Review: Door-to-door Fundraising for HOME
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Original post by pane123
Raise money for charity in order to receive big bonuses? Altruism is dead.
Many of the people I work with would love to do this for free, but unfortunately we all have bills to pay. I'd rather pay them by raising money for charity than by filling shelves in a supermarket or serving burgers.
Question for all of you who think Home Fundraising don't do good for charity - why would charities like Cancer Research UK, British Heart Foundation etc use us if we're not good at raising money for them?
Original post by Man with no name
Many of the people I work with would love to do this for free, but unfortunately we all have bills to pay. I'd rather pay them by raising money for charity than by filling shelves in a supermarket or serving burgers.
Question for all of you who think Home Fundraising don't do good for charity - why would charities like Cancer Research UK, British Heart Foundation etc use us if we're not good at raising money for them?
Question for all of you who think Home Fundraising don't do good for charity - why would charities like Cancer Research UK, British Heart Foundation etc use us if we're not good at raising money for them?
You might be good at fundraising but you are well remunerated for being so, which makes we question the motives of fundraisers. These people will represent one charity one day and another charity the next. Do you really care about all the charities you represent? I doubt it.
Original post by pane123
You might be good at fundraising but you are well remunerated for being so, which makes we question the motives of fundraisers. These people will represent one charity one day and another charity the next. Do you really care about all the charities you represent? I doubt it.
Like I say, we all have bills to pay.
I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely care about all the charities I have represented. (In my time with the company I've represented Oxfam Emergency Response Team, Cancer Research UK and UNICEF.)
Even those who are only in it for the money - and I've met plenty of them in my time with the company - are still having a positive impact on the world. I'm not sure how important their motives are. (To continue my supermarket comparison, does it bother you that the people serving you in Sainsburys are only in it for the money?)
Original post by Man with no name
Even those who are only in it for the money - and I've met plenty of them in my time with the company - are still having a positive impact on the world. I'm not sure how important their motives are. (To continue my supermarket comparison, does it bother you that the people serving you in Sainsburys are only in it for the money?)
Their motives matter because they approach me in the street and make me feel guilty for not donating to whatever charity they happen to be working for that day.
People working in Sainsbury's do not bother me, no. They do not approach me when I have no desire to speak to them, nor are they paid much higher wages than their work merits, at least not to the same extent as fundraisers.
What does the average hourly wage of a fundraiser come to? Some of these folk will be earning the best part of £15/hour and a lot of companies don't even trust them to collect donations. It's absurd.
Guys, bare in mind 'Man with no name' has created an account just to defend Home Fundraising - He is a manager at Home Fundraising, it is obvious.
P.S: All past evidence of Home Fundraising abusing people:
Telegraph Article posted 08 Jul 2012
"One of the biggest, Home Fundraising — a sister company of Tag Campaigns until a recent reorganisation — saw a jump in turnover from £9 million to £13 million last year, with profits before tax of £629,245."
Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9383881/Rise-of-the-door-to-door-chugger-prompts-complaints.html
ddds posted in 2014
"I worked there briefly last year for a few months ,my career there ended when i left because of a manager saying i was always full of excuses for everything after i made the comment my fathers funeral may have resulted in low scores for that week."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2279554
heckles posted in 2014 (one of the last posters)
"Job stability here is terrible. This job is WEIRD. As mentioned, you are in a very unstable job. It is very stressful... People get a lot more stressed than they should on a job which pays a very basic rate.
Further, you are expected to pay for your own travel. If in London, expect to pay 13 pounds a day for peak hour travel during training. 8 pounds a day when you are working as a fundraiser. You work 5 hours a day on 8 pounds an hour. But with 8 pounds down the train, you are only really getting paid for 4 hours per day."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=46808707&highlight=home%20fundraising
little_brat posted in 2012
"I worked for these people for about a week. Don't believe the hype about earning loads of money, unless you're a natural salesperson who loves this kind of work and has no other commitments in your life. What they don't tell you is that you'll be expected to come into the office around 3 hours before your shift begins, and you won't be home until nearly midnight. So in reality, you're doing a 12 hour day for £35 basic, which is rubbish."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667&page=3&p=38930444&highlight=home%20fundraising#post38930444
felixk1 posted in 2012:
" In the end I am glad that I am not working for home fundraising as I hate to think about what they are like about paying people! I have now found a job paying more than what these scumbags were saying they would pay. I am currently talking to the citizens advice bureau trying to get them to pay me. "
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667&page=2
deadmanbreathing posted in 2011
"This is just another sales job, just like all the rest. The companies ethics soon start to disappear and filter out the further down the chain of command you go. "
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667
in_vogue posted in 2008
"I hated it. 2 8 hour unpaid 'training' days during which you have to listen to how the company is basically full of ruthless bastards. You learn how to essentially bully the old and disadvantaged into giving their money to charities they might not want to. You have to research the charity you'll be working on, and prepare a detailed 'spiel' to practice on teammates."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12663507&highlight=home%20fundraising
P.S: All past evidence of Home Fundraising abusing people:
Telegraph Article posted 08 Jul 2012
"One of the biggest, Home Fundraising — a sister company of Tag Campaigns until a recent reorganisation — saw a jump in turnover from £9 million to £13 million last year, with profits before tax of £629,245."
Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9383881/Rise-of-the-door-to-door-chugger-prompts-complaints.html
ddds posted in 2014
"I worked there briefly last year for a few months ,my career there ended when i left because of a manager saying i was always full of excuses for everything after i made the comment my fathers funeral may have resulted in low scores for that week."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2279554
heckles posted in 2014 (one of the last posters)
"Job stability here is terrible. This job is WEIRD. As mentioned, you are in a very unstable job. It is very stressful... People get a lot more stressed than they should on a job which pays a very basic rate.
Further, you are expected to pay for your own travel. If in London, expect to pay 13 pounds a day for peak hour travel during training. 8 pounds a day when you are working as a fundraiser. You work 5 hours a day on 8 pounds an hour. But with 8 pounds down the train, you are only really getting paid for 4 hours per day."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=46808707&highlight=home%20fundraising
little_brat posted in 2012
"I worked for these people for about a week. Don't believe the hype about earning loads of money, unless you're a natural salesperson who loves this kind of work and has no other commitments in your life. What they don't tell you is that you'll be expected to come into the office around 3 hours before your shift begins, and you won't be home until nearly midnight. So in reality, you're doing a 12 hour day for £35 basic, which is rubbish."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667&page=3&p=38930444&highlight=home%20fundraising#post38930444
felixk1 posted in 2012:
" In the end I am glad that I am not working for home fundraising as I hate to think about what they are like about paying people! I have now found a job paying more than what these scumbags were saying they would pay. I am currently talking to the citizens advice bureau trying to get them to pay me. "
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667&page=2
deadmanbreathing posted in 2011
"This is just another sales job, just like all the rest. The companies ethics soon start to disappear and filter out the further down the chain of command you go. "
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667
in_vogue posted in 2008
"I hated it. 2 8 hour unpaid 'training' days during which you have to listen to how the company is basically full of ruthless bastards. You learn how to essentially bully the old and disadvantaged into giving their money to charities they might not want to. You have to research the charity you'll be working on, and prepare a detailed 'spiel' to practice on teammates."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12663507&highlight=home%20fundraising
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by pane123
Their motives matter because they approach me in the street and make me feel guilty for not donating to whatever charity they happen to be working for that day.
People working in Sainsbury's do not bother me, no. They do not approach me when I have no desire to speak to them, nor are they paid much higher wages than their work merits, at least not to the same extent as fundraisers.
What does the average hourly wage of a fundraiser come to? Some of these folk will be earning the best part of £15/hour and a lot of companies don't even trust them to collect donations. It's absurd.
People working in Sainsbury's do not bother me, no. They do not approach me when I have no desire to speak to them, nor are they paid much higher wages than their work merits, at least not to the same extent as fundraisers.
What does the average hourly wage of a fundraiser come to? Some of these folk will be earning the best part of £15/hour and a lot of companies don't even trust them to collect donations. It's absurd.
I'm not sure it's possible to calculate an accurate average rate for fundraisers, as it varies so much. (It's certainly not possible with the information I have access to.) Some like myself are not that great at the job and rarely hit bonus. Others are exceptionally good and regularly hit bonus.
As for companies not trusting them to collect donations. That's not the case. Companies like Home are not legally permitted to collect cash at the door (Also, we are looking for ongoing support by direct debit, so collecting cash doesn't come into it.)
I do find it interesting that you feel fundraisers are over paid, while Jason feels they are under paid. That suggests (to me, at least) that the truth may be somewhere in the middle.
Original post by jasonlu
Guys, bare in mind 'Man with no name' has created an account just to defend Home Fundraising - He is a manager at Home Fundraising, it is obvious.
You can keep saying that, but it's not going to suddenly become true. I think by this point everyone knows you believe this. Perhaps they even agree with you. Either way, constantly repeating this claim only stops the discussion from progressing.
I'm afraid I'm writing this on my phone, which is pretty fiddly, so I'm just going to address the parts you've quoted rather than follow the links. If there's anything particularly relevant I'm missing, please do bring it to my attention.
P.S: All past evidence of Home Fundraising abusing people:
Telegraph Article posted 08 Jul 2012
"One of the biggest, Home Fundraising — a sister company of Tag Campaigns until a recent reorganisation — saw a jump in turnover from £9 million to £13 million last year, with profits before tax of £629,245."
Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9383881/Rise-of-the-door-to-door-chugger-prompts-complaints.html
How is this evidence of abuse? Making profits is generally what companies do. You'd think if Home were abusing theur staff, everyone would either leave or be thoroughly miserable, neither of which seem to me to be a recipe for success.
Original post by jasonlu
ddds posted in 2014
"I worked there briefly last year for a few months ,my career there ended when i left because of a manager saying i was always full of excuses for everything after i made the comment my fathers funeral may have resulted in low scores for that week."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2279554
"I worked there briefly last year for a few months ,my career there ended when i left because of a manager saying i was always full of excuses for everything after i made the comment my fathers funeral may have resulted in low scores for that week."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2279554
If true, that's pretty indefensible. But we have no context. Were his/her scores just low that week, or was it an ongoing problem? I've had more low scoring weeks than I'd like, and I'm still with the company.
Original post by jasonlu
heckles posted in 2014 (one of the last posters)
"Job stability here is terrible. This job is WEIRD. As mentioned, you are in a very unstable job. It is very stressful... People get a lot more stressed than they should on a job which pays a very basic rate.
Further, you are expected to pay for your own travel. If in London, expect to pay 13 pounds a day for peak hour travel during training. 8 pounds a day when you are working as a fundraiser. You work 5 hours a day on 8 pounds an hour. But with 8 pounds down the train, you are only really getting paid for 4 hours per day."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=46808707&highlight=home%20fundraising
"Job stability here is terrible. This job is WEIRD. As mentioned, you are in a very unstable job. It is very stressful... People get a lot more stressed than they should on a job which pays a very basic rate.
Further, you are expected to pay for your own travel. If in London, expect to pay 13 pounds a day for peak hour travel during training. 8 pounds a day when you are working as a fundraiser. You work 5 hours a day on 8 pounds an hour. But with 8 pounds down the train, you are only really getting paid for 4 hours per day."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=46808707&highlight=home%20fundraising
This is the second time someone fron London has said that in this thread, so I can only assume it is true in London. But it's absolutely not true in the area I work in.
I assume (and hope) they tell you when you go for the job that you have to cover your travel costs?
Original post by jasonlu
little_brat posted in 2012
"I worked for these people for about a week. Don't believe the hype about earning loads of money, unless you're a natural salesperson who loves this kind of work and has no other commitments in your life. What they don't tell you is that you'll be expected to come into the office around 3 hours before your shift begins, and you won't be home until nearly midnight. So in reality, you're doing a 12 hour day for £35 basic, which is rubbish."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667&page=3&p=38930444&highlight=home%20fundraising#post38930444
"I worked for these people for about a week. Don't believe the hype about earning loads of money, unless you're a natural salesperson who loves this kind of work and has no other commitments in your life. What they don't tell you is that you'll be expected to come into the office around 3 hours before your shift begins, and you won't be home until nearly midnight. So in reality, you're doing a 12 hour day for £35 basic, which is rubbish."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667&page=3&p=38930444&highlight=home%20fundraising#post38930444
This one makes me laugh. They admit they the work doesn't come naturally to them and says they left after a week because they didn't earn loads of money. Would you expect to earn loads of money in your first week in a job you weren't naturally suited to? (I'm not a natural either. I got my first sign up at the very end of my first week. I got another two during my second week and two more in my third. It was only in my fourth week I started to do better.)
I'm also sceptical about them being called into the office three hours before their shift begins, and I have never got home as late as midnight, despite the fact that I live a considerable distance from the office.
Original post by jasonlu
felixk1 posted in 2012:
" In the end I am glad that I am not working for home fundraising as I hate to think about what they are like about paying people! I have now found a job paying more than what these scumbags were saying they would pay. I am currently talking to the citizens advice bureau trying to get them to pay me. "
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667&page=2
" In the end I am glad that I am not working for home fundraising as I hate to think about what they are like about paying people! I have now found a job paying more than what these scumbags were saying they would pay. I am currently talking to the citizens advice bureau trying to get them to pay me. "
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667&page=2
Can't really comment on this without knowing the context, except to say that I have never had trouble getting paid.
deadmanbreathing posted in 2011
"This is just another sales job, just like all the rest. The companies ethics soon start to disappear and filter out the further down the chain of command you go. "
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1356667
I'm not even sure what this is trying to say. The managers are more ethical than the fundraisers? I'm not sure I agree, but assuming it's true, isn't that what you want? Ethical people in the positions of responsibility?
[ QUOTE=jasonlu;50713767]in_vogue posted in 2008
"I hated it. 2 8 hour unpaid 'training' days during which you have to to how the company is basically full of ruthless bastards. You learn how to essentially bully the old and disadvantaged into giving their money to charities they might not want to. You have to research the charity you'll be working on, and prepare a detailed 'spiel' to practice on teammates."
Source: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12663507&highlight=home%20fundraising
Again, this is just laughable. Ignoring the fact that the two training days are paid - this post is six years old, so I assume things were done differently then - they're complaining that they have to research the charity? Did they think they could just make stuff up? They're complaining that they have to practice on their colleagues? It can be intimidating talking to strangers. How do you think people would get on with members of the public if they didn't practice? (Particularly if those members of the public have the same opinion of fundraisers as the people in this thread.
Hey all, was just looking at opinions of other people who have worked in other regions whilst I had a moment. I work as a charity fundraiser in the Bristol region and have had overall a really good experience. I feel that since I've never worked in other regions I can't comment on them, but here the staff (including/ especially the management) have been really helpful and friendly. I would agree that there's more money to be made doing other jobs, although that's based on the hourly wage. If you begin to make bonus you can make much more than in other jobs, plus it's much more sociable/ pleasant than you can expect to get from McDonalds...
Overall I would fully recommend working in the Bristol HomeFundraising office, it allowed me to gather enough money to go to Mexico in a couple of months and have a pretty good time whilst I was at it. It's super easy to get involved, I just popped into the office and asked for an interview, it's basically by castle park.
Overall I would fully recommend working in the Bristol HomeFundraising office, it allowed me to gather enough money to go to Mexico in a couple of months and have a pretty good time whilst I was at it. It's super easy to get involved, I just popped into the office and asked for an interview, it's basically by castle park.
Well got initial assesment for home fundraising tomorrow , but not going to bother will stay at home looking for a better job instead not putting in over thirty hours a week only to be paid for 25 
that's crazy
that's crazyOriginal post by jasonlu
@mstandish1, how comes you made an account just to give positive feedback for that deceitful fundraising company? (Check his profile, he Joined TSR in Jan 2015 and has 2 posts).
Anyone have feedback about HOME?
Anyone have feedback about HOME?
Worked for them for 3 days. Never again!
Posted from TSR Mobile
Ok so I worked few days with them and I'm going back tomorrow to change a contract to 15H from 25H I spoke to many people there and they like it you get paid back for your travel if you do all the shifts you are meant to do (I think London is the only one that doesn't) about team leaders they are different I got a nice one that was worrying that they would want to get rid of me because I didn't do enough doors per day I personally got 2 sales on my first day so I was happy about that 
only bad thing in the company is how much im getting taxed :C
only bad thing in the company is how much im getting taxed :CAnd yes I did join just to comment BTW you two are more funny the my favourite show
Original post by T.I.P
I agree! If anyone thinks they should work for door to door fundraising don't do it!! Unless you have previously had a sales job & was amazing at it you will hate it because you will not hit the targets!! Plus when I worked there my manager admitted he only employed me because he fancied me..even though I'd turned 18 a few days before getting the job & he was in his 30's :/
I thought id bump this thread for reasons as expressed here.
Company as a whole
This company is full of hypocrisy, for a start they take on charities and get a cut from them (which is fine as long as they give back double the amount imo) but the main issue I have is that they don't flat out say it, the only time they tell people is if they check the badge or during the actual initial sign up process.
Time issues and pay
Another major issue I faced was the time, they tell people its a 3.30 start. But thats a load of nonsense, they basically ask you to be in the office at 1.30 and sometimes its far away so travel time is required however sometimes its about 10 minutes away so basically you're pulled away. They NEVER once specified earlier on where you would be going. So basically you get called in 2 hours before shift starts and you dont get paid for it. Travel time is also not paid for so you may as well be getting home at times like 10pm (shift ends at 9pm) and of course no pay there.
You are however paid on time on the dot and that's something positive there.
Areas sent to fund-raise in
I can't begin to even describe how stupid and utterly moronic this company is when it comes to areas. Most of the time I was sent to very deprived areas (people living on benefits and flats in the most horrific conditions ever). People are more or less not going to sign up and feel harassed if you keep bombarding them with objection handling. Then the company and the managers have the audacity to say "there's no sch thing as a bad area" Which is completely unfounded. Our team once walked away with no signs up and they blamed it all on us and saying we're not trying hard enough.
As of late people (doners) have gotten savvy to fundraisers and have started simply not answering the doors, as a result the number of people signing up will obviously decrease as about 90% of the doors just don't open and the 10% who do either close it right after or refuse. The company refuses to accept this is the case and provide training for this and refuse to shift the required 2 per day sign up rate.
Management
Another bunch of hypocrites who consider themselves above the normal fundraisers. I had 4 managers (or 3) 3/4 of them were amazing in the sense they did provide help and support but at the same time they still spewed the same company crap. The other 1 however outright hated me. I ended up working a shift with this manager and got sent home as I was unwell, Basically i was near about sneezing on the people who opened the doors. The manager refused to believe me till I said I really couldn't continue, I even told the manager to go ahead and ask the other members of my team (obviously they weren't asked as its better to say I lied than discover the truth). During the time we had our allotted lunch break (5.30-6) but the manager didnt even bother giving us a 10 minute break so we could recover from walking around and walking up hills (something every team leader gives out as they understand how harsh the job is). A quick 5 minutes (so the manager could get a smoke) and then back to work.
I got called into the office the next day I was working and suddenly got told my scores were crap (a false number was shown to me as well, one which the minute I left the office calculated and saw the manager had PURPOSELY lowered the number). I got put on Peer review and In all honesty it made me so mad as there were people within the office who had worse scores than me. Basically I got picked on because I wasn't liked and no one was there to help me out.
issues with doners and fundraisers
On the off chance you get called in with a complaint or somehow the doner decides you were forceful when you were not. Good Luck. The Doner will be right and you'll be disciplined. But remember if you're scoring high you'll let off with a stern talking to!
The normal fundraisers and team members
Amazing people. I don't have words to describe the amount of caring and amazing people you wil meet in this job. The people are the only reason the small minority who do stay, decide to stay.
TL
R version.
The management sucks, the company lie, the company as a whole is shifty but the people (who you'll work with) are cool.
Company as a whole
This company is full of hypocrisy, for a start they take on charities and get a cut from them (which is fine as long as they give back double the amount imo) but the main issue I have is that they don't flat out say it, the only time they tell people is if they check the badge or during the actual initial sign up process.
Time issues and pay
Another major issue I faced was the time, they tell people its a 3.30 start. But thats a load of nonsense, they basically ask you to be in the office at 1.30 and sometimes its far away so travel time is required however sometimes its about 10 minutes away so basically you're pulled away. They NEVER once specified earlier on where you would be going. So basically you get called in 2 hours before shift starts and you dont get paid for it. Travel time is also not paid for so you may as well be getting home at times like 10pm (shift ends at 9pm) and of course no pay there.
You are however paid on time on the dot and that's something positive there.
Areas sent to fund-raise in
I can't begin to even describe how stupid and utterly moronic this company is when it comes to areas. Most of the time I was sent to very deprived areas (people living on benefits and flats in the most horrific conditions ever). People are more or less not going to sign up and feel harassed if you keep bombarding them with objection handling. Then the company and the managers have the audacity to say "there's no sch thing as a bad area" Which is completely unfounded. Our team once walked away with no signs up and they blamed it all on us and saying we're not trying hard enough.
As of late people (doners) have gotten savvy to fundraisers and have started simply not answering the doors, as a result the number of people signing up will obviously decrease as about 90% of the doors just don't open and the 10% who do either close it right after or refuse. The company refuses to accept this is the case and provide training for this and refuse to shift the required 2 per day sign up rate.
Management
Another bunch of hypocrites who consider themselves above the normal fundraisers. I had 4 managers (or 3) 3/4 of them were amazing in the sense they did provide help and support but at the same time they still spewed the same company crap. The other 1 however outright hated me. I ended up working a shift with this manager and got sent home as I was unwell, Basically i was near about sneezing on the people who opened the doors. The manager refused to believe me till I said I really couldn't continue, I even told the manager to go ahead and ask the other members of my team (obviously they weren't asked as its better to say I lied than discover the truth). During the time we had our allotted lunch break (5.30-6) but the manager didnt even bother giving us a 10 minute break so we could recover from walking around and walking up hills (something every team leader gives out as they understand how harsh the job is). A quick 5 minutes (so the manager could get a smoke) and then back to work.
I got called into the office the next day I was working and suddenly got told my scores were crap (a false number was shown to me as well, one which the minute I left the office calculated and saw the manager had PURPOSELY lowered the number). I got put on Peer review and In all honesty it made me so mad as there were people within the office who had worse scores than me. Basically I got picked on because I wasn't liked and no one was there to help me out.
issues with doners and fundraisers
On the off chance you get called in with a complaint or somehow the doner decides you were forceful when you were not. Good Luck. The Doner will be right and you'll be disciplined. But remember if you're scoring high you'll let off with a stern talking to!
The normal fundraisers and team members
Amazing people. I don't have words to describe the amount of caring and amazing people you wil meet in this job. The people are the only reason the small minority who do stay, decide to stay.
TL
R version.The management sucks, the company lie, the company as a whole is shifty but the people (who you'll work with) are cool.
What’s the point I was refused this job AFTER already being offered a job role. Reasons for refusing because during the video dialogue I couldn’t get my words out quick enough due to my stutter and dyslexia I was contunuesly pushed after many times saying I couldn’t do it. I hsd then said we work for a charity to help people like me but then you refuse is like giving a man in a wheel chair a job nd saying he can’t have it cos I have to take the stairs REAL FUNDRASING DOESNT DO NOTHING FOR US JUST THEMSELVES
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