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Difference between the terms "nation" and "state"

Basically I am doing an essay on how modern states fostered a sense of national identity and while I don't require help with the writing of the actual essay itself, I was wondering if someone could clarify to me what the difference between the terms "nation" and "state" is .

As far as I am aware, a "state" refers to the mechanisms used to legitimise a political community. For example Max Weber I think said that a "state" has a monopoly on the ability to carry out violence to maintain law and order. In terms of "nation" my understanding is that it is a group of people with shared cultural values as well as shared duties and responsibilities to one another.

This means that while most territories today are "nation-states", it is in fact possible to have a nation without a state. Is this correct? I just wanted to double check because a lot of the books I am reading refer to nations and so if this is correct I know they may be referring to groups of people and not actual territories.
Hi

I have moved your thread to the History "study-help" forum as you have more chance of getting helpful replies in this forum.
Ok thanks 😄
Reply 3
State is the physical manifestation of a 'nation' which all its tangible elements- geographical area, population, army, diplomatic offices, police forces. Nation is the abstract and the philosophical term that is given to a group of people having a feeling of national oneness and consciousness among themselves. Yes a there can be a 'nation' without being a state. But in that case it should be nation ruled by or forcibly occupied by another nation.
That's fantastic. Thank you :-)
Reply 5
hey. Want to ask you something. Which level are you in? BA or A-levels? I am from India and want to come for Masters in UK. In India subjects like History and like are not taught very well and the syllabus is very archaic. Can you suggest me some books which you studied for topics like European History, Global History, Modern History and Contemporary History at the undergraduate level?
Reply 6
Original post by badgerdawkins
That's fantastic. Thank you :-)

hey. Want to ask you something. Which level are you in? BA or A-levels? I am from India and want to come for Masters in UK. In India subjects like History and like are not taught very well and the syllabus is very archaic. Can you suggest me some books which you studied for topics like European History, Global History, Modern History and Contemporary History at the undergraduate level?
Reply 7
Original post by badgerdawkins
Basically I am doing an essay on how modern states fostered a sense of national identity and while I don't require help with the writing of the actual essay itself, I was wondering if someone could clarify to me what the difference between the terms "nation" and "state" is .

As far as I am aware, a "state" refers to the mechanisms used to legitimise a political community. For example Max Weber I think said that a "state" has a monopoly on the ability to carry out violence to maintain law and order. In terms of "nation" my understanding is that it is a group of people with shared cultural values as well as shared duties and responsibilities to one another.

This means that while most territories today are "nation-states", it is in fact possible to have a nation without a state. Is this correct? I just wanted to double check because a lot of the books I am reading refer to nations and so if this is correct I know they may be referring to groups of people and not actual territories.


I think you showed a very clear grasp of the definitions in your OP; it's the context you should always try to be aware of when you read the words in textbooks or articles. I think the terms are sometimes used interchangeably—witness words like 'national' and 'international'—so try and pick up clues from nearby paragraphs in the text to see if the stricter definitions are being adhered to. I just spotted the 'may be' in your last sentence so I guess you are aware of this anyway.
Original post by badgerdawkins
Basically I am doing an essay on how modern states fostered a sense of national identity and while I don't require help with the writing of the actual essay itself, I was wondering if someone could clarify to me what the difference between the terms "nation" and "state" is .

As far as I am aware, a "state" refers to the mechanisms used to legitimise a political community. For example Max Weber I think said that a "state" has a monopoly on the ability to carry out violence to maintain law and order. In terms of "nation" my understanding is that it is a group of people with shared cultural values as well as shared duties and responsibilities to one another.

This means that while most territories today are "nation-states", it is in fact possible to have a nation without a state. Is this correct? I just wanted to double check because a lot of the books I am reading refer to nations and so if this is correct I know they may be referring to groups of people and not actual territories.

Question. Why Cenk Uygar?
Reply 9
Original post by Mrig
hey. Want to ask you something. Which level are you in? BA or A-levels? I am from India and want to come for Masters in UK. In India subjects like History and like are not taught very well and the syllabus is very archaic. Can you suggest me some books which you studied for topics like European History, Global History, Modern History and Contemporary History at the undergraduate level?


Mrig, I took a year of International History and Politics at undergraduate level. I remember being impressed by Michael Howard's short text War in European History: it was one of the books that made things click for me. I don't recall the other books prescribed by the tutors.

A terrific book I'm reading now, which may well be part of some undergrad or postgrad courses, is JM Roberts' The New Penguin History of the World (after Roberts passed away the latest edition has been taken over by Odd Arne Westad). Roberts wrote with great authority and his exposition is really beguiling (if you are into dryish textbooks, like me).
Original post by Lionheart96
Question. Why Cenk Uygar?


I didn't know what to put as my profile picture and I like watching the Young Turks :tongue:
You might like to look up Charles Tilly's work :smile:
Original post by Mrig
hey. Want to ask you something. Which level are you in? BA or A-levels? I am from India and want to come for Masters in UK. In India subjects like History and like are not taught very well and the syllabus is very archaic. Can you suggest me some books which you studied for topics like European History, Global History, Modern History and Contemporary History at the undergraduate level?


It's hard to know exactly what to recommend as I don't use that many textbooks for my course. Christopher Bayly's The Birth of the Modern World 1780-1914 gives a good overview of modern historical developments as do any of Eric Hobsbawms the "Age of" books (In chronological order: the Age of Revolution, the Age of Capital, the Age of Empire and the Age of Extremes).

Also, if you are interested in the historical discipline generally or are interested to know how to study for a degree, try Palgrave Study Skills: Studying History by Jeremy Black and Donald M Macraild, as this gives you tips on studying history and also tells you why historians study history and about historiographical developments. Take their advice with a pinch of salt however. At one point they say that you will have to sometimes read books cover to cover but for a first year of an undergraduate degree at least you don't need to !

Hope that helps, let me know if there were any types of books in particular you were looking for and I will see what I can advise.
Original post by badgerdawkins
I didn't know what to put as my profile picture and I like watching the Young Turks :tongue:


Well going by your profile name I would suggest either a badger or Richard Dawkins. Maybe a combination of the two :wink:. Also TyT is a bit like tmz really. They do way too much celebrity trash stories. And their coverage of the Ukraine crisis was as bad as the mainstream media's. I did like their interview with stephen cohen though
Original post by badgerdawkins
I didn't know what to put as my profile picture and I like watching the Young Turks :tongue:


Oh... them! I thought you meant the Ottoman positivist guys. I was like, they've been dead for about 90 years!
Reply 15
Original post by badgerdawkins
It's hard to know exactly what to recommend as I don't use that many textbooks for my course. Christopher Bayly's The Birth of the Modern World 1780-1914 gives a good overview of modern historical developments as do any of Eric Hobsbawms the "Age of" books (In chronological order: the Age of Revolution, the Age of Capital, the Age of Empire and the Age of Extremes).

Also, if you are interested in the historical discipline generally or are interested to know how to study for a degree, try Palgrave Study Skills: Studying History by Jeremy Black and Donald M Macraild, as this gives you tips on studying history and also tells you why historians study history and about historiographical developments. Take their advice with a pinch of salt however. At one point they say that you will have to sometimes read books cover to cover but for a first year of an undergraduate degree at least you don't need to !

Hope that helps, let me know if there were any types of books in particular you were looking for and I will see what I can advise.

Hey, thanks Badgerdawkins. I would also like to share with u all about a fantastic book that I have read recently- Niall Ferguson's 'Civilization". u might read it sometime if u get hold of it. Will surely check out the books you suggested.
Reply 16
Original post by Mrig
Hey, thanks Badgerdawkins. I would also like to share with u all about a fantastic book that I have read recently- Niall Ferguson's 'Civilization". u might read it sometime if u get hold of it. Will surely check out the books you suggested.

Have heard of book like Early Modern europe by Euan Cameron, A Short History of Europe by TCW Blanning and Modern Europe by carlton JH Hayes? These were the books taught to us in our European history paper

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