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DEMOTED For Not Backing Gay Marriage

Demoted for not backing gay marriage: housing manager's pay slashed for criticising new law on Facebook

Daily Mail
A housing manager has been demoted, and his salary slashed, after he criticised a controversial new gay rights law.

Adrian Smith, a Christian, was found guilty of gross misconduct by his publicly funded housing association for saying that allowing gay weddings in churches was ‘an equality too far’.

He posted the comment in his own time, on his personal page on the Facebook website, which could not be read by the general public.
But after a disciplinary hearing, he was downgraded from his £35,000-a-year managerial job to a much less senior £21,000 post and avoided the sack only because of his long service.

Mr Smith, 54, is now taking the association to court, arguing that his punishment was out of proportion and his right to free speech was ignored. Friends said last night the father of two had been ‘shocked and distressed’ by his treatment and would now face financial hardship.

Campaigners attacked the housing association’s decision the latest in a series of cases in which Christians have clashed with employers as a ‘complete over-reaction’ by an organisation ‘drenched in political correctness’.

Mr Smith has worked for 18 years for Trafford Council and Trafford Housing Trust, which manages more than 9,000 homes in Sale, Greater Manchester.

But he now finds his career in tatters over a comment he wrote on his personal Facebook page one Sunday morning in response to a BBC story headlined ‘Gay church “marriages” get go-ahead’. The story referred to Government plans to lift the ban on homosexual couples holding civil partnerships in churches and other religious settings.

A few hours later, one of his Facebook friends, a work colleague whose identity is not known to The Mail on Sunday, posted: ‘Does this mean you don’t approve?’

The following evening after work, Mr Smith, who attends an evangelical church in Bolton, responded: ‘No, not really. I don’t understand why people who have no faith and don’t believe in Christ would want to get hitched in church.

‘The Bible is quite specific that marriage is for men and women. If the State wants to offer civil marriages to the same sex then that is up to the State; but the State shouldn’t impose its rules on places of faith and conscience.’

Lawyers for Mr Smith, whom friends describe as affable and non-confrontational, say his comments were merely expressing an ‘honest belief’ based on his Christian faith.





The man can believe whatever he wants to believe in, marriage should be between a woman and a man anyway. :rolleyes:

Persecution of Christians, pure and simple. It is time Christians start standing up and protesting their ill treatment. I hope he wins big damages.
(edited 12 years ago)

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I very much doubt we're hearing the full story here.
Reply 2
It's a double-edges sword. He is entitled to his own opinion (we all are), but the media definitely drives what we should and shouldn't believe. The above is political correctness gone mad, yet again.

I just don't understand why the church (or any other religious institution, for that matter) are against gay and lesbian marriages. We are all people. People are generally attracted to other people, so who cares if that other person is the same sex as you or not?
Reply 3
Plenty of people who have no faith get married in church because it looks nice, i don't see those, straight couples being hounded. It's about time people stopped worrying about who is sticking their penis into who and perhaps exercised some of those Christian values that we hear so much about.
can't say I give a **** if some christian **** suffers for his irrational views.
‘The Bible is quite specific that marriage is for men and women. If the State wants to offer civil marriages to the same sex then that is up to the State; but the State shouldn’t impose its rules on places of faith and conscience.’


I am neither homophobic nor religious but I find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with this statement. However, all religions are currently banned from carrying out gay marriage ceremonies, although blessings are permitted. It is a requirement of civil partnerships that there is no religious content (the same requirement is also stipulated for civil marriages).

So long as the proposed law is merely allowing churches to perform gay weddings, and doesn't force any religion to provide them, I am 100% in favour of it.
Reply 6
The point is that he works for a public body. As such, anything he says under his own name online is associated with that public body. This is nothing new - it's the same reason why teachers shouldn't put photos from drunken nights out on Facebook or why militant fascists would probably be better off not mentioning this in the 'political views' section if they also happen to run nurseries.

It is illegal for a public body in the UK to discriminate against someone on the basis of sexual orientation, and as an extension of this, if you say anything discriminatory while representing that public body (which, rightly or wrongly, you do when posting on your own personal Facebook account), you are doing something similar. How many gay people would feel comfortable applying for council housing in this area knowing that someone in charge of its allotment had a problem with them? Whatever his private views are, he has a duty to uphold the values of the people he works for in public - and because this is a public sector organisation, where's 'public' and where's 'private' becomes a bit more blurred.
Original post by kerily
The point is that he works for a public body. As such, anything he says under his own name online is associated with that public body. This is nothing new - it's the same reason why teachers shouldn't put photos from drunken nights out on Facebook or why militant fascists would probably be better off not mentioning this in the 'political views' section if they also happen to run nurseries.

It is illegal for a public body in the UK to discriminate against someone on the basis of sexual orientation, and as an extension of this, if you say anything discriminatory while representing that public body (which, rightly or wrongly, you do when posting on your own personal Facebook account), you are doing something similar. How many gay people would feel comfortable applying for council housing in this area knowing that someone in charge of its allotment had a problem with them? Whatever his private views are, he has a duty to uphold the values of the people he works for in public - and because this is a public sector organisation, where's 'public' and where's 'private' becomes a bit more blurred.


This. Exactly. +1
Reply 8
Original post by SwingOnTheSpiral88
can't say I give a **** if some christian **** suffers for his irrational views.


It's irrelevant whether or not you agree with his views. He is still entitled to have them and still entitled to express them. So long as his views did not get in the way of him doing his job properly I see no reason why he should have been punished for them. And yes there is the issue that he does work for a public body as others have pointed out, although I can't help but think that the demoting of this guy for whatever he said in private would show the public body in an equally bad light.
(edited 12 years ago)
Debbie Gorman, a neighbourhood manager at the association, said the comment could be viewed as homophobic and had interpreted the comment as “gay people are not as equal as people who are not gay,” the Daily Mail reports.


That's not how I've interpreted the comment though. He clearly stated that civil marriage is okay. His point was about separation of church and state - the state should not be allowed to force us to think, or believe, in a certain way. That is the situation in China, North Korea and the novel 1984.
Original post by limetang
It's irrelevant whether or not you agree with his views. He is still entitled to have them and still entitled to express them. So long as his views did not get in the way of him doing his job properly I see no reason why he should have been punished for them. And yes there is the issue that he does work for a public body as others have pointed out, although I can't help but think that the demoting of this guy for whatever he said in private would show the public body in an equally bad light.


yeah true perhaps he shouldn't be demoted for having an unpopular view, but since it's such a stupid, brainwashed view I still don't care that it happened.
Christian "persecution" would be arriving at a guest house having pre-booked and being told that they don't take Christians.
Christian "persecution" would be not being allowed to get married because they are Christian.

I wish Christians would grow up and stop shouting "persecution!" just because someone has criticized their ridiculous, outdated, intolerant, bigoted views on homosexuality and told them they're not allowed to discriminate on the basis of their personal prejudices, religiously inspired or otherwise.

And on this case, I completely agree with kerily's post above. :smile:
Reply 12
Not sure if being demoted was justified, but he is a moron who doesn't understand this new legislation. I'm getting really ****ed off with people who can't grasp this very simple thing. So many arguments against this law are based on a misunderstanding of it.

Adrian Smith

If the State wants to offer civil marriages to the same sex then that is up to the State; but the State shouldn’t impose its rules on places of faith and conscience.

They are not imposing gay marriages on religious organisations, the plan only is that they will permit them to perform gay wedding ceremonies. It's the complete opposite of imposing their rules on them. The current law is imposing their rules on churches because currently churches or any other religious establishments are not allowed to perform gay weddings even if that organisation believes they should be allowed under the rules of their religion. This will change this so that religious organisations have more freedom because now they will be legally allowed to do this.

If he has a problem with a church performing gay weddings, take it up with that church, because they are the ones that have decided to do it, not the government.

Maybe he actually got demoted for being an idiot who shouts his opinion about things he hasn't even read properly.
(edited 12 years ago)
Obviously he's completely misunderstood the situation, but he is entitled to an opinion, no matter how unpopular it is. I suppose I'd agree more with the demotion if he'd been expressing his views at work where it's neither relevant nor professional, but on his own Facebook, out of work hours? Now more than ever people need the money they're earning, and it's unfair that his employer is penalising him for something that really shouldn't be any of their business.
By all means, gay marriage should legally be allowed to be carried out in a church however it should be entirely at the churches discretion. I.e. gay couples shouldn't be allowed to bring legal action against a church that denies their marriage request.

DISCLAIMER: I am strongly against the existence of religion :colonhash:
Reply 15
The regulation to allow the registration of civil partnerships in religious premises are not due out until later on this year, after the govt has finished analysing the results of the consultation which ended on the 23rd June. CPs are always non religious and these regs don't change that. The only difference is that CP will be allowed to be registered in religious premises, if that religious org wants to do it ie it's mainly for Quaker, Liberal jews and unitarians. There is no such thing as gay marriage in Church and the new regs don't change that. The govt are consulting on civil marriage in March 2012, again not religious. This man doesn'nt know what is happenning it seems, nor does the daily mail. I don't believe this story at all.

Give your support to gay marriage by signing the eptition for it


http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2797
But persecuting religious people is so fun.
Original post by kerily
The point is that he works for a public body. As such, anything he says under his own name online is associated with that public body. This is nothing new - it's the same reason why teachers shouldn't put photos from drunken nights out on Facebook or why militant fascists would probably be better off not mentioning this in the 'political views' section if they also happen to run nurseries.

It is illegal for a public body in the UK to discriminate against someone on the basis of sexual orientation, and as an extension of this, if you say anything discriminatory while representing that public body (which, rightly or wrongly, you do when posting on your own personal Facebook account), you are doing something similar. How many gay people would feel comfortable applying for council housing in this area knowing that someone in charge of its allotment had a problem with them? Whatever his private views are, he has a duty to uphold the values of the people he works for in public - and because this is a public sector organisation, where's 'public' and where's 'private' becomes a bit more blurred.


Well, I think the problem here is the blurry nature of Facebook which gives the illusion of personal pages but is really public fora. One of the reasons I don't own an account. This is also the reason why I think this decision is much too harsh.

Furthermore, if he let his views interfere with his work, which I'm sure would be quickly ceased upon by colleagues, it would be a different matter. Surely someone's feelings about a person in an organisation don't matter much if they are still getting what they want from the service (i.e. receiving housing in this case) why do they have to agree with each other? I don't think merely holding his views constitutes discrimination and at this point you are getting into the depths of thoughtcrime.

Also, even if he has misunderstood the law (as people on this thread are stating) on his "personal" Facebook page does that mean he should be demoted?
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by LoveErinxo
Obviously he's completely misunderstood the situation, but he is entitled to an opinion, no matter how unpopular it is. I suppose I'd agree more with the demotion if he'd been expressing his views at work where it's neither relevant nor professional, but on his own Facebook, out of work hours? Now more than ever people need the money they're earning, and it's unfair that his employer is penalising him for something that really shouldn't be any of their business.


Yeah, I agree. Facebook is terrible for this, it's not private in the least despite having the illusion of a digital personal space. Had this bloke expressed his views verbally like this at a dinner party among friends they may have thought him misguided and a fool but I am sure he would not have had a paycut for it. I'm sure people on here would find that idea laughable, but Facebook is supposed to be like a virtual dinner party. Facebook is supposed to connect you with your friends but actually it is an entirely public domain where in committing your thoughts and views to writing you are expressing them to a much wider audience.

I really think Facebook has a lot to answer for privacywise.
(edited 12 years ago)
Great, now homos want to get married in the church :rolleyes:.

I support gay rights/civil partenrships etc. but he is right as far as marriage and religion goes IMO. Even if I didn't who am I to decide what he should or should not believe or broadcast in his own facebook page. Pseudo liberals need to take into account everyone's opinions instead of jumping at the next chance to bend over backwards for the next minority group in sight.

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