University cancels its annual jelly-wrestling contest after feminist complaints
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Some ugly war pigs jealous of the attention other women get.
By agreeing that it shouldn't have been banned we are effectively saying 'it's fine, lets go backwards to the days of women being looked down' I thought we past that period?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Tabzqt
I thought feminism was about women's right to choose? If so, they should be able to choose whether they wish to participate in this jelly competition or not. The feminists have taken away this right to choose. Besides, it's a private event and if someone doesn't want to see women objectified in this manner then they have a simple option - don't turn up.
Please sign the counter-petition to reverse this terrible decision:
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-wyverns-drinking-society-we-want-jelly-wrestling-at-the-wyverns-garden-party
Please sign the counter-petition to reverse this terrible decision:
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-wyverns-drinking-society-we-want-jelly-wrestling-at-the-wyverns-garden-party
See thats what i dont like either - these hard core feminists stamp on a womans right to choose to get in a bikini and wrestle in jelly as THEY dont agree with it. The take away a womans choice to do what they want because the hard core feminists dont like it. As if by doing it those participating they somehow lack the mental capacity to say no
This came up on my facebook feed a day ago though Iv'e noticed they've left out a few things in article quoted in the first post, I'm not going to quote the whole of it so feel free to read here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-22450573. But i felt this section was important.
Either way the whole stories not there and things are being blown out of proportion becasue it's happeing at cambridge universty. but to all those saying no one is forcing the women to participate, technically no one is forcing the event orginasers to cancel the event ethier. One side chooses to particpate, the other doesn't like it and chooses to complain each has a right to do these things. I mean if they had an open prostest at the event and threatend those participating then fine they've overstep thier mark. but all they did was sign a petition, and somehow that's "femminism gone mad XD?"
Miss de Paula Hanika, 19, an art history student at Magdalene College, said the all-male drinking society event was "clearly sexist, misogynistic and completely inappropriate as entertainment for 2013"
She said college members did "excellent work every year to end the entrenched belief that this university is sexist and elitist, and it is exactly events like this that ruin their work".
However, she stressed her petition was not "an attempt to judge the women who have taken part in the past, nor ban jelly wrestling itself as an activity.
"I feel very strongly that women telling other women what to do is wrong, which is why the entire petition statement was directed towards the male organisers of the event."
The petition closed with 1,174 signatures - more than the 1,000 she had hoped for.
She said college members did "excellent work every year to end the entrenched belief that this university is sexist and elitist, and it is exactly events like this that ruin their work".
However, she stressed her petition was not "an attempt to judge the women who have taken part in the past, nor ban jelly wrestling itself as an activity.
"I feel very strongly that women telling other women what to do is wrong, which is why the entire petition statement was directed towards the male organisers of the event."
The petition closed with 1,174 signatures - more than the 1,000 she had hoped for.
Either way the whole stories not there and things are being blown out of proportion becasue it's happeing at cambridge universty. but to all those saying no one is forcing the women to participate, technically no one is forcing the event orginasers to cancel the event ethier. One side chooses to particpate, the other doesn't like it and chooses to complain each has a right to do these things. I mean if they had an open prostest at the event and threatend those participating then fine they've overstep thier mark. but all they did was sign a petition, and somehow that's "femminism gone mad XD?"
Original post by Iron Lady
I understand what you're saying, but I don't like the idea of the "greater good", when:
1. What if those girls really enjoy those contests? Why should you take their right to participate, just based on your opinion?
2. You're only treated as a "sex object" if you allow yourself to be. You only degrade yourself at your own consent, no one else can do it for you. You choose to be offended, you can just turn the other way and ignore it.
3. Those girls are at the University of Cambridge, I doubt anyone views them as stupid. They just saw it as a way of relaxing or whatever.
4. I'm sorry but you sound like "I know best" when you go on about changing social attitudes. People won't take sexist attitudes as truth, very often they're laughed at. Let people come to their own decisions and judge sexist people as wrong.
1. What if those girls really enjoy those contests? Why should you take their right to participate, just based on your opinion?
2. You're only treated as a "sex object" if you allow yourself to be. You only degrade yourself at your own consent, no one else can do it for you. You choose to be offended, you can just turn the other way and ignore it.
3. Those girls are at the University of Cambridge, I doubt anyone views them as stupid. They just saw it as a way of relaxing or whatever.
4. I'm sorry but you sound like "I know best" when you go on about changing social attitudes. People won't take sexist attitudes as truth, very often they're laughed at. Let people come to their own decisions and judge sexist people as wrong.
Doesn't everyone think they know best when it comes to social issues? Of course I think I'm right and I will fight for those beliefs, but I'm not trying to censor anyone. Nor were the feminists who started the petition, or anyone that signed it. As it wasn't a ban, I don't know how anyone can complain about their 'right' to participate. What if men really wanted to take part in these competitions? They never had the opportunity because their bodies aren't what the crowd wants. I'm sure some women did want to take part, but it's hardly a great loss for the event to be cancelled. It's easy to say "well just don't watch if you don't like it" but it goes beyond that. It is reinforcing the idea that women exist for the pleasure of men, even Cambridge students who clearly have other talents. To ignore the petition would be to ignore those women who felt uncomfortable with the thought of female bodies being used as entertainment which effects all of us, not just the participants.
Original post by TheHistoryStudent
I think that if they don't like it, they don't have to go, or participate. Same goes for males who don't like it too.
While I'm not advocating it being banned or not, I'm not sure what my opinion is on the banning, I can say this:
That sort of rationale in your post doesn't really work. Assuming that the event sexualises and objectifies women i.e it treats their bodies as entertainment, then that world view and idea of objectification is not maintained exclusively to those that take part. The idea and concept of objectification may be enforced by those at the event but it will transfer to other women who had no role in the event, just because they are women too.
To take an incredibly extreme example, it's similar to saying, oh, you don't like that the KKK spreads and promotes racist hate? Well don't take part then.
It's easy to see why that's not a valid response, because regardless of whether you take part or not, it's influencing others in an opinion which will affect everyone, irrelevant of their participation. Like I said though, that's an extreme example.
Original post by kidomo
By agreeing that it shouldn't have been banned we are effectively saying 'it's fine, lets go backwards to the days of women being looked down' I thought we past that period?
Going back? When were women allowed to wrestle in jelly for money? No, this is progress, the progress of freedom of choice. Except banning it removes that choice so the banning is going backwards.
It's a bit of harmless fun. If you look down on women who wrestle in jelly, then that says more about you.
Original post by ArtGoblin
Doesn't everyone think they know best when it comes to social issues? Of course I think I'm right and I will fight for those beliefs, but I'm not trying to censor anyone. Nor were the feminists who started the petition, or anyone that signed it. As it wasn't a ban, I don't know how anyone can complain about their 'right' to participate. What if men really wanted to take part in these competitions? They never had the opportunity because their bodies aren't what the crowd wants. I'm sure some women did want to take part, but it's hardly a great loss for the event to be cancelled. It's easy to say "well just don't watch if you don't like it" but it goes beyond that. It is reinforcing the idea that women exist for the pleasure of men, even Cambridge students who clearly have other talents. To ignore the petition would be to ignore those women who felt uncomfortable with the thought of female bodies being used as entertainment which effects all of us, not just the participants.
Just to pick up on this point, what's wrong with it? Men find women physically attractive, and women find men physically attractive (talking in general about heterosexuals, of course). Yes the women have other talents, and they can use them where applicable and when they choose, so why not their physical appearance too which presumably they've worked on in the gym/dieting?
Original post by doggyfizzel
Yeah I know, I was just saying beach volley can't even complain about sexual objectification, its pretty much the sport's main selling point. Pretty much only second the LFL.
the LFL?
Original post by SleepySheep
I said that men are objectified by the media and it is harmful to them. That is more than you have done for women. You are the person who is downplaying gender issues.
"The objectification of men is not on the same scale as the objectification of women. If you think it is, you are delusional."
that's downplaying it in my opinion.
Original post by ArtGoblin
I don't see it as a moral issue. I just want women to be treated with the same respect as men are. I think that is a legitimate social attitude to want to change.
The end goal of gender equality is for individuals to be treated with respect based on their own merits, rather than as a generic member of either gender. No man should promote men's interests simply because they're men, and no woman should promote women's interests simply because they're women. Am I right?
It's a fact that men will always be interested in female bodies, even if they don't show it 24/7. These girls know that and took part in the wrestling anyway, which they would not happily do if they were being constantly downtrodden and oppressed. I expect that most of the male spectators treat the female wrestlers with complete respect in everyday life - not because they're women, but because they're human beings.
Fantastic!
I presume that if the feminist movement in Cambridge have taken to campaigning against, ehm... jelly wrestling, they must feel that they've cracked problems such as the gender pay gap, the under representation of women in business and politics, problems faced by women in the developing world, the repression of women in places like Saudi Arabia, better maternity leave conditions and the option of paternity leave etc?
Don't get me wrong- I'm not anti-feminist but seriously, what sort of joyless, authoritarian movement stops freely consenting adults from engaging in ... jelly wrestling, when there are many more serious issues that they could be addressing?
I presume that if the feminist movement in Cambridge have taken to campaigning against, ehm... jelly wrestling, they must feel that they've cracked problems such as the gender pay gap, the under representation of women in business and politics, problems faced by women in the developing world, the repression of women in places like Saudi Arabia, better maternity leave conditions and the option of paternity leave etc?
Don't get me wrong- I'm not anti-feminist but seriously, what sort of joyless, authoritarian movement stops freely consenting adults from engaging in ... jelly wrestling, when there are many more serious issues that they could be addressing?
I think the organisers are stupid for scrapping the whole event.
What they should have done was to introduce a male only competition (and even maybe mixed doubles!) alongside the female only one and release a PR statement saying something like "we appreciate the issues highlighted by the online petition and as such we have made our event open to male participants in order to address gender equality". Then what are the feminists going to say?
I have a feeling that of those who completed the online petition, most don't actually CARE about gender equality they just simply want something to moan about. At the end of the day the jelly competition was a tradition and the women who engaged in it were willing participants. Surely the feminists should take up the issue with other girls whom are the willing participants in such events. Furthermore, I really think they would still kick up a fuss were the event to be made more equal in allowing male participants also
What they should have done was to introduce a male only competition (and even maybe mixed doubles!) alongside the female only one and release a PR statement saying something like "we appreciate the issues highlighted by the online petition and as such we have made our event open to male participants in order to address gender equality". Then what are the feminists going to say?
I have a feeling that of those who completed the online petition, most don't actually CARE about gender equality they just simply want something to moan about. At the end of the day the jelly competition was a tradition and the women who engaged in it were willing participants. Surely the feminists should take up the issue with other girls whom are the willing participants in such events. Furthermore, I really think they would still kick up a fuss were the event to be made more equal in allowing male participants also
Original post by ArtGoblin
Doesn't everyone think they know best when it comes to social issues?
Of course I think I'm right and I will fight for those beliefs, but I'm not trying to censor anyone. Nor were the feminists who started the petition, or anyone that signed it. As it wasn't a ban, I don't know how anyone can complain about their 'right' to participate.
What if men really wanted to take part in these competitions? They never had the opportunity because their bodies aren't what the crowd wants.
I'm sure some women did want to take part, but it's hardly a great loss for the event to be cancelled.
It is reinforcing the idea that women exist for the pleasure of men, even Cambridge students who clearly have other talents. To ignore the petition would be to ignore those women who felt uncomfortable with the thought of female bodies being used as entertainment which effects all of us, not just the participants.
Its such a hypocritical stance based on many other feminist views on freedoms and people finding thing offensive. If you apply to the logic of someone being offended as legitimate grounds to work towards ensuring a platform is removed to other walks, perhaps LGBT issues or women's rights I wonder where you would stand.
Original post by bottled
the LFL?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I think the time has come to dessert this thread.
Maybe so, coming up with puns is no cake-walk, just pudding that out there!
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Hopple
If a woman wants to take part, aren't you being oppressive being stopping her? You can't even argue that it's influencing young girls, because by any stretch of the imagination, jelly wrestling can't be considered 'normal' behaviour.
I don't think objecting to an event is oppressive. It was deliberately not banned - the organisers had a choice whether to stop it or not. Before that, they were not aware of the opposition to this sort of event. By making their views known (and that is all they did), the organisers could make an informed decision about whether to continue.
Original post by Hopple
Just to pick up on this point, what's wrong with it? Men find women physically attractive, and women find men physically attractive (talking in general about heterosexuals, of course). Yes the women have other talents, and they can use them where applicable and when they choose, so why not their physical appearance too which presumably they've worked on in the gym/dieting?
Yeah, women find men's bodies attractive so why isn't there a male version of this? There are some examples where men's bodies are used for women's entertainment, but the overwhelming majority of objectification is using women's bodies. Until we are socially equal, this type of objectification needs to be challenged.
Original post by You Failed
While I'm not advocating it being banned or not, I'm not sure what my opinion is on the banning, I can say this:
That sort of rationale in your post doesn't really work. Assuming that the event sexualises and objectifies women i.e it treats their bodies as entertainment, then that world view and idea of objectification is not maintained exclusively to those that take part. The idea and concept of objectification may be enforced by those at the event but it will transfer to other women who had no role in the event, just because they are women too.
To take an incredibly extreme example, it's similar to saying, oh, you don't like that the KKK spreads and promotes racist hate? Well don't take part then.
It's easy to see why that's not a valid response, because regardless of whether you take part or not, it's influencing others in an opinion which will affect everyone, irrelevant of their participation. Like I said though, that's an extreme example.
That sort of rationale in your post doesn't really work. Assuming that the event sexualises and objectifies women i.e it treats their bodies as entertainment, then that world view and idea of objectification is not maintained exclusively to those that take part. The idea and concept of objectification may be enforced by those at the event but it will transfer to other women who had no role in the event, just because they are women too.
To take an incredibly extreme example, it's similar to saying, oh, you don't like that the KKK spreads and promotes racist hate? Well don't take part then.
It's easy to see why that's not a valid response, because regardless of whether you take part or not, it's influencing others in an opinion which will affect everyone, irrelevant of their participation. Like I said though, that's an extreme example.
Is it really going to influence everyone though? A small-scale low key event organised by a drinking club from Cambridge? It's hardly on the same scale as the media or advertisements if you're looking at the objectification of women in the modern world.
The most it's going to do is influence those there, and that's if it influences them at all. Frankly I think that if you take your world view of women from a jelly wrestling contest organised by a drinking club you're a moron and not mature enough to be considered an adult anyway.
All I think this does to be honest is restrict the freedoms of both the people who wanted to attend and the people who wanted to take part because others were offended by it. The people who signed the petition & pressured the club to take this course of action I think have an odd view of what feminism is about to be honest... I just don't think it's possible to censor your way to freedom & equality.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by ArtGoblin
I don't think objecting to an event is oppressive. It was deliberately not banned - the organisers had a choice whether to stop it or not. Before that, they were not aware of the opposition to this sort of event. By making their views known (and that is all they did), the organisers could make an informed decision about whether to continue.
Just because you can't respect someone if they wrestle in jelly doesn't mean others can't. I've seen males and females in all sorts of embarrassing situations, doing silly stuff for fun, yet I have no problem respecting them as people.
Yeah, women find men's bodies attractive so why isn't there a male version of this? There are some examples where men's bodies are used for women's entertainment, but the overwhelming majority of objectification is using women's bodies. Until we are socially equal, this type of objectification needs to be challenged.
I don't know why there isn't a male version, you'd have to ask the drinking clubs of Cambridge University, but stopping the female version isn't going to help matters. Perhaps in time a male version would have arisen, or if the petition starter had been creative and set up a male version herself rather than being destructive and quashing the female version. Or are you of the belief that objectification is okay as long as it happens to men first?
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