The Israel-Palestine Conflict Mk.III

Original post by zohaib93

irgun began it

nope

Reply 301

Original post by Balagan

nope

yes, because till the jews arrived in palestine there was not a problem, the jews cam and so did the problems, jews cause problems wherever they go, is it any wonder hitler wanted rid?

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 302

Democracy

20

Can I draw everyone's attention to Rule V? The purpose of this thread is not to provide a platform for the dissemination of racist nonsense. Offenders will be warned and repeat offenders will be banned.

Please do report all offensive posts using the report button. Thank you.

Reply 303

Suetonius

9

Original post by Balagan

I think he was referring to Israeli arabs, who do indeed enjoy more civil and democratic rights in Israel then any other country in the middle east (at lest untill the recent revolutions).

You are reffering to palestinians who live in the West Bank and Gaza, the latter being ruled by a theocratic dictatorship that has sworn to kill every Jew in Israel. There is a differance.

It wasn't me who conflated the two. He referred to "the arabs" as though they were a single entity.

On paper, it's true that Israeli Arabs have a high standard of living and civil/democratic rights etc. but discrimination against them is still high. Especially in recent years, with Lieberman's proposed "pledge of allegiance", and so on.

And I'm not just referring to the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza. I'm also referring to those who are still living in exile in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq and numerous other countries, who most certainly have a right of return.

I know perfectly well that Gaza is ruled by a racist, theocratic militia. You're pushing an open door with me if you say that Hamas has had a detrimental effect on the state of affairs. But regardless, none of that justifies the starving of resources for the average Palestinian, the seizing of homes in East Jerusalem and the West Bank (which, where Israeli settlers aren't already pillaging and plundering, is still under the administration of Mahmoud Abbas' dictatorship - and that's what it is, a dictatorship), the bombing of schools and hospitals, the use of white phosphorous over a high concentration of civilians, the construction of illegal walls, barriers and checkpoints inside internationally-recognised Palestinian land, etc.

Reply 304

Original post by Suetonius

On paper, it's true that Israeli Arabs have a high standard of living and civil/democratic rights etc. but discrimination against them is still high. Especially in recent years, with Lieberman's proposed "pledge of allegiance", and so on.

I agree, I am not denying that unfortunately racism and discrimination exists, but in the law they have more rights then in any other arab state.

Original post by Suetonius

And I'm not just referring to the Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza. I'm also referring to those who are still living in exile in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq and numerous other countries, who most certainly have a right of return.

thing is, the majority of these palestinians will never be allowed to return to Israel, because doing so would undo Israel as a majority jewish state. the palestinian leadership should really stop propogating this myth of 'the right of return' because no sane Israeli government would ever allow it. Similarly, the arab states should do more to accomodate these refugees in their own countries and turn them into full citizens. Instead they use them as political pawns against israel and stick them in refugee camps (its been 60+ years for god's sake).

Original post by Suetonius

I know perfectly well that Gaza is ruled by a racist, theocratic militia. You're pushing an open door with me if you say that Hamas has had a detrimental effect on the state of affairs. But regardless, none of that justifies the starving of resources for the average Palestinian, the seizing of homes in East Jerusalem and the West Bank (which, where Israeli settlers aren't already pillaging and plundering, is still under the administration of Mahmoud Abbas' dictatorship - and that's what it is, a dictatorship), the bombing of schools and hospitals, the use of white phosphorous over a high concentration of civilians, the construction of illegal walls, barriers and checkpoints inside internationally-recognised Palestinian land, etc.

I agree with most of this, especially in regards to the settlers and the west bank.

However you need to remember that for Israel, the security of its 7 million citizens will always come first. That is the reason for the Gaza blockade and for the wall (which has reduced suicide bombings drastically since it was built).

Reply 305

the americans armoured and supported jewish terrorists so with what right do america now condemn hamas and hezbollah, america is the biggest supporter of terrorism and israel is the biggest perpetrator of terrorism, the antics of the irgun should be indefinately used against the jews so they can have a taste of their own medicine for once.

Reply 306

Hantheman

7

Palestine now have a football team. So can we not just resolve this with a kick-about Terry Pratchett style?

Reply 307

CODKING

9

It’s all very well that the jews/zionists on here have zohaib93 as their pet anti-semitic nutter. His views however, cannot be a million miles away from Palestinians who see no progress towards a true Palestinian state. All they see is overwhelming Israeli power, unquestioning US backing and an impotent UN. It’s also all they’ve seen for more than two generations now.
So arrogant has Israel become, so full of a sense of self righteousness, that its Prime minister thinks it’s perfectly in order to phone a world leader to tell them off for supporting UN resolutions regarding the settlements. Well I’m glad she told him where to get off.
Israel will keep building settlements so that giving up a few in some future ‘peace talks’ will look like a splendid gesture. It’s the same with land for peace; take enough land then offer a few scraps back and suddenly you are Mr. Reasonable. Posters on here and the israeli regime must really think they’ll get away with this cheating. They won’t.

Reply 308

Original post by CODKING

It’s all very well that the jews/zionists on here have zohaib93 as their pet anti-semitic nutter. His views however, cannot be a million miles away from Palestinians who see no progress towards a true Palestinian state. All they see is overwhelming Israeli power, unquestioning US backing and an impotent UN. It’s also all they’ve seen for more than two generations now.
So arrogant has Israel become, so full of a sense of self righteousness, that its Prime minister thinks it’s perfectly in order to phone a world leader to tell them off for supporting UN resolutions regarding the settlements. Well I’m glad she told him where to get off.
Israel will keep building settlements so that giving up a few in some future ‘peace talks’ will look like a splendid gesture. It’s the same with land for peace; take enough land then offer a few scraps back and suddenly you are Mr. Reasonable. Posters on here and the israeli regime must really think they’ll get away with this cheating. They won’t.

just because the jews cannot discuss how the irgun used terrorism and how the rest of the jews supported the irgun, and then carried out countless massacres which led to 'israel' being created, does not make me anti semetic,

on another note there is no such thing as democracy because if democracy really existed then israel would have had to stop the illegal settlements expansions because there have been more resolutions regarding the settlements voted 14-1 in favour of the resolutions than one could count, but hey just because the usa like the jews a bit too much, so much so that they cannot see past their jewish tinted glasses and see what is right and what is wrong, if teh arab countries could just being so greedy with money and just cut off americas oil from the middle east for the forseeable future, i am sure when america has to choose between its economy and the jews, it certainly would be the economy. Alternatively iran coudl just dela with Israel, without Un backing, afterall if USA can act without UN backing in the Iraq war, surely Iran has every right to disregard the UN, especially a UN which is USA/jewish controlled, infact it isn;t a united natiosn really is it, its america-jews united

Reply 309

Original post by CODKING

It’s all very well that the jews/zionists on here have zohaib93 as their pet anti-semitic nutter. His views however, cannot be a million miles away from Palestinians who see no progress towards a true Palestinian state. All they see is overwhelming Israeli power, unquestioning US backing and an impotent UN. It’s also all they’ve seen for more than two generations now.
So arrogant has Israel become, so full of a sense of self righteousness, that its Prime minister thinks it’s perfectly in order to phone a world leader to tell them off for supporting UN resolutions regarding the settlements. Well I’m glad she told him where to get off.
Israel will keep building settlements so that giving up a few in some future ‘peace talks’ will look like a splendid gesture. It’s the same with land for peace; take enough land then offer a few scraps back and suddenly you are Mr. Reasonable. Posters on here and the israeli regime must really think they’ll get away with this cheating. They won’t.

I like the part where you completely ignore the responsibility the arab leaders have for today's mess.

Plus whats this about land for peace = a few scraps? Israel gave Egypt the whole of the sinai following the camp david accords. the sinai is about 1.5 times the size of Israel. 'a few scaps', yeah ok :rolleyes:

.

Israel also evacuated gaza as a gesture of good will, and in return got a hamas government and thousands of rockets on its head. Trust between parties needs to work both ways.

I would also like to add that you should really stop generalising all zionists as if they are all exactly the same. I would call myself a zionist because I believe Israel has the right to exist as a jewish state. I also believe Israeli citizens have the right to live in security and peace. I do not believe in any of this 'promised land' nonsense, neither do I support the westbank settlers; in fact I see some of them to be just as dangerous to Israel's future as Hamas.

finally, I have met a few palestinians in my life, surprisingly enough none of them called for Israel to be nuked or denied/endorsed the holocaust. It is quite safe to say the Zohaib93 is an antisemitic psychopath (or just a really sad troll)

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 310

Original post by Balagan

I like the part where you completely ignore the responsibility the arab leaders have for today's mess.

Plus whats this about land for peace = a few scraps? Israel gave Egypt the whole of the sinai following the camp david accords. the sinai is about 1.5 times the size of Israel. 'a few scaps', yeah ok :rolleyes:

.

Israel also evacuated gaza as a gesture of good will, and in return got a hamas government and thousands of rockets on its head. Trust between parties needs to work both ways.

I would also like to add that you should really stop generalising all zionists as if they are all exactly the same. I would call myself a zionist because I believe Israel has the right to exist as a jewish state. I also believe Israeli citizens have the right to live in security and peace. I do not believe in any of this 'promised land' nonsense, neither do I support the westbank settlers; in fact I see some of them to be just as dangerous to Israel's future as Hamas.

finally, I have met a few palestinians in my life, surprisingly enough none of them called for Israel to be nuked or denied/endorsed the holocaust. It is quite safe to say the Zohaib93 is an antisemitic psychopath (or just a really sad troll)

its all good saying you are against the west bank settlements, but in the real world actions matter not words, and the jews continue to build illegal settlements and to avoid punishment make thye USA veto every single resolution condemning the jews for continuing to build illegal settlements despite the fact the resolutions are always voted 14 to 1 in favour, on another note i would just like to say that hamas are not doing anything worse than what the irgun did, the irgun was never really condemned so sseiing the usa and the jews condemning hamas just shows the double standards possessed by both the jews and the americans

Reply 311

Original post by zohaib93

its all good saying you are against the west bank settlements, but in the real world actions matter not words, and the jews continue to build illegal settlements and to avoid punishment make thye USA veto every single resolution condemning the jews for continuing to build illegal settlements despite the fact the resolutions are always voted 14 to 1 in favour, on another note i would just like to say that hamas are not doing anything worse than what the irgun did, the irgun was never really condemned so sseiing the usa and the jews condemning hamas just shows the double standards possessed by both the jews and the americans

I dont think I was talking to you, nazi boy!

Reply 312

Original post by Balagan

I dont think I was talking to you, nazi boy!

if by nazi you mean condemning jews building illegal settlements which continue to grow in the west bank, then i am proud to be one. i have no problems with jews in israel, but the jews (especially the women) in the illegal settlements are volatile bitches and thats not 'nazi' but its the truth, you should try seeing the situation regarding the illegal jews in the west bank, oh i forgot the IDF don't allow reality to be seen by the outside world y normal means so unorthodox methods have to be used, and unlike me you don't sound like the type risk your life to find out the truth instead of beleiving american-jewish PR bullsit. i have been there seen it, when you can say the same then talk kiddo, now go on scoot off and watch some cartoons.

Reply 313

CODKING

9

Original post by Balagan

I like the part where you completely ignore the responsibility the arab leaders have for today's mess.

Plus whats this about land for peace = a few scraps? Israel gave Egypt the whole of the sinai following the camp david accords. the sinai is about 1.5 times the size of Israel. 'a few scaps', yeah ok :rolleyes:

.

Israel also evacuated gaza as a gesture of good will, and in return got a hamas government and thousands of rockets on its head. Trust between parties needs to work both ways.

I would also like to add that you should really stop generalising all zionists as if they are all exactly the same. I would call myself a zionist because I believe Israel has the right to exist as a jewish state. I also believe Israeli citizens have the right to live in security and peace. I do not believe in any of this 'promised land' nonsense, neither do I support the westbank settlers; in fact I see some of them to be just as dangerous to Israel's future as Hamas.finally, I have met a few palestinians in my life, surprisingly enough none of them called for Israel to be nuked or denied/endorsed the holocaust. It is quite safe to say the Zohaib93 is an antisemitic psychopath (or just a really sad troll)

That's all very well Balagan, but not really practical on here. Expanding settlements is a zionist aim and an arrogant offensive block to peace so I expose it as such. If you represent zionism lite, then whilst I respect your stance on a personal level, it can't really inform my comments on the general illegitimacy of israel's actions. I'm already treading on eggshells with the whole jew/zionist/non-jew zionist/israeli thing because there’s always someone who doesn’t like it. Incidentally, I didn’t see any jew/zionist/non-jew zionist/israeli correct Aeolus for his offensive generalisations.

Reply 314

Original post by zohaib93

if by nazi you mean condemning jews building illegal settlements which continue to grow in the west bank, then i am proud to be one. i have no problems with jews in israel, but the jews (especially the women) in the illegal settlements are volatile bitches and thats not 'nazi' but its the truth, you should try seeing the situation regarding the illegal jews in the west bank, oh i forgot the IDF don't allow reality to be seen by the outside world y normal means so unorthodox methods have to be used, and unlike me you don't sound like the type risk your life to find out the truth instead of beleiving american-jewish PR bullsit. i have been there seen it, when you can say the same then talk kiddo, now go on scoot off and watch some cartoons.

no, I am calling you a nazi because you denied the holocaust and then went on to defend Hitler, saying he was just 'defending germany from terrorist jews'. You also wish for Israel to be nuked off the map, and seem to get off on fantasising about the deaths of tens of millions of people. That is why I cant be bothered 'debating' with you - even the pro-palestinians on this board acknoledge that you are mentally deranged.

anyways your pathetic trolling schtick is really not worth my time nor anyone elses for that matter. bye!

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 315

Original post by CODKING

That's all very well Balagan, but not really practical on here. Expanding settlements is a zionist aim and an arrogant offensive block to peace so I expose it as such. If you represent zionism lite, then whilst I respect your stance on a personal level, it can't really inform my comments on the general illegitimacy of israel's actions. I'm already treading on eggshells with the whole jew/zionist/non-jew zionist/israeli thing because there’s always someone who doesn’t like it. Incidentally, I didn’t see any jew/zionist/non-jew zionist/israeli correct Aeolus for his offensive generalisations.

If expanding settlements is a zionist aim then why did Israel withdraw settlments from the sinai for peace, and then again from Gaza?
Funnily enough it was right wing arch zionist Menachem Begin who believed in leaving the Sinai, because he was seeking peace with Egypt. More recently Ariel Sharon, a far right loose cannon back in his day, believed that Israel should leave Gaza if this meant peace. Unfortunately, it didnt.

The settlment enterprise is whats called religious or messianic zionism - it doesnt represent zionism at large or as it was founded in the later ninteenth century.

In fact you would be surprised how many Israelis and zionists cant stand the settler enterprise. unfortunately they have a very tight grip on the current Right-wing Israeli government.

Reply 316

A Cat

3

BBC twists a murder to make it look like part of the conflict.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12721170

also the lolworthy "Israel disputes this".

Reply 317