs at your airports (even the Welsh get that!)

2.

More than 50% of israeli jews regard a female jew marrying an Arab man as “a betrayal of the jewish country and people”

3.

It took a full 59 years before an israeli Arab muslim occupied a seat in the cabinet

4.

When an Arab was appointed as science minister a senior Jewish parliamentarian, Esterina Tartman, described the appointment as a "gigantic axe blow to the tree trunk of Zionism and a Jewish state''

5.

Another Right-wing MP demanded that the new minister be subjected to extra security vetting because, unlike a Jewish Israeli, he cannot be assumed to be a trusted guardian of the country's scientific knowledge.

6.

A government commissioned inquiry concluded that "government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory".

7.

The US state department says Israeli Arabs face "institutional, legal, and societal discrimination".

8.

More than half of Israeli-Arab families are living in poverty, compared to about 15% of Jewish Israeli families, and the gap is widening.

9.

Israeli-Arab communities have received less than 5% of government development funding each year.

10.

The US state department says Israeli Arabs are "underrepresented in most fields of employment".

11.

One particularly controversial law is the 2003 Citizenship Law, under which Palestinians from the West Bank or Gaza - women under 25 and men under 35 - who marry Israelis are not usually allowed to move to Israel.

12.

Palestinians over those ages are granted only temporary residency, not citizenship.

All that and I didn't insult your intelliegence or debating skills once. Let's see how you get on Mr. New.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 1997

CODKING

9

Original post by accesstohe

LOL at posting aljazeera links

lol at you lolling

Reply 1998

Original post by Aj12

I think if under any circumstance more Turks died Turkey would have to at least be appearing to do something against Israel. Can't imagine how the population would react were the same to happen again.

I can never tell with Obama where he stands. He could well decide to stay out of it. Did the US make any kind of comment or say anything about the last flotilla and Israeli attacks?

I wonder how much longer the EU is going to string Turkey along with regards to membership. So that link may well begin to lose its importance. Especially if Turkey starts looking to the Middle East rather than Europe. Although thats a whole other debate and thread

Obama's been having a few talks with Netanyahu lately, and as a result, has been brown-nosing Israel. He's pretty adamant that the US-Israel relationship is unshakeable.

The Turks want to join the EU - I can't see them looking to the undeveloped Middle East.

Reply 1999