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Tbh, the USA are the biggest opponents to peace in the world.

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Original post by internetguru
Okay I retract my statement full sanctions and economic blockades for both Iran and Israel. These naughty countries need to learn that supporting terrorism is bad.


*Sigh* Totally ignoring what I said about it being hard to prove these supposed links between Israel and terrorist groups.
Well I'm not willing to gamble with the lives of innocent civilians. Israel has never denied funding terrorists so it is probably safe to assume they are. They didn't really prove Iraq was building WMDs that didn't stop us. It cannot be proven Iran is building WMDs that doesn't stop governments saying they should invade anyway just in case. There was no evidence provided before we invaded Afghanistan. So really evidence is irrelevant.
Original post by internetguru
Well I'm not willing to gamble with the lives of innocent civilians. Israel has never denied funding terrorists so it is probably safe to assume they are. They didn't really prove Iraq was building WMDs that didn't stop us. It cannot be proven Iran is building WMDs that doesn't stop governments saying they should invade anyway just in case. There was no evidence provided before we invaded Afghanistan. So really evidence is irrelevant.


What are you talking about? What 'evidence' did we need to invade Afghanistan. The Taleban sheltered a terrorist organisation responsible for the killing of thousands of Americans and who had declared war on the United States. It was a matter of the enforcement of laws pertaining to self-defence and the protection of civilians, not providing 'evidence' for anything.
That doesn't make any sense. I can name at least 10 UN member states that are sovereign and 'democratic' (like Israel) which are oppressive. Israel is certainly one of them, in fact Israel is more of a flawed democracy that purports to be fully democratic when it really isn't, similar to countries like Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Sri Lanka, India, South Africa and quite a few others. You are severely in denial if you think Israel isn't oppressive. Doesn't matter how oppressive it is because that is impossible to gauge. It is extremely oppressive.
(edited 11 years ago)
Before the invasion of Afghanistan the Taliban demanded evidence that Bin Laden was responsible. The US refused to give them evidence and invaded instead. We had no evidence at least we have never made this evidence public anyway.
Original post by Summa Laude
That doesn't make any sense. I can name at least 10 UN member states that are sovereign and 'democratic' (like Israel) which are oppressive. Israel is certainly one of them, in fact Israel is more of a flawed democracy that purports to be fully democratic when it really isn't, similar to countries like Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Sri Lanka, India, South Africa and quite a few others. You are severely in denial if you think Palestine is subject to one of the least oppressive occupying powers in history.


The first part of your argument has nothing to do with the original point, which was whether or not Israel can receive support from other countries. You were drawing a thinly veiled comparison between Israel and terrorist groups, which is a bunk analogy considering Israel is a sovereign nation. The occupation of Palestine, whilst oppressive, is not quite comparable to other occupations, such as China's occupation of Tibet, Turkey's actions towards the Kurds, Iraq's occupation of Kuwait, etc. The same amount of Palestinians, including combatants, have been killed in a high-intensity conflict since 1948 than Syrian protesters have been killed by Assad's assaults in just over a year, to give a sense of comparison. Iran's execution of tens of thousands of political prisoners since 1979 is also worth a mention. I'm not in denial - I know what Israel does in the Occupied Territories and what they did during the War of Independence. I just acknowledge that much worse has happened, and continues to happen, without much attention.
Reply 86
Original post by Aaron_xyz
I agree with this part. As a ethnic Chinese person I can see that the number of the attacks against Chinese living in the west is large and increasing. Its unfortunate as well that the people who often have to suffer the most sinophobic insults, attacks etc are those ethnic Chinese who were born and raised here.

Remember the story about that little girl being run over in China last year? I had people on the street spit at me and call me "baby killer".


Well, I won't mince my words here, a lot of people hate us here, and it is because of the colour of our skin rather than our affiliation to a country. Same with people with brown skin. The British ethnic minorities who grow up here and look like 'one of the enemy' that the media portray bear the brunt of the hatred.

And yes, I have had a lot of random insults and physical assaults directed at me. But hey, the best they can say is 'chinky', to which i reply usually with 'nah, i'm ching chong, my brother is chinky' (in the same way black people refer to themselves as '******', you gotta neutralise the word so it becomes essentially meaningless to these racists)
Original post by internetguru
Before the invasion of Afghanistan the Taliban demanded evidence that Bin Laden was responsible. The US refused to give them evidence and invaded instead. We had no evidence at least we have never made this evidence public anyway.


Read this, and before you say "it's just a blog" check the sources.
Original post by Summa Laude
I was merely responding to your poorly informed response. Most of what you're saying now is completely irrelevant to what we were discussing. A little ironic no?

Learn to be succinct. You don't win debates by posting a load of irrelevant tosh.


What are you talking about? Your original post emboldened the part of my post that pertained to the support of terrorist organisations, then you sarcastically stated that it was therefore "perfectly okay to support an oppressive regime like Israel." I said that it was okay to support Israel since it's a sovereign state and a member of the UN, and I summarised why I felt that the oppression in the Palestinians Territories is benign in the post before this one. If this is going nowhere I'll stop now.
'On 5 October 2001, the Taliban offered to try Bin Laden in an Afghan court, so long as the United States provided what it called "solid evidence" of his guilt, but the U.S. would not hand over its evidence to the Taliban.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

Wikipedia is always well sourced and I am yet to find any inaccuracies. It is highly unlikely such a high profile event would be incorrect on the largest encyclopaedia in the world.
Original post by internetguru
'On 5 October 2001, the Taliban offered to try Bin Laden in an Afghan court, so long as the United States provided what it called "solid evidence" of his guilt, but the U.S. would not hand over its evidence to the Taliban.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001–present)

Wikipedia is always well sourced and I am yet to find any inaccuracies. It is highly unlikely such a high profile event would be incorrect on the largest encyclopaedia in the world.


You think the United States should have let a Taliban kangaroo court try a terrorist they sympathised with? The crime was committed against the United States. It has nothing to do with prosecution or law enforcement - it was a declaration of war. The laws of warfare apply.
My whole argument is that evidence is irrelevant you can act without evidence in specific circumstances.
Original post by internetguru
My whole argument is that evidence is irrelevant you can act without evidence in specific circumstances.


Such as in the invasion of Iraq?
Reply 93
Original post by Cephalus
It does reek of human catastrophe, but it will be Iran's fault I'm afraid.


Oh please, what harm can Iran do? theyre not the ones with thousands upon thousands of nuclear ICBMS/SLBMS aimed at cities across the globe.
An invasion was probably the incorrect move because it is unlikely that they were anywhere near getting nukes. Economic sanctions and a blockade would have been fine to pressure Iraq into democracy.
Original post by internetguru
An invasion was probably the incorrect move because it is unlikely that they were anywhere near getting nukes. Economic sanctions and a blockade would have been fine to pressure Iraq into democracy.


I don't want to turn this into an Iraq debate, but the sanctions regime continued for years with no success. Saddam exploited them under the auspices of the UN and got away with it, using any means he could to try and re-arm.
Saddam would never have obtained nuclear weapons with an economic blockade, he would never be able to got hold of the correct materials.
Original post by internetguru
Saddam would never have obtained nuclear weapons with an economic blockade, he would never be able to got hold of the correct materials.


He tried everything in his capacity to re-start his weapons programme. Read this if you want information on the programme.
He tried and failed.
Reply 99
The one thing I would say in support of this is how I don't understand that America can pride itself on independence and tolerance that were the founding principles for its like legal laws or whatever (I'm an English student and I can't think of the word, FML). Anyway, it's a country brimming with racism, homophobia and prejudice against all non-Christian religions, I mean, that's a massive generalisation, and I know they've legalised gay marriage in some states, but I personally think the country has this American Way of Life idea that only allows for people to live a certain way of life which contrasts the reason for it's creation, the reason people migrated there to start with, and the reason they were all like "YEAH, the land of hope and freedom".

But tbh, I don't think it's so much an American problem, as it is a human one. And some of the countries America is "hating on", are wayyyy wayyyyyyyy worse.

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