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The Israel-Palestine Conflict Mk.III
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Original post by tehFrance
Is it me or is the "as well as 13 Israelis"in a smaller font that the rest of the article 
all 13 soldiers, so no, killing jewish soldiers efing about in gaza is not a crime
Original post by zohaib93
all 13 soldiers, so no, killing jewish soldiers efing about in gaza is not a crime
Congratulations on missing the entire point of the post, do you ever read?
Original post by CODKING
ISRAEL GETS GREEN LIGHT TO SLAUGHTER ANYONE AT ANY TIMEhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12971309
This is disgusting. It’s a mini holocaust denial by the jews, now endorsed by the jewish/zionist lawyer sent to investigate the savage behaviour of the IDF in Gaza. The israelis now want the report annulled and buried so they can deny the killings ever happened. America is said to be pleased by this obscene blatant re-writing of history, but what they really are is mighty relieved. Relieved they can carry on their unquestioning support of this murderous regime that now seems to be above any law. Goldstone is a mushroom of epic proportions and if he is still working for the UN, I hope they sack his greasy arse.
This is disgusting. It’s a mini holocaust denial by the jews, now endorsed by the jewish/zionist lawyer sent to investigate the savage behaviour of the IDF in Gaza. The israelis now want the report annulled and buried so they can deny the killings ever happened. America is said to be pleased by this obscene blatant re-writing of history, but what they really are is mighty relieved. Relieved they can carry on their unquestioning support of this murderous regime that now seems to be above any law. Goldstone is a mushroom of epic proportions and if he is still working for the UN, I hope they sack his greasy arse.
what the bloody hell are you talking about? Israel wants to deny the killings? re-writing of history? have you actually bothered to read the article you quoted?
Goldstone headed the investigation into 'cast lead' two years ago, which ended up declaring that Israel has intentionally targeted civillians and therefore committed war-crimes. In recent days he has argued that due to new evidence - which was recognised by a UN committee - if he would write the report again, he would change it completely. Israel, understandably, believes that due to this statement the former report is libellous. Why is this disgusting?
No one is denying that civillians were killed. No one is trying to re-write history. Goldstone is simply saying that he now reconsiders his position and declared that Israel never intentionally, as part of an army policy aimed weapons at civillians. This is as opposed to Hamas, who target civillians as a matter of policy.
Not even goin to bother with your 'jewish/zionist conspiracy' rant.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by CODKING
ISRAEL GETS GREEN LIGHT TO SLAUGHTER ANYONE AT ANY TIMEhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12971309
This is disgusting. It’s a mini holocaust denial by the jews, now endorsed by the jewish/zionist lawyer sent to investigate the savage behaviour of the IDF in Gaza. The israelis now want the report annulled and buried so they can deny the killings ever happened. America is said to be pleased by this obscene blatant re-writing of history, but what they really are is mighty relieved. Relieved they can carry on their unquestioning support of this murderous regime that now seems to be above any law. Goldstone is a mushroom of epic proportions and if he is still working for the UN, I hope they sack his greasy arse.
And before mods get the big stick out, it is 100% relevant that Goldstone is a jew and a zionist. Just like the lawyer the US navy used to legitimise the attacks on the aid ships was a jew and a zionist. Oh and while I’m on the subject the British ambassador to israel is a jew and the US ambassador designate to israel is a jew. No conspiracy of course, but if I were a Palestinian I wouldn’t think it was a coincidence or fair. Forgot the German ambassador...
This is disgusting. It’s a mini holocaust denial by the jews, now endorsed by the jewish/zionist lawyer sent to investigate the savage behaviour of the IDF in Gaza. The israelis now want the report annulled and buried so they can deny the killings ever happened. America is said to be pleased by this obscene blatant re-writing of history, but what they really are is mighty relieved. Relieved they can carry on their unquestioning support of this murderous regime that now seems to be above any law. Goldstone is a mushroom of epic proportions and if he is still working for the UN, I hope they sack his greasy arse.
And before mods get the big stick out, it is 100% relevant that Goldstone is a jew and a zionist. Just like the lawyer the US navy used to legitimise the attacks on the aid ships was a jew and a zionist. Oh and while I’m on the subject the British ambassador to israel is a jew and the US ambassador designate to israel is a jew. No conspiracy of course, but if I were a Palestinian I wouldn’t think it was a coincidence or fair. Forgot the German ambassador...
If you actually read the article you've posted a link to, you'll see that it contains this: "Mr Goldstone wrote that the Israeli investigations, which were recognised by a UN committee, indicated that "civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy". Did you get that: recognised by a UN committe-so it wasn't just Goldstone who recognised that the Israeli investigation showed no intention to target civilians.
I understand that you'd have preferred the article to say what you'd like to think, but it just doesn't.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Balagan
As a liberal zionist, I am quite conflicted about this.
On the one hand, I am glad to see that the PLO has finally realised that violence and terrorism will not get them anywhere. Similarly, I hope that this might urge the current Israeli government to act towards a peaceful settlement before its too late.
On the other hand, there are certain areas in Eastern Jerusalem that Israel will simply never give entirely to a future palestinian state, and it will not allow the UN to dictate this. A palestinian state purely based on the pre-67 lines is impossible without some adjustments. Furthermore, what does this mean in Gaza? The PLO cant talk for Hamas, and Israel will never negotiate with Hamas any way (as long as they call for the murder of all Jews in their charter, this is completely understandable).
On the one hand, I am glad to see that the PLO has finally realised that violence and terrorism will not get them anywhere. Similarly, I hope that this might urge the current Israeli government to act towards a peaceful settlement before its too late.
On the other hand, there are certain areas in Eastern Jerusalem that Israel will simply never give entirely to a future palestinian state, and it will not allow the UN to dictate this. A palestinian state purely based on the pre-67 lines is impossible without some adjustments. Furthermore, what does this mean in Gaza? The PLO cant talk for Hamas, and Israel will never negotiate with Hamas any way (as long as they call for the murder of all Jews in their charter, this is completely understandable).
No east jerusalem, no peace, end of.
Original post by Doubledog
Interesting "debate".
I'm glad that some of the ideas put forward for the resolution of conflict were'nt used during the cold war, because if they had been, none of us would be here now to read this thread.
"justice" is a meaningless term to a dead body.
I'm glad that some of the ideas put forward for the resolution of conflict were'nt used during the cold war, because if they had been, none of us would be here now to read this thread.
"justice" is a meaningless term to a dead body.
justice may mean nothing to dead body, but injustice is everything to a living body.
if we went by your principle there would be no war in iraq or afghanistan, get real and get a grip, enough of your double standards, israel is nothing special, it deserves to be nuclear attacked just like japan was, and its only a matter of time.
on another note those who build illegal settlements or live in illegal settlements fully well knowing they are against international rulings and two ICJ verdicts deserve no sympathy what so ever, they know the consequences fully well, they live in such settlements and build such settlements in palestinian lands fully well knowing that they are illegal, when the UN can't do anything becuase of american vetoes, then don't complain when hamas deal with it.
when the powers that be ignore israels illegal antics, then yes, i for one will not condemn the likes of hamas taking the law into their own hand, want to point fingers, point them at washington before you point them anywhere else.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by tehFrance
Well it would make sense for them to be Jews no? Zionist's though? I doubt they are.
it would make sense for israels ambassador to usa, germany britain etc to be jews, but not the other way around, thats just plain dodgy, but not half surprising. but then again you wouldn't understand such a concept.
Original post by buzzicon
If you actually read the article you've posted a link to, you'll see that it contains this: "Mr Goldstone wrote that the Israeli investigations, which were recognised by a UN committee, indicated that "civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy". Did you get that: recognised by a UN committe-so it wasn't just Goldstone who recognised that the Israeli investigation showed no intention to target civilians.
I understand that you'd have preferred the article to say what you'd like to think, but it just doesn't.
I understand that you'd have preferred the article to say what you'd like to think, but it just doesn't.
get your facts right the UN is standing by its report, any retraction of any comments or statement in the report must be addressed first to the UNHRC it must then be ratified by 66% of the GA before the UN will change its position, funny how goldstone, a south african, felt the need not to address this sisue at the UN, nor in a south african paper, but funnily enough in america, a nation which are a puppet of the jewish state.
when golstoen said, 'if i knew then what i know today then my report would have been different' he meant 'if i the american jewish allaince had pressurised bribed??? me then as much as now then my report would have been different
this is the american jewish alliance's pathetic attempt to derail the statehood of palestine at the UN under UNSCR 377 in september, sorry but the jewish states time is up, only a matter of months, and israel knows it
Original post by zohaib93
You are forgetting that no ordinary military action on israel is now possible, you may ask why? well ask double standards washington, who have fully prepared the jewish state to illegally occupy palestinian lands so yes nuclear attacks is now the only way to deal with israel, if you want to blame 'death of innocent civilians' then blame israel for defying international rulings and the ICJ verdict or double standards america for equipping the jewish state very well, for defy international rulings, what you don't do is blame iran for refusing to engage in more diplomatic games staged by the american-jewish alliance. Extraoridinary measures must take place, for 44 years the 'american-jewish diplomatic games' have yeilded zero, nothing, zilch for the palestinians so now iran isleft with no other choice other than ridding the problem at the very root, a case of needs must.
no land at all is better than illegal jewish occupation of land, you might not understand that concept, becuase its very easy sitting in a cosy chair hundreds or thousands of miles away telling us all about your moral high ground, and your 'human rights and humanity and innocent civilians' and whatnot, but the day foreign forces come and occupy your country, your streets, your home, then come and tell me all about your 'moral high gound' becuase then you might actually have a leg to stand out mate.
no land at all is better than illegal jewish occupation of land, you might not understand that concept, becuase its very easy sitting in a cosy chair hundreds or thousands of miles away telling us all about your moral high ground, and your 'human rights and humanity and innocent civilians' and whatnot, but the day foreign forces come and occupy your country, your streets, your home, then come and tell me all about your 'moral high gound' becuase then you might actually have a leg to stand out mate.
You avoided my question. Enough rambling, lets sort this out.
Given that nuking Israel would violate numerous resolutions and laws on territorial integrity, would you support the nuking of the country that nukes Israel?
And you talk about me sitting comfortably in my chair, what the hell are you doing? All you do is advocate nuclear war. Good one, big man. If you had any stones at all you'd be fighting Israel right now. Why aren't you, by the way?
Original post by tehFrance
I don't think you understood my post, I am not calling for all people in Gaza to be killed/nuked just relocated to the West Bank where the land that Israel has on that side is given back to them plus even more, so that the people of Gaza can live there in peace. This would in effect wipe out Hamas and cause them to be non-existent as they should be arrested or something during the transition process.
This creates a United Palestine which is not spilt in two. Israel would (in my vision) give aid and help build the United Palestine which would help ease tensions even more.
No killing of innocent people like now after rockets are fired and the IDF/IAF strike back.
Has this made it clearer? as it looks to me you didn't even understand my post the first time.
If you don't understand it this time I have no idea what to say as this is quite a good solution I thought as it reduces the deaths of innocents which are still building up in Gaza with each rocket being fired into Israel.
This creates a United Palestine which is not spilt in two. Israel would (in my vision) give aid and help build the United Palestine which would help ease tensions even more.
No killing of innocent people like now after rockets are fired and the IDF/IAF strike back.
Has this made it clearer? as it looks to me you didn't even understand my post the first time.
If you don't understand it this time I have no idea what to say as this is quite a good solution I thought as it reduces the deaths of innocents which are still building up in Gaza with each rocket being fired into Israel.
israel does not want gaza, what isarel wants is continued occupation of east jerusalem and the rest of the west bank, in return as a favour, hamas will continue their rocket attacks, afterall it would be rude nto to thank teh ejwish satte for its occupation.
Instead of withdrawing from the unstable gaza, why didn't the jews withdraw from the stable west bank? i will tell you, maybe becuase the jews knew that the west bank would have been able to run itslef smoothly and have a stronger foundation to claim statehood had isarel withdrawn from the west bank, something which jews do not want.
Instead the jews withdrew from gaza where they knew hamas would cause problem, which would strengthen the sly jewish plan that its palestinians who do not wnat peace, therefore more settlements would be built in the west bank, more occupation and more land grabbing. What a nice jewish game you played there, didnt go amiss though.
you build and you build but hamas will kill and kill, its the only way that its fair, becuase quite frankly becuase of american vetoes there is little else other than can be done to deal with these illegal settlements, palestinains can either statically watch the jews build on palestinian land, or they can take some hardline physical action, and don't pretend you would stand static if it was palestinians building illegally in tel aviv or some other israeli city, beucase you i and the world knows otherwise.
Original post by buzzicon
If you actually read the article you've posted a link to, you'll see that it contains this: "Mr Goldstone wrote that the Israeli investigations, which were recognised by a UN committee, indicated that "civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy". Did you get that: recognised by a UN committe-so it wasn't just Goldstone who recognised that the Israeli investigation showed no intention to target civilians.
I understand that you'd have preferred the article to say what you'd like to think, but it just doesn't.
I understand that you'd have preferred the article to say what you'd like to think, but it just doesn't.
Goldstone has gone back on what he reported and is now welcome in israel. Perfectly normal?
Original post by ForeverIsMyName
You avoided my question. Enough rambling, lets sort this out.
Given that nuking Israel would violate numerous resolutions and laws on territorial integrity, would you support the nuking of the country that nukes Israel?
And you talk about me sitting comfortably in my chair, what the hell are you doing? All you do is advocate nuclear war. Good one, big man. If you had any stones at all you'd be fighting Israel right now. Why aren't you, by the way?
Given that nuking Israel would violate numerous resolutions and laws on territorial integrity, would you support the nuking of the country that nukes Israel?
And you talk about me sitting comfortably in my chair, what the hell are you doing? All you do is advocate nuclear war. Good one, big man. If you had any stones at all you'd be fighting Israel right now. Why aren't you, by the way?
if you want to play it that way, then numerous resolutions and numerous laws were broken ON THE ILLEGAL WAR AND FALSE WMD CLAIMS MADE AGAINST IRAQ, so my answer is if you want to nuke the country that nukes israel, then military action should be taken against america who took military action against iraq on false grounds, who made FALSE claims against iraq, and waged an illegal war, a war which no one else approved apart from lapdog britain, and a war which the UN did not approve as bush provided no solid proof.
so deal with those who attacked iraq illegaly, first, and then you can talk. but hey i understand if you have the same double standards as most other westerners, its a common trait, hypocritcal by name, hypocritcal by nature, Its in your blood, you simply cannot change it.
Original post by Balagan
what the bloody hell are you talking about? Israel wants to deny the killings? re-writing of history? have you actually bothered to read the article you quoted?
Goldstone headed the investigation into 'cast lead' two years ago, which ended up declaring that Israel has intentionally targeted civillians and therefore committed war-crimes. In recent days he has argued that due to new evidence - which was recognised by a UN committee - if he would write the report again, he would change it completely. Israel, understandably, believes that due to this statement the former report is libellous. Why is this disgusting?
No one is denying that civillians were killed. No one is trying to re-write history. Goldstone is simply saying that he now reconsiders his position and declared that Israel never intentionally, as part of an army policy aimed weapons at civillians. This is as opposed to Hamas, who target civillians as a matter of policy.
Not even goin to bother with your 'jewish/zionist conspiracy' rant.
Goldstone headed the investigation into 'cast lead' two years ago, which ended up declaring that Israel has intentionally targeted civillians and therefore committed war-crimes. In recent days he has argued that due to new evidence - which was recognised by a UN committee - if he would write the report again, he would change it completely. Israel, understandably, believes that due to this statement the former report is libellous. Why is this disgusting?
No one is denying that civillians were killed. No one is trying to re-write history. Goldstone is simply saying that he now reconsiders his position and declared that Israel never intentionally, as part of an army policy aimed weapons at civillians. This is as opposed to Hamas, who target civillians as a matter of policy.
Not even goin to bother with your 'jewish/zionist conspiracy' rant.
Ratio of civilian deaths to IDF deaths 100:1 and you say that isn't deliberate? Nothing that I or anyone else put in front of you will make any difference will it? 100 to 1
Original post by zohaib93
<Snip>
Completely miss my point much.
Original post by tehFrance
Well it would make sense for them to be Jews no? Zionist's though? I doubt they are.
No it doesn't make sense for them to be jews, they will be bias, pro israel, pro promised land, pro national home for the jewish people etc. etc. It is all very cosy for israel and just a racket to anyone who wants a level playing field for Palestinians.
Original post by CODKING
Ratio of civilian deaths to IDF deaths 100:1 and you say that isn't deliberate? Nothing that I or anyone else put in front of you will make any difference will it? 100 to 1
no one knows for sure how many civillians were killed in the war - well over half of those killed were Hamas men. There were civillians who were killed from collateral damage, and there were others who died from the actions of individual soldiers (who were subsequently investigated). It is tragic, but it is not official Israeli policy to harm civillians - that is what Goldstone is now saying and that is why the Israeli government wishes the report to be scrapped.
No one here is trying to deny that many civillians died, neither is anyone trying to rewrite history.
(edited 13 years ago)
Taken from goldstones Washington Post article
'For example, the most serious attack the Goldstone Report focused on was the killing of some 29 members of the al-Simouni family in their home. The shelling of the home was apparently the consequence of an Israeli commander’s erroneous interpretation of a drone image, and an Israeli officer is under investigation for having ordered the attack. While the length of this investigation is frustrating, it appears that an appropriate process is underway, and I am confident that if the officer is found to have been negligent, Israel will respond accordingly.
please note this jew killed 29 people by shelling a house and the terms and excuses used in this article are 'errenuous' and 'neglible', why the petty excuses for the jews? If you really want to paly the game this way, then in my opinion the fogel murders were 'negligent', nothing more nothing less.
'For example, the most serious attack the Goldstone Report focused on was the killing of some 29 members of the al-Simouni family in their home. The shelling of the home was apparently the consequence of an Israeli commander’s erroneous interpretation of a drone image, and an Israeli officer is under investigation for having ordered the attack. While the length of this investigation is frustrating, it appears that an appropriate process is underway, and I am confident that if the officer is found to have been negligent, Israel will respond accordingly.
please note this jew killed 29 people by shelling a house and the terms and excuses used in this article are 'errenuous' and 'neglible', why the petty excuses for the jews? If you really want to paly the game this way, then in my opinion the fogel murders were 'negligent', nothing more nothing less.
Original post by Balagan
no one knows for sure how many civillians were killed in the war - well over half of those killed were Hamas men. There were civillians who were killed from collateral damage, and there were others who died from the actions of individual soldiers (who were subsequently investigated). It is tragic, but it is not official Israeli policy to harm civillians - that is what Goldstone is now saying and that is why the Israeli government wishes the report to be scrapped.
No one here is trying to deny that many civillians died, neither is anyone trying to rewrite history.
No one here is trying to deny that many civillians died, neither is anyone trying to rewrite history.
official or inofficial, the point being the jewish regime fully well knows and subtly orders such actions, the usa supplies the weapns to carry such antics out, no sympathy for the jewish state, after the gaza war there is no longer any sympathy for any attacks by hamas upon israel, as israel still hasn't paid for its gaza antics, i am sure hamas will stop once they have has their full revenge, ie 1400 israeli deaths, like for like, equality and all that.
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