Not sure about Scottish uni's but in England you have to pay

The only one being xenophobic here is you. Governments are generally above xenophobia - it's about economics. Scotland's universities can't afford to give the plethora of English students free tuition. Stop making it out to be an anti-English attack, it's no more so than it would be anti-Welsh and anti-Northern Irish one and the assertion that it is anyway is ridiculous.

"The SNP government white paper on independence set out plans to continue charging English students attending Scottish universities tuition fees while having free education for those from other EU nations."

Of course it's an anti English attack - can you not read?

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Reply 161

justag

11

Original post by Dylank96

I've already gotten into this debate, although more of an argument, with you. It's not fair but this is what happens when you have two different governments. Don't attack the one you perceive to be doing the right thing, continue to take it up with your own one.

Thaaank you, jeez. Finally got the answer out of you too. Reluctantly of course.

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Reply 162

Dylank96

11

Original post by justag

"The SNP government white paper on independence set out plans to continue charging English students attending Scottish universities tuition fees while having free education for those from other EU nations."

Of course it's an anti English attack - can you not read?

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If you're going to go round in circles then stop quoting me. It's not based on a dislike of England but about Scottish universities not being able to give the many English students who study here free tuition. Economics, not xenophobia. If you disagree then fine, stop constantly telling me that you do.

Reply 163

Dylank96

11

Original post by justag

Thaaank you, jeez. Finally got the answer out of you too. Reluctantly of course.

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You never posed that question to me before so your apparent relentlessness is completely unjustified. I never said it was fair that you should pay and we don't (although some still do like myself), just that you shouldn't be attacking Scotland for it in the disgusting, and childish, way you have been thus far.

Reply 164

justag

11

Original post by Dylank96

If you're going to go round in circles then stop quoting me. It's not based on a dislike of England but about Scottish universities not being able to give the many English students who study here free tuition. Economics, not xenophobia. If you disagree then fine, stop constantly telling me that you do.

If it's not based on a dislike of England then why propose to give Scottish and EU students free tuition in an independent Scotland, but not England?

England would have the same relationship with Scotland as France or Germany in this scenario. So Scotland can afford to fund an Italian or Spanish student, but suddenly funds magically dry up when English students come into the picture? I think not. If it were about economics they'd charge tuition fees for all, just like England do - fairly.

There's no reason or just cause to prevent English students having the same rights as any other EU student and to try and discriminate like that is abhorrent.

My point isn't that I want English students to be able to milk the system like Scottish students can and get free tuition. It's that English students have the right to be treated fairly. The current system in Scotland is not doing that. It discriminates against the English. This is Scotland's fault.

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(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 165

Copperknickers

15

Original post by justag

And no, SNP having majority in Scotland and the whole idiotic devolution system would prevent the Torys doing a whole lot. Unless the whole system was revamped, which would take a good long while and was never in their manifesto. Plus the SNP would block everything. Thanks Scotland. Screwing over England yet again.
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By what mechanism would the SNP prevent the Tories from taking away tuition fees? That makes absolutely no sense. The Tories have total control of education in England, if they want to abolish tuition fees tomorrow they can do it. It's nothing to do with Scotland.

Reply 166

justag

11

Original post by Copperknickers

By what mechanism would the SNP prevent the Tories from taking away tuition fees? That makes absolutely no sense. The Tories have total control of education in England, if they want to abolish tuition fees tomorrow they can do it. It's nothing to do with Scotland.

By voting no to any reforms in the house of commons. Scottish MPs regularly interfere with English affairs as stated many times in this thread. Learn a bit about politics first.

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Reply 167

Copperknickers

15

Original post by justag

By voting no to any reforms in the house of commons. Scottish MPs regularly interfere with English affairs as stated many times in this thread. Learn a bit about politics first.

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How does changing English tution fees constitute reforming the house of commons?

If you're talking about reform generally rather than tuition fees now, then that's a different matter, and the SNP are rightly committed to blocking unsuitable solutions to the West Lothian question (the reason being most of the proposed solutions would be extremely unfair for Scotland). What is really needed is a separate English parliament.

Reply 168

justag

11

Original post by Copperknickers

How does changing English tution fees constitute reforming the house of commons?

If you're talking about reform generally rather than tuition fees now, then that's a different matter, and the SNP are rightly committed to blocking unsuitable solutions to the West Lothian question (the reason being most of the proposed solutions would be extremely unfair for Scotland). What is really needed is a separate English parliament.

New bills. :colonhash:

not reforming the whole house of commons, c'mon.

Yes an English parliament is very much needed.

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Reply 169

Bv12827

8

Original post by justag

Still not justifying the system. Doesn't make it correct. Of course you're Scottish, if it's ok for you but not most other people the system must be fine! Inconsiderate idiot, I'm not surprised.

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We know that their is a fault with the system but it is best we can have, your typical
If we can't have free tuition nobody can
Attitude is ridiculous and the fact that you are steriotyping Scottish people and calling me an idiot shows that you have nothing better to say than anti-Scot rubbish

Reply 170

applicationa

2

The English have a better system IMO. The amount offered in living costs loan is pitiful compared to what you get in England, more students in Scotland drop out for financial reasons. English universities also have better bursaries, funded by the higher fees. Scottish universities are struggling because the amount the Scottish Govt gives them per student is the £3k they would have gotten per student under the old fees, there isn't enough public money to raise it to £9k per student but fees are politically toxic, so Scottish universities are stuck. The prestigious ones can manage by charging international students a lot of money to attend, and with generous alumni to pay for facilities, which is just widening the gap between old universities and new universities, when we should be closing the gap. Less debt sounds good, but at least the English system is encouraging social mobility.

Reply 171

justag

11

Original post by Conlyn

We know that their is a fault with the system but it is best we can have, your typical
If we can't have free tuition nobody can
Attitude is ridiculous and the fact that you are steriotyping Scottish people and calling me an idiot shows that you have nothing better to say than anti-Scot rubbish

Ridiculous to you because you're Scottish. I've made plenty of good points, I just also have that to say too.

Reply 172

Lambisco

Original post by justag

Yes exactly. I'm an EU citizen I should have the same tuition fee rights as any other EU student. You didn't have to come to England, you chose to pay fees. As things stand now, English students don't even get the option, which is clearly not fair. If you don't like it, study in Scotland.

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England used to have free tuition up until 1998, the Tory government started an inquiry into British higher education funding, the result of this meant tuition fees were implemented by the New Labour government in 1998.

As education is a devolved matter in Scotland, a libdem/labour coalition decided to start a free tuition policy which the SNP have continued and have no intention of stopping. The reason EU students receive free tuition is due to EU laws, as neither Scotland, England, Wales & NI are members of the EU in their own right this means that anyone from the rUK is not entitled to free education in Scotland.

How about stop moaning about Scotland and instead get out and vote(if you're too young then you can still get involved) for a party that wants to bring in free tuition - Labour. The moaning and excuses about this from the rUK is just tedious. The only country in the UK which does not have a devolved government is England, don't be mistaken, Westminster is the British government.

Not sure about Scottish uni's but in England you have to pay

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