China and Russia help global defence spending rise for first time in five years
More reason to vote UKIP
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html
China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.
Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution
If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today.
Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html
China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.
Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution
If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today.
Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
(edited 10 years ago)
Scroll to see replies
We need a Pan-European military, mainly for patrolling areas which affect us, like the shipping lanes off the coast of Somalia, drug trafficking from South America etc. I would say that Britain could spend less personally, but the overall European expenditure on it should be comparable with America's 
UKIP are stupid here, they say they want less to do with Europe, but what could this tiny little country do by itself, against China or Russia?
UKIP are stupid here, they say they want less to do with Europe, but what could this tiny little country do by itself, against China or Russia?
(edited 10 years ago)
China's expansion concerns me. The way they are currently acting they are asking for a accidental war to kick off, likely over a territorial dispute because they will bet that America will not back Japan (which it will).
As for Russia right now I believe structural flaws within the country will bring it down before it becomes a major threat to the West. The Russian economy is dominated by the resource sector which is hardly sustainable. The state is completely corrupt and almost incapable of meaningful reform. Until Russia can rebalance its economy and overcome issues within the Russian state I don't believe it poses a direct threat to the West.
Still European governments are far too willing to take an axe to the defence budget, god help the continent if there is ever a large scale war.
As for Russia right now I believe structural flaws within the country will bring it down before it becomes a major threat to the West. The Russian economy is dominated by the resource sector which is hardly sustainable. The state is completely corrupt and almost incapable of meaningful reform. Until Russia can rebalance its economy and overcome issues within the Russian state I don't believe it poses a direct threat to the West.
Still European governments are far too willing to take an axe to the defence budget, god help the continent if there is ever a large scale war.
Original post by yo radical one
We need a Pan-European military, mainly for patrolling areas which affect us, like the shipping lanes off the coast of Somalia, drug trafficking from South America etc. I would say that Britain could spend less personally, but the overall European expenditure on it should be comparable with America's
UKIP are stupid here, they say they want less to do with Europe, but what could this tiny little country do by itself, against China or Russia?
UKIP are stupid here, they say they want less to do with Europe, but what could this tiny little country do by itself, against China or Russia?
We did very well in the past, we have won wars against both countries. Remember a few decades ago we had one of the strongest militaries in the world.
I think British defence spending needs to rise by at least 1 GDP.
Original post by the mezzil
We did very well in the past, we have won wars against both countries. Remember a few decades ago we had one of the strongest militaries in the world.
Yeah because we were advanced and developed, compared with those countries. They on the other hand were backward; their soldiers were untrained peasants. If it ever comes to that though, China will have an advanced military, well trained, well fed soldiers and the numbers too. This is why the UK should not stand alone.
Original post by yo radical one
Yeah because we were advanced and developed, compared with those countries. They on the other hand were backward; their soldiers were untrained peasants. If it ever comes to that though, China will have an advanced military, well trained, well fed soldiers and the numbers too. This is why the UK should not stand alone.
Precisely why our military needs to be better than theirs, to make their weapon systems and techniques obsolete. We have done it before, we can do it again. Also, we should have allies and defence pacts, but not "special relationships" that require us to follow the USA into every single conflict. We need an increased defence budget, the past two wars (legal or illegal is irrelevant) has shown our forces are under equipped, under manned and over stretched.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by the mezzil
More reason to vote UKIP
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html
China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.
Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution
If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today.
Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html
China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.
Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution
If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today.
Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
How will voting UKIP change anything as far as the armed forces are concerned?
Original post by Stalin
How will voting UKIP change anything as far as the armed forces are concerned?
They are the only party wanting an increased defence spending. At least its a start.
Original post by akash11
More reason to part of large block of nations rather then one small island
Being part of a large block of nations means nothing if they are weak and easily subdued.
Original post by the mezzil
Being part of a large block of nations means nothing if they are weak and easily subdued.
Really? Britain and France alone are 2 of the 8 nations in the world who posses nuclear weapons, combined with other forces from wealthier European countries makes the eu are formidable military power
Original post by the mezzil
They are the only party wanting an increased defence spending. At least its a start.
Increased defence spending during austerity - have you seen the deficit?
Besides, why in the world would the UK need to increase defence spending in order to defend itself against China or Russia? Are the weapons in Faslane full of hot air?
I believe that this is an argument for the increased unification of the EU, something that UKIP are staunchly against. The problem is that the rest of the EU, particularly Germany, would need to up their game and start spending more on this combined task force. I fear that we are 70 years too late for them to even contemplate such a move 
Original post by akash11
Really? Britain and France alone are 2 of the 8 nations in the world who posses nuclear weapons, combined with other forces from wealthier European countries makes the eu are formidable military power
No Britain and France are at the moment declining military powers, and the only countries that have any real significant military power. Significant in the way that we have had to resort to sharing an aircraft carrier. The other Europeans countries are rich, but their militaries are weak. None of them have blue water capability, nuclear weapons, effective conventional forces. Britain and France count for 50% of the total EU military spending, and 75% of military technological research. The EU is not formidable, and a prolonged war with Russia would be costly.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Stalin
Increased defence spending during austerity - have you seen the deficit?
Besides, why in the world would the UK need to increase defence spending in order to defend itself against China or Russia? Are the weapons in Faslane full of hot air?
Besides, why in the world would the UK need to increase defence spending in order to defend itself against China or Russia? Are the weapons in Faslane full of hot air?
We need to get our priority's right. Why are we increasing foreign aid when our military is in far greater need of the money. Aid = dependency. We have tried for 50 years to eradicate poverty, it is still present now in places like Africa more than ever. Time to progress onwards.
Your second point would be valid if we didn't have any conventional forces during the cold war. The fact is nuclear weapons is not enough.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Mockery
I believe that this is an argument for the increased unification of the EU, something that UKIP are staunchly against. The problem is that the rest of the EU, particularly Germany, would need to up their game and start spending more on this combined task force. I fear that we are 70 years too late for them to even contemplate such a move
Only Britain and France would contribute, as seen presently. Germany is too cowardly and still has nightmares and war guilt of 1914 and 1939. No country in the EU would up their game, they believe it is everybody but themselves responsibility. It is time to leave the EU, fend for oiurselves and allow the selfish to feel the full force of their mistakes and laziness.
The EU is not working, and moreover, it is undemocratic,
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by the mezzil
More reason to vote UKIP
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html
China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.
Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution
If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today.
Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html
China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.
Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution
If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today.
Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
This is out of touch with the real world and in fact damn stupid. How can Britain face Russia & China alone?
What Britain needs is exactly the opposite - a unified European army.
Original post by the mezzil
More reason to vote UKIP Why?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html
China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.
Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. Are we? (Evidence, please?) We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. Will we? This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. ''Stop'' China and Russia? Are they going to invade, or something? They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. Do they? And if so, how do you know they'll target the west (and not African nations like they already have done)? China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution Source?
If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today. u wot m8?
Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA. Ok.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html
China and Russia are militarising quickly. China’s planned spending on its armed forces will for the first time eclipse the combined budgets of Britain, France and Germany. Beijing has set aside £90 billion ($148 billion) for its military, up more than six per cent on last year, continuing its long-running trend of growing defence spending.
Although many people don't seem to realise it, as they are to wrapped up with their comfy lives of junk food, X factor and clubbing, Britain and the west is rapidly entering a period of deep uncertainty and threat. Are we? (Evidence, please?) We need a stronger military with an increased defence budget to secure our freedoms. Will we? This does not mean galloping around the Middle East being the special constable, it means having a strong deterrent to stop China and Russia's belligerence. ''Stop'' China and Russia? Are they going to invade, or something? They are both countries that do not regard human rights, and wish to expand their geopolitical military power and dominance. Do they? And if so, how do you know they'll target the west (and not African nations like they already have done)? China for example has ideas of annexion and world revolution Source?
If you are naïve enough to think that China and Russia are just increasing their military spending for a bit of fun, you don't deserve the freedoms that you enjoy today. u wot m8?
Do we really want to be poodles of the USA, relying on them for protection? No, we need a strong, independent military, with our own foreign policy that is not dictated to us by the USA. Ok.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
To the stuff in bold: Please.... er... reply.
Provide evidence to back up your claims, and also sound/valid reasoning to back up your arguements.
China and Russia already spend more than us (militarily), and it has been like this for many years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
I'm not entirely convinced that we're at any threat of being invaded. Our relationship with China isn't bad. It's a bit rough with Russia (as is Russia's relationship with the west in general). Any war between us and China/Russia may aswell spark the end of the world (both sides have nuclear weapons, yay).
If we are at threat, would it not be better to try and promote better relations rather than just throw money at the issue?
Original post by Jefferson Disk
This is out of touch with the real world and in fact damn stupid. How can Britain face Russia & China alone?
What Britain needs is exactly the opposite - a unified European army.
What Britain needs is exactly the opposite - a unified European army.
I never said Britain can take on those countries alone. But we do need a stronger military to contribute in any coalition against those countries, or at least deter their belligerence. (Such as China against Japan)
A unified European army won't work. Only Britain and France will pull their weight. All other members of the EU have the attitude that it is everybody else's responsibility but theirs.
Original post by SHallowvale
To the stuff in bold: Please.... er... reply.
Provide evidence to back up your claims, and also sound/valid reasoning to back up your arguements.
China and Russia already spend more than us (militarily), and it has been like this for many years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
I'm not entirely convinced that we're at any threat of being invaded. Our relationship with China isn't bad. It's a bit rough with Russia (as is Russia's relationship with the west in general). Any war between us and China/Russia may aswell spark the end of the world (both sides have nuclear weapons, yay).
If we are at threat, would it not be better to try and promote better relations rather than just throw money at the issue?
Provide evidence to back up your claims, and also sound/valid reasoning to back up your arguements.
China and Russia already spend more than us (militarily), and it has been like this for many years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
I'm not entirely convinced that we're at any threat of being invaded. Our relationship with China isn't bad. It's a bit rough with Russia (as is Russia's relationship with the west in general). Any war between us and China/Russia may aswell spark the end of the world (both sides have nuclear weapons, yay).
If we are at threat, would it not be better to try and promote better relations rather than just throw money at the issue?
UKIP wish to increase defence spending.
Uncertintiy and threat? Have you seen the Middle East? Do you have any idea what is going on outside of Europe? China and Russia, along with many Middle Eastern countries are increasing their defence budgets, they aren't doing this for fun you know? Heck, even Australia is increasing their defence budget by 0.5% GDP because they aren't in this comfy European "I'm alright up here no one can touch me" mind-set.
As for our culture, I don't really need to go into this. Any well informed person knows we have an obesity crisis, and many people have "gone soft" on a daily diet of junk food and TV.
China is threatening our allies Japan and South Korea, and also wish for "world revolution" of the communist ideology. Now they may/may not invade, but they will threaten our trade routes, and the freedom of our allies.http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/chinas-belligerence-fueling-east-asian-military-buildup?a=1&c=1171
Russia regularly threatens our friends and our our airspace. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/9243954/Russia-threatens-Nato-with-military-strikes-over-missile-defence-system.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-threatens-preemptive-strike-over-us-missile-defence-deal-7711650.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1260381/RAF-jets-intercept-Russian-bombers-flying-British-airspace.html
Here is how the Indians view it.
http://www.forceindia.net/Dragon_Moves.aspx
and the Japanese
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/10546477/Japan-risks-threat-to-global-peace-by-rekindling-militaristic-spirit-of-Second-World-War-senior-Chinese-official-warns.html
http://world.time.com/2013/11/25/are-china-and-japan-inching-closer-to-war-over-a-few-disputed-islets/
Oh and a war with either country does not mean the end of the world, come on, let's not have this childish Armageddon rubbish. This is not a movie.
Anyway, we are already under attack by China. You just don't realise it because you have never been made aware of it/ took an interest in international military affairs.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2357317/British-defence-giant-blames-Chinese-hackers-wave-cyber-attacks.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15516959
(edited 10 years ago)
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