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The individual student vs. the uni's reputation

I opened this thread in the debate forum because I would like to have your views on what an individual student can do with, without or against alone the reputation and quality of the university she or he attends.

On the one hand, we know about numerous elite university students landing a safe job just because of the uni's reputation.

On the other hand, students from some normal universities will never be able to aim at certain positions/dreams/paths because of a predetermined lack of educational quality (let's try to be honest here).

Can a student develop himself independently of the reputation and the educational quality of her or his university?

Reply 1

Giliwoo

Get a first and PLENTY of experience. An influential benefactor will help. But I won't pretend this doesn't affect one's prospects. It also depends on the degree: A law graduate will almost always be in demnand irrespective of where s/he obtained the degree.

Reply 2

TheEntertainer

OP

1

Okay, I can understand the job market.

But what about the academic side?

What about ambitious students full of expectations from a subject totally loose their enthusiasm and motivation to hold on to a university?

e.g. a computer science student who doesn't have access to the latest hi-tech facilities vs. a computer science student at MIT with all the modern technology, motivated environment, latest inventions, etc. ?

Reply 3

Arminius

14

I allways have though that the unis rep will add to your chances but not make them.

For example good work experiance could count 5 points, going to oxbridge could give you 3 points. Going to tvu could give you 1 point. So someone from tvu with great experiance could have 6 and still outlcass someone from oxbridge but with only 5 points...

if you see what i mean.

I do think in some circles people discriminate based on uni (for example, only applications from oxbridge are considered) and i think thats wrong. But clearly what uni you go to effect the the academic standard you were up against and its only fair employers rank certain unis above others. Just as long as they don't form the attitude that it would be "impossible" for someone suitable to come from a poor rep uni.

Reply 4

known

Of course it will be easier for students with access to all the latest facilities, the best atmosphere, and so on. That doesn't mean it can't be done with lesser facilities, but inevitably there are some people who would have developed further had they been in a better environment.

Reply 5

username68316

3

I think there are many factors that affect a students chances of success in older life. By success here, i mean getting into a profession where one can fundamentally alter society or make a difference i.e. judge etc

Sadly, as was revealed in the independent back in july, the type of school you went to as a child seriously affects your chances of success. Likewise the university you attend, as you mentioned.

But i think it is possible to work your way up, given determination and a method. Although sadly this way is less prevalent than the default way.

Reply 6

Giliwoo

Again the quality of your degree is unfrotunately often different depending on your university.

Reply 7

NJA

20

TheEntertainer

. .. Can a student develop himself independently of the reputation and the educational quality of her or his university?

If you want a career/job that required the best brain, most companies are smart enough to realise that just cos u went to Oxbridge doesn't mean you are neccessarily better that one who didn't.

If the job depends on who you know or the your accent, then yes, you may be at a disadvantage, but would you want a job like that ?

Reply 8

prince of persia

Giliwoo

Get a first and PLENTY of experience. An influential benefactor will help. But I won't pretend this doesn't affect one's prospects. It also depends on the degree: A law graduate will almost always be in demnand irrespective of where s/he obtained the degree.

Not really, infact law is one of those circles where which uni you went to really does matter. This is the case with magic circle firms obv more than others, but by no means does getting a 'law degree' guarantee you a job...

Reply 9

L i b

19

prince of persia

Not really, infact law is one of those circles where which uni you went to really does matter. This is the case with magic circle firms obv more than others, but by no means does getting a 'law degree' guarantee you a job...

Indeed. Plus even getting a 2:2 in a law degree is effectively considered failure.

Reply 10

Giliwoo

prince of persia

Not really, infact law is one of those circles where which uni you went to really does matter. This is the case with magic circle firms obv more than others, but by no means does getting a 'law degree' guarantee you a job...

I disagree. A law degree will allow you to work in nearly any non-science field. Sure, where you get your degree to some extent determines what you can do with that law degree e.g. the bar, the civil service and government. But I am firmly convinced that Law graduates don't tend to be as "unemployable" as many arts graduates end up.

Reply 11

prince of persia

Giliwoo

I disagree. A law degree will allow you to work in nearly any non-science field. Sure, where you get your degree to some extent determines what you can do with that law degree e.g. the bar, the civil service and government. But I am firmly convinced that Law graduates don't tend to be as "unemployable" as many arts graduates end up.

As the person above stated, a dodgy degree even from a respectable uni will effectively make you 'unemployable' in law circles. The debate on this thread is whether the individual can trump the uni; all i'm saying is with particular reference to law, when the differences in uni standards are really quite far apart, this is not really possible.

Reply 12

Figaro123

I've often heard that getting anything less than a 2:2 at oxbridge is considered a wasted opportunity and will severely damage your employment prospects.

The quality of university is often a reflection of the academic quality of the student in question, but not always - I know plenty of people who chose their universities for reasons other than the university's academic record. They should be only one of a number of factors taken into consideration, as stated by Zebedee back in the 4th post of this thread.

Reply 13

Howard

5

TheEntertainer

Okay, I can understand the job market.

But what about the academic side?

What about ambitious students full of expectations from a subject totally loose their enthusiasm and motivation to hold on to a university?

e.g. a computer science student who doesn't have access to the latest hi-tech facilities vs. a computer science student at MIT with all the modern technology, motivated environment, latest inventions, etc. ?

The academic side presents a problem in my opinion. Now, not to blow my own trumpet, but I'm an educated man; I have three degrees, two bachelors and a masters, and I'm now working on my second masters. But, the possibility of any future in academia is a remote one. Who's going to take me seriously with a BSc(Hons) in quantity surveying from the University of Central Lancashire, an LLb(Hons) in law (by distance learning) from the Open University, and an LLM (also by distance learning) from Northumbria? I'm hardly destined to be an Oxford don am I? (Not that this worries me very much since I no doubt earn quite a bit more than an Oxford don anyway!)

Reply 14

Longshoredrift80

10

LibertineNorth

Indeed. Plus even getting a 2:2 in a law degree is effectively considered failure.

And firsts are like f**king gold-dust. At least where I am. Most people seem to be aiming to get a 2:1.

Reply 15

Merovingian

Howard

The academic side presents a problem in my opinion. Now, not to blow my own trumpet, but I'm an educated man; I have three degrees, two bachelors and a masters, and I'm now working on my second masters. But, the possibility of any future in academia is a remote one. Who's going to take me seriously with a BSc(Hons) in quantity surveying from the University of Central Lancashire, an LLb(Hons) in law (by distance learning) from the Open University, and an LLM (also by distance learning) from Northumbria? I'm hardly destined to be an Oxford don am I? (Not that this worries me very much since I no doubt earn quite a bit more than an Oxford don anyway!)

Isn't it time you got a real job now? :rolleyes:

Reply 16

L i b

19

JonathanH

And firsts are like f**king gold-dust. At least where I am. Most people seem to be aiming to get a 2:1.

Well put. A 2:1 seems a far more reasonable expectation for me. I am unfortunately cursed with a great measure of laziness, which is chiefly to blame for my participation on this board when I'm supposed to be reading through the North Sea Continental Shelf cases...

Oh well.

Reply 17

Longshoredrift80

10

I have 150 pages of European Union Law to be reading. I read 1.5 pages on the coach the other day and promptly nodded off for an hour.

Reply 18

City bound

JonathanH

I have 150 pages of European Union Law to be reading. I read 1.5 pages on the coach the other day and promptly nodded off for an hour.

I'm feeling tired just reading that post.......

Reply 19

Howard

5

Merovingian

Isn't it time you got a real job now? :rolleyes:

Real job? Nah! Fu** that! Seriously though, two of them are distance learning degrees as is the one I'm working on now. This allows me to study without being a full time university dosser. :smile:

The individual student vs. the uni's reputation

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